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skiorclimb
Jan 6, 2004, 10:09 AM
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I am just starting to ice climb, my first real go at it will be this sunday. I was wondering if it would be best to go leash-less right from the start, or to start off with leashes.
Their are a couple of reasons that I am asking. I don't know if leash-less is just a different style, or the realm of the elite. I am under the impression(just from reading climbing mags)that leash-less is superior, offering more versatility and such. I also read an article about a competitive ice climber who found leash-less easier.
Well let me know what you all think.
Thank you
Scott
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jkarns
Jan 6, 2004, 2:30 PM
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I think you'll find that it is situation dependent. Long stretched of vertical waterfall ice will definately benefit from the use of leashes. Steep, gymnastic mixed lines are where leashless climbing is beneficial. For now, stick with the leashes! You'll have enough other stuff to be thinking about as you learn ice climbing; no need to drop a tool!
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ninjaslut
Jan 6, 2004, 2:35 PM
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In reply to: I am just starting to ice climb, my first real go at it will be this sunday.
Me, too! Let's hope the Auburn Ice Canyon freezes up nicely.
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e_wire
Jan 6, 2004, 2:42 PM
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I've ice climbed about 2 or 3 times last year and really got into the sport. I started this year leash less straight from the start. I must confess that I love it. More movement options then with leashes. Get use to leash less now and you'll never go to leashes again... I've tried, just for the fun of it, climbing with leashes last week, and found the leashes more of nuisance then anything else. I'd say go leash less now!
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csoles
Jan 6, 2004, 4:04 PM
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Most people who tell you to use leashes have never tried true leashless tools. It's a crock to say they are only for elites or hard mixed climbing. Of course that's all the mags want to talk about these days but you should ignore them.
Starting off with leashless tools for ice is the smart thing to do. Easier, less tiring, warmer, more fun. But the caveat is you must use tools designed for leashless; all of the retrofittted "normal" models work very poorly sans leash.
If you get into alpine climbing later, then you'll want other tools. But it's better to start leashless on ice and add the specialty tools later rather than hamper yourself with leashes while learning.
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skiorclimb
Jan 6, 2004, 8:18 PM
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Thank You for all the replies! I can't belive how excited I am to be starting out in ice climbing. I was also wondering if any of you could suggest any instructional books that focus on water-ice or mixed climbing techniques.
Ninjaslut, are you going to Auburn with the RI Rock Gym trip?
If so I will see you their!
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brianthew
Jan 6, 2004, 8:29 PM
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For books, check out Ice: Tools and Techniques by Duane Raleigh. It only covers leashed tools, and some of gear info is dated, but everything else is still good. Covers technique, condition assessment, gear tips, leading, and rapping/descending.
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maldaly
Jan 6, 2004, 8:49 PM
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skiorclimb,
Good question. The biggest dis-service that has been done to leashless climbing is the hype stacked on it by the mags and companies leading you to think it's for experts only. Bullshit. Here's my story:
It was my first time ice climbing in 4 years and the first time I had a chance to climb with my prosthetic foot, err, crampon. I let caution rule and TR'd the first pitch of the Designator with leashes. It worked fine but wasn't too surprised that I was a bit pumped when I got to the top. The ice was really featured and totally picked out so when it was time for lap 2 I figured, "What the hell?" and went up with a single leashless Madame Hook. Life was sweet there. I was able to match and swap hands so I could reach up right or left to pinch an icicle, layback an edge or jam a slot. I could mantle on the "Joy Knob", and at one point, I hooked it in my armpit to bag a no-hands rest! Eventually I fell off, but the light bulb had switched on. Leashless climbing had turned a hacked up pillar cruise into a complex, fluid and insanely fun climb.
Even though I am fat, out of shape and climbing with a peg-leg, I do have almost 25 years of ice climbing under my belt so I'm probably not the best person to judge a first-time leashless experience. At the Ouray Ice Festival (Jan-03) Stephanie Sage, one of our Stonewear Designers, tried ice climbing for the first time. She's in good shape but admits that she's "not so good" on the rock and only top-ropes 5.9. Seth Murray, our Trango Product Manager, walked her to the edge of the gorge, put a pair of leashless Hooks in her hands, lowered her off a 100' pillar and said, "Go for it." No instructions. No hints. No shouted beta. Just, "Go for it". (That's not the way I'd introduce someone to ice climbing, but each to his own. I think the belay was probably good.) Well, 45 minutes later Steph topped out with a big grin on her face and said, "That was fun!"
So don't be scared by the leashless thing. Just do it in a safe situation at first so if you drop a tool you can retrieve it without an epic. And have fun!
Malcolm
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thelawgoddess
Jan 10, 2004, 5:16 AM
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i'm with e_wire. i pretty much learned to climb with leashless tools and the times i've used tools with leashes i found the leashes more annoying than anything else. it's definitely not a tool for only the elite; it's just a different tool. i actually use the grivel indoor leash with my leashless tools just to keep from dropping them off route (you can't hang on the leashes or anything; they're just like tethers), but i've never actually dropped my tools. try it; you'll probably love it! :D
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rossgoddard
Jan 23, 2004, 3:20 AM
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try climbing leashless with a non-leashless tool. Your technique will improve magically. I climb leashless with my normal quarks, not ergo quarks frequently, and have really felt a difference in my climbing. I have also climbed leashless off of shrikes- it really gets you thinking about energy conservation and tool placement
try it, it will help you get real good real fast
-harrison
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brianthew
Jan 23, 2004, 6:22 PM
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In reply to: try climbing leashless with a non-leashless tool. Your technique will improve magically. I climb leashless with my normal quarks, not ergo quarks frequently, and have really felt a difference in my climbing. I have also climbed leashless off of shrikes- it really gets you thinking about energy conservation and tool placement try it, it will help you get real good real fast -harrison
Yes, do this. I did this with my Rages, and my technique improved quite rapidly. Though, with the Rages it is a bit easier since they have the massive pinky catch.
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csoles
Jan 23, 2004, 6:36 PM
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Just realize that it's in no way the same as using true leashless tools. Pinky hooks are not a substitute for a proper design. Sure it's a decent way to work on technique, so is climbing without tools (wear wool gloves). But you will be working harder and not get the full benefits.
BTW the R&I review was totally wrong on the Grivel, used an outdated Simond, erred on the Trango (remove hammer), and ignored the Camp (which is quite good).
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shocker
Jan 23, 2004, 9:18 PM
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Another vote for going leashless right off the bat. I couldn't imagine using leashes anymore.
For books Will Gadd just came out with a new one that covers ice and mixed. Very good instructional book. Can't remember the name though. Plus he's from the Canadian Rockies so you know he was schooled in THE mecca of ice climbing.
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scubasnyder
Jan 23, 2004, 9:22 PM
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try both see which you like better
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skiorclimb
Feb 1, 2004, 4:28 PM
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Hello again,
Thanks for the input. I finally got out there and tried ice climbing this saturday. I top roped 4 different routes at Auburn Ice Canyon. I climbed with the Quark leash-less tools mostly, however I did get to try the Shrikes(sp?) with leashes as well. I liked them both, it would really take allot more experience to decide what was best for me.
I liked the fact that you could leave the leash-less tool in a placement and use the other tool for mantling. Mostly I was just making up reasons to cross over or match because the climbs I was on were very straight forward. I did get a taste of the down side as I fell and left one of the tools a good ten feet above me in the ice. It was fun having to work my way back up with only one tool.
I hope to get back out there soon.
Thanks again,
Scott
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deleted
Deleted
Feb 1, 2004, 4:40 PM
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First I'd like to point out how consumer/mindless dribble repeated from hype in magazine articles driven this thread is. I could probably match quotes from the magazines to what has been written here.
That said, I reluctantly admit that leashless climbing is easier...the hype just may be right in this case. Who would've guessed?
glad you're psyched to try ice climbing, though!
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