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roughster
Jan 23, 2004, 4:41 AM
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I would say that more people could boulder harder if they stuck with it, just that most people get bored of pebble wrestling less than 10 feet off the ground.
/e pokes the dead horse to see if there is any life left.
Don't make me send you all to bed early without a shoe thread!
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mrme
Jan 23, 2004, 4:59 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Another total BS post, brought to you by roughster. It is laughable that you claim routes take more "skill" than boulder problems. Even your explanation to acronis indicates that your answer to the original question should have been "Yes" it is a matter of endurance. Curt Whats funny is it was you Curt who I was refering to in my respone :lol: I have nothing against bouldering, it just doesn't take as much skill as it is related to climbing a route. If you have a V3 off the ground or a V3 in the middle of a route, it will take more skill to climb the route. It is simple logic that you will be taxed by the route up to that point to some extent. You may call this "endurance" but it is not entirely endurance. There is "strategy" where to shake, how much gas to give a move, dyno or static, etc... all that come with routes, not so with boulder problems since you generally get right down to the business. Also as Dk eluded to, there is a mental component that is associated with route climbing that is not present while boudlering. Sorry to offend you Curt, but its the truth and you know it.
so why is it that i can pull off 5.12a bolts and 11a trad and have top roped 12d still without doing any thing harder than v-2 v-3ish?
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roughster
Jan 23, 2004, 5:09 AM
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Most likely because you have the experience and technique to finesse your way up routes that don't tend towards power. The same moves on a boulder problem will be based on power and no amount of trickery/experience will get you through it.
Also, have you spent as much time boudlering as you have roped climbing? Quick jumps in bouldering scale are easily achieved in relatively short time versus routes. While it make take people a season to go from say 5.10 to 5.11, it is very normal for someone who takes to bouldering full time to reach V4ish range very fast, maybe a few months of solid bouldering.
It is because raw power (as the same with bodybuilding) is the easiest way to train the body to get results. Quick snap of max load, i.e. bouldering will build raw strength quickly, with that you can overcome technical difficulties opf boulder problems since often they are one move wonder sthat if you can "power" your way through that one move, your set. Routes on the other hand require technique usually for moves before, during, and after the "crux" to be successful.
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mrme
Jan 23, 2004, 5:54 AM
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thanks for the advice i will keep that in minde...though i do boulder quiet a bit thru the cooler months ...i do trad climb as much as i can.
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mrme
Jan 23, 2004, 6:10 AM
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though i tend to belive it is the mental aspect of what i am doing....i need to climb a few feet before i can get my minde working and into climbing mode....i have never been able to get into climbing mode starting out on an extremlly hard move unless there is alot of fun climbing afterwards.
and yes some of those v problems i have done are one move wonders and some are highballs actually i fell on some of the harder stuff i could probablly do it , but i get to thinking whats the point ....thats all there is to it.
i am getting to boulder more right now so maybee i will right a post in a few months about weather it is the mental aspect or power that gets most people i will get to be able to judge that question for myself better.
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collegekid
Jan 23, 2004, 7:18 AM
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Now, the question is: Which is cooler, Bouldering or route climbing?
Obviously, bouldering is cooler, because you can do crazy dynos and super overhangs, all within easy viewing distance of the onlooking crowd. Also, ropes and gear are expensive.
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curt
Jan 23, 2004, 7:31 AM
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In reply to: Now, the question is: Which is cooler, Bouldering or route climbing? Obviously, bouldering is cooler, because you can do crazy dynos and super overhangs, all within easy viewing distance of the onlooking crowd. Also, ropes and gear are expensive.
Not to mention that the ropes and gear are an admission that you are intending to fail--hence you need them.
Curt
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curt
Jan 23, 2004, 7:37 AM
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In reply to: Most likely because you have the experience and technique to finesse your way up routes that don't tend towards power. The same moves on a boulder problem will be based on power and no amount of trickery/experience will get you through it. Also, have you spent as much time boudlering as you have roped climbing? Quick jumps in bouldering scale are easily achieved in relatively short time versus routes. While it make take people a season to go from say 5.10 to 5.11, it is very normal for someone who takes to bouldering full time to reach V4ish range very fast, maybe a few months of solid bouldering. It is because raw power (as the same with bodybuilding) is the easiest way to train the body to get results. Quick snap of max load, i.e. bouldering will build raw strength quickly, with that you can overcome technical difficulties opf boulder problems since often they are one move wonder sthat if you can "power" your way through that one move, your set. Routes on the other hand require technique usually for moves before, during, and after the "crux" to be successful.
Aaron,
You keep assserting that experience, technique and finesse are the unique domain of roped climbers and that all boulderers have going for them is greater power. I'll clue you in here. I am 48 years old, can boulder V10s (that happen to suit me) and I don't get up anything these days because of absolute power. Technique, experience and skill are everything in bouldering as well.
Curt
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drkodos
Jan 23, 2004, 7:57 AM
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What a great thread and post. This is the type of excellent work that will be tough for the DIP Academy to overlook. Fanatstic work, this.
[indigo]Come One, Come All !! Verily, Ye all are welcome to attend:
[/indigo]
DIP* Corp. Presents:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~2004~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~Renaissance User Awards~~~~~~~~~
drkodos internet productions (a division of Kodoscorp)
not a sponsored event--this space available--find the hidden links
Here is what last years Ceremony Host has to say:
http://www.pscelebrities.com/alhead1.gif
"Grandpa " Al Lewis of The Munsters here.
I haven't had much work since teaming up with Fred Gwynne in that great show. Car 54 was OK but I guess was before most of your time, but I digress. When my best fiend drkodos came up to the attic and opened the coffin and asked me to host the awards, it was the biggest thing for me since my time on the Howard Stern show, or when I ran for governor.
Anyway, I get caught up with all that but I'm here telling you to particpate and attend these very prestigious awards that my very dearest friend and his academy of lunatics are hosting. Click on this very message to hop through a magical portal. Similar to that time I brewed a concoction for Marylin....
And if you see that fink, Eddie, tell him to call once in a while.
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okinawatricam
Jan 23, 2004, 8:18 AM
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What a great thread. I wondered if anyone else did climb harder then they bouldered. I am glad to hear I am not the only one.
As a long time climber, I use to boulder when I was limited on time, or at the end of the day. I searched out problems that would improve my climbing weaknesses. To say that all problems are hard, some of you seem to think this, is wrong, some are quite easy and fun. Those are often overlooked by boulderers.
I think one reason people boulder harder than they climb is that boulder problems are easier to work. An added element comes from the social scene that develops around problems. The energy is very rewarding and motivating.
Maybe bouldering seems hard because you get on harder problems than route. This is problally spcychological. But for the most part, routes are safer since you don't hit the ground. My partner loves to call "sport climbing" = "bouldering with a rope. "
Grades are subjective. Only after several seasons of climbing can you really compare them. I have actually given up and just get on what ever inspires me. Sometime they are hard, sometimes they aren't. (Boulder or routes)
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roughster
Jan 23, 2004, 2:48 PM
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In reply to: Aaron, You keep assserting that experience, technique and finesse are the unique domain of roped climbers and that all boulderers have going for them is greater power. I'll clue you in here. I am 48 years old, can boulder V10s (that happen to suit me) and I don't get up anything these days because of absolute power. Technique, experience and skill are everything in bouldering as well. Curt
Curt,
I would certianly not say that technique and finesse are the "unique" domain of roped climbing. Obviously not all problems are power based and is exactly why I would assume you threw in the that happen to suit me. Most likely the probs are nice combination of power and technique required.
If I can't take a broad brush and apply it unilaterally across a climbing "format" (bouldering/sport climbing/etc..) then in reality we should be arguing about individual problems/routes. What I am saying is not an absolute for either discpline but rather a overall general feel and stereotyping of the style of climbing.
I am sure we can at least agree that the primary focus of bouldering is power vs routes which require a much more rounded skill base (ropework, endurance, being able to sucker a friend into belaying your hangdog sessions ( :lol: ), etc... :) ) in order to succeed.
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enitine
Jan 23, 2004, 3:30 PM
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If you can climb it with your hands, its a V0... 8)
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hosh
Jan 23, 2004, 8:06 PM
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Well, bouldering and top-rope/leading are basically "different" types of climbing. I know people who can boulder pretty much anything, but can't climb anything over a 5.10. THen again, there's some people that climb at the Gym I set boulder problems at who can't do hardly any of the problems that I've set but climb everything else in the gym. It's just different.
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noodlearms
Jan 25, 2004, 1:15 AM
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In reply to: Not to mention that the ropes and gear are an admission that you are intending to fail--hence you need them.
Ah, Curt, so many intelligent posts, then this.
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curt
Jan 25, 2004, 1:20 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Not to mention that the ropes and gear are an admission that you are intending to fail--hence you need them. Ah, Curt, so many intelligent posts, then this.
That was intended as a joke. I just forgot to include one of these :lol: at the end.
Curt
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sixter
Jan 25, 2004, 3:40 AM
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Curt, Roughster, why are you going back and forth, don't you realise that some of the hardest route sends were done by some of the same people that put up the hardest boulder problems? With time and effort, either can be mastered. It's all a matter of which flavor you prefer for most people. I respect both of you, and know you both have your favored types of climbing, but give it a rest. Neither is better than the other, although I would rather boulder, trad, or top rope than clip bolts. :lol:
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curt
Jan 25, 2004, 3:56 AM
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In reply to: Curt, Roughster, why are you going back and forth......
