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okinawatricam
Feb 10, 2004, 7:22 AM
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It's interesting:
In America, we climbers keep our areas secret, like we fear somone will come and steal our spot and prevent us from developing it. Here in OKinawa, when someone finds a new place, the word gets put out quickly so we can get routes up and play.
Just interesting that's all.
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mheyman
Feb 10, 2004, 12:39 PM
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For some people the motive for keeping an area secret is to be able to develop it. Others fear that if an area were widely known it would be over crowed, abused, and possibly closed. Closures in the US are all too common. Closing an area minimizes liability concