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bumblie
Jan 30, 2004, 2:05 PM
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I've always thought that when it comes to personality development, it's a 50/50 split.
Regarding intelligence and athleticism, natural ability accounts for over 70 percent.
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overlord
Jan 30, 2004, 2:08 PM
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that depends on who you ask.
i agree that intelligence is mostly nature, personality is nurture.
sports diffrer a lot. you MUSt have good genes to be a top sprinter, but you can probably do alot with practice in endureance sports like long distance running.
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arrettinator
Jan 30, 2004, 2:13 PM
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Nature would win.
Nurture is too passive aggressive.
Nature is just aggressive. :roll:
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meataxe
Jan 30, 2004, 7:33 PM
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I think you don't give nature enough credit when it comes to personality. You will often see siblings who are very opposite.
I know it is not considered PC, but some people are "just born bad".
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drkodos
Jan 30, 2004, 7:48 PM
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In reply to: I think you don't give nature enough credit when it comes to personality. You will often see siblings who are very opposite.
This does not neccessarily indicate anything. One may choose a different path in response to the others presence. That would still hold the nurture side to be of great nfluence.
Greater minds than those present here have decided that it is clearly a mixture of many factors, with each individual case having more or less influence derived from any single factor. This is to such a degree, that no conclusive statement could be made as a generalization as to one (nature or nuture) being more consequential.
Whichever side of this overly simplified bifurcation one sits upon, it is always easy to find supportive evidence to make one's case, and to knock down oppositional strawmen.
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bumblie
Jan 30, 2004, 8:09 PM
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In reply to: Whichever side of this overly simplified bifurcation one sits upon, it is always easy to find supportive evidence to make one's case, and to knock down oppositional strawmen.
Them's some big words, cowboy. Purty, too. Where'd you get your learnin' at.
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bumblie
Jan 30, 2004, 8:14 PM
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bi·fur·cate ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bfr-kt, b-fûr-)
v. bi·fur·cat·ed, bi·fur·cat·ing, bi·fur·cates
v. tr.
To divide into two parts or branches.
v. intr.
To separate into two parts or branches; fork.
adj. (-kt, -kt)
Forked or divided into two parts or branches, as the Y-shaped styles of certain flowers.
I just had to go look it up. Now it's in my repertoire so I can bewilder those who try to besmirch me.
Thanks Doc
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j_ung
Jan 30, 2004, 8:17 PM
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I only besmirch those who deserve a sound besmirching. What a weird word. :)
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bumblie
Jan 30, 2004, 8:20 PM
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In reply to: What a weird word. :)
Probably the byproduce of over-active nurturing. :roll:
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winter
Jan 30, 2004, 8:24 PM
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Nature all the way!
I think nurture only enhances, or subdues someone's potential for evilness or whatehave you.....
Serial killers are born that way, nurture just decides when it comes out, or if at all.
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pehperboy
Jan 30, 2004, 8:43 PM
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In reply to: Serial killers are born that way, nurture just decides when it comes out, or if at all.
Ya, and if they don't fulfil their potential as serial killers, they become corporate execs and managers.
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brianthew
Jan 30, 2004, 8:45 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Serial killers are born that way, nurture just decides when it comes out, or if at all. Ya, and if they don't fulfil their potential as serial killers, they become corporate execs and managers.
Or computer scientists....
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onbelay_osu
Jan 30, 2004, 9:52 PM
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....and the debate goes on.....
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drkodos
Jan 30, 2004, 9:58 PM
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In reply to: ....and the debate goes on.....
only among the ignorant.
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alwaysforward
Jan 30, 2004, 11:33 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I think you don't give nature enough credit when it comes to personality. You will often see siblings who are very opposite. This does not neccessarily indicate anything. One may choose a different path in response to the others presence. That would still hold the nurture side to be of great nfluence. Greater minds than those present here have decided that it is clearly a mixture of many factors, with each individual case having more or less influence derived from any single factor. This is to such a degree, that no conclusive statement could be made as a generalization as to one (nature or nuture) being more consequential. Whichever side of this overly simplified bifurcation one sits upon, it is always easy to find supportive evidence to make one's case, and to knock down oppositional strawmen.
Why don't you just post this as the 2nd post on every new thread. Seriously, it's a discussion. It's for fun.
And, nurture all the way bizitches. Look at marines, obviously people can be taught to be evil. Human nature is bs.
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drkodos
Jan 30, 2004, 11:48 PM
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In reply to: Look at marines, obviously people can be taught to be evil. Human nature is bs.