Curt
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sixter
Jan 25, 2004, 5:18 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Curt, Roughster, why are you going back and forth...... Why? Because it is fun. If you can't argue about meaningless drivel like this on a website--what good is it? :wink: Curt
I have been chastized, and realise the errors of my ways. Come to think of it, I do enjoy all that back and forth, especially when he and bvb would go at each other... good times. Carry on.
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oklahoma_climber
Jan 25, 2004, 5:32 AM
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In reply to: Bouldering is not out of the question. Most climbers can boulder a couple of grades above route grades. For instance, I can usually climb 5.9 - 5.10 but I boulder V3.
good call. bouldering usually takes a bit more power, but the endurance is not an issue... a good v2 or v3 is a lot like a crux on a 5.10 or 5.11, but what makes it 5.11 is the crux PLUS the before and after combos. by the time someone (like vertical_reality or myself) gets to the v3 crux, i'm so pumped i may not pull it off (5.11 being out of my range), but i might do the same moves all by themselves if it were boulder problem and i was fresh.
make sense?
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fontyyy
Feb 16, 2004, 1:32 AM
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In reply to: It seems that the easiest bouldering is actually a fairly hard climb (well, hard for me, the female newbie). So until I can climb 5.10's or higher, is bouldering out of the question? I have yet to try it...
1; Just because that slab next to a named problem isn't mentioned in the guide book doesn't mean it's not a problem itself, anything you won't hurt yourself on (too much?) a yet would be a challange for YOU to climb is a boulder problem and will improve your skill and strength.
2; As your a female newbie and probably really lacking in power you might want to try and find some nice delicate slabby problems, theres loads of sub V0 to V3 or V4 slabs like this very easy one you can spend all day sliding back down around here, unfortunately 4000+ miles from you, but there must be something similar nearer.
3; Not too sure about the V system, but the B system used by the Peak Bouldering guide over here is similar but has some low end grades, however B0 is still just anything below 4c (5.8 or so) and I've done at least 1 B0 in the rain, in trainers with a backpack on! It was 5.3 at the most. It's not like there isn't a single boulder problem easier than 5.10 in the US (is it?).
4; I'm sure you can find some V0-'s that you can at least get on and have a go at and your not very high off the ground here, falling isn't an issue sometimes, it's quite practical to have 50 goes at a problem that might only be 3 moves, you'll be surprised how quickly you can send something that is 2 or 3 grades harder than you climb normally if you just stick at it.
Give it a go, you can either have fun with a traverse that is never more than 1 foot off the ground, or you can scare yourself witless with some massive highball, there's something here for everyone and no purer form of climbing anywhere, no rope, no belay, no gear, no bolts, nothing, just you and the rock.
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climbersoze
Mar 24, 2004, 3:53 PM
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OK... my next question, since we have V0 established... why not a negative bouldering scale? I mean, if I am dicking around on a short climb where TR or placing gear is overkill, but it is not a solid V0... what rating would it get... a V0- or perhaps a -V1?
++ (bored)
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vertical_reality
Mar 24, 2004, 4:29 PM
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In reply to: OK... my next question, since we have V0 established... why not a negative bouldering scale? I mean, if I am dicking around on a short climb where TR or placing gear is overkill, but it is not a solid V0... what rating would it get... a V0- or perhaps a -V1?
Just so you know, V1 - is already used in the V-scale, it's somewhere between V0 and V1, so the scale basically goes like this V0-, V0, V0+, V1-, V1, V1+, V2-, V2, etc. (sorry if you already knew that).
There's no point in grading problems below V0. Problems below this grade are easy and do not require too much climbing skill. I think V0 marks the difference between a problem that someone with no climbing experience can climb and a problem that actually requires climbing skills.
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rockfax
Mar 24, 2004, 4:43 PM
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V0......V0-....Then we have VB
"V GRADE - Developed in Hueco Tanks in texas, USA by John Sherman ('Verm' to his mates, hence the V). Gaining popularity world wide although somewhat lacking in the lower grades. Recently this has been extended by adding the + and - to the V0 grade and even further by Mick Ryan in the Bishop area, by adding the VB grade ('Beginners')."
http://www.rockfax.com/publications/bgrades.html
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rockfax
Mar 24, 2004, 4:45 PM
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And here we have a beginners green circuit at the Happy Boulders, from VB to V0.
http://www.rockfax.com/publications/miniguides/item.php?id=25
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keinangst
Mar 24, 2004, 4:46 PM
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V0 means initial velocity...i.e., the point right before you fall off that 25' highball. When you hit the ground, that would likely be V1, depending on the analysis.
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