You have some serious baggage.
Good luck with therapy!
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meataxe
Jan 31, 2004, 12:00 AM
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In reply to: And, nurture all the way bizitches. Look at marines, obviously people can be taught to be evil. Human nature is bs.
Jeffery Dahmer had a normal middle class upbringing. He was an evil, psycho killer freak.
OTOH, lots of marines learn to grunt and shoot and kill and stuff, then can leave the service and lead normal lives without tearing the wings off flies. In fact, wasn't Scott Ritter a former marine?
I believe people don't give enough credit to those parts of our brain that evolved over millions of years as hunter-gatherers. The human brain didn't suddenly appear at the beginning of recorded history. Not during the PC 80's either. We have have changed very little since the beginning of civilization--we just wear different clothes and try to act all sophisticated-like.
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alwaysforward
Jan 31, 2004, 1:21 AM
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OK, last post was mostly a joke.
My point is this: human nature is something we don't have a grasp of, and, as a whole is generally ethnocentric. Think outside the middle-class, 21st century, westernized, industrialized, socialized, patriarchal, etc etc box. Many things you take for granted as natural are most likely simply part of your culture.
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meataxe
Jan 31, 2004, 3:27 AM
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I don't disagree with the nurture argument, just the extent that nurture has eclipsed nature in modern times.
I wouldn't be so bold as to say exactly what the split is re: nature/nurture. 50/50... 60/40... it's not something that can be quatified readily, if at all.
What I do know is that there has been a modern bias toward nurture. I think it is influenced by Freud and the idea that modern problems can be traced to a trauma in childhood and that sort of thing. Also, there is a (justifiable to some degree) reaction to eugenics and institutionalized racial descrimination in the form of apartheid, nazi Germany, slavery, ethnic cleansing, etc.
The nurture bias is also convenient for "experts" to promote their various theories. eg: "If you put your child in our program, he will turn out a certified genius." Whatever laudable goals of the "nurture" camp may exist, it is wrong to ignore that which is inate.
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alwaysforward
Jan 31, 2004, 7:45 AM
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Heh.
Businesses market nurture.
Governments market nature.
Another point; if human nature does in fact account for the majority of our behaviour, but we cannot pin-point its role exactly, the labeling of 'human nature' to an action would still be unfounded.
But that doesn't matter, because human nature does not account for your actions.
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danooguy
Jan 31, 2004, 3:23 PM
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In reply to: We have have changed very little since the beginning of civilization--we just wear different clothes and try to act all sophisticated-like.
I think you are right on the money. We are still primitive. To ignore that is to make yourself vulnerable to a variety of perils.
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alwaysforward
Jan 31, 2004, 8:40 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: We have have changed very little since the beginning of civilization--we just wear different clothes and try to act all sophisticated-like. I think you are right on the money. We are still primitive. To ignore that is to make yourself vulnerable to a variety of perils.
I disagree. Instead, eliminate the labels of primitive and civilized and just understand that different cultures are simply different - not better or worse. There is no heirarchy in cultural diversity.
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jumpingrock
Feb 1, 2004, 2:52 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Serial killers are born that way, nurture just decides when it comes out, or if at all. Ya, and if they don't fulfil their potential as serial killers, they become corporate execs and managers.
Damn I only got 4 outta ten... I wonder if people would guess me as a serial killer? (not that I have invented any languages yet either)
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danooguy
Feb 1, 2004, 3:05 PM
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In reply to: I disagree. Instead, eliminate the labels of primitive and civilized and just understand that different cultures are simply different - not better or worse. There is no heirarchy in cultural diversity.
I agree that there is cultural diversity and in fact, I think that some of the less "advanced" cultures can be better in some ways...less stress and all that good stuff.
My point is that the use of the word culture is like putting a party hat on a pig. The basic element remains unchanged.
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alwaysforward
Feb 1, 2004, 6:52 PM
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OK, I guess that puts us more on the same page about cultural diversity.
BUT, about party hat on a pig... I donno. I think we certain basic capacities before birth. The capacity for intelligence, emotions, creativity, etc, but these require development, and the success of the development will directly corrolate to the levels of intelligence, emotions, creativity one has.
Ever heard that reading to your children makes them smarter?
Or about how maybe the reason Chinese students do so well in international math/science conpetitions is that their brain works harder then ours at an earlier age because the language is so difficult, thus stressing the mind earlier causing growth earlier.
It's all about 0-5.
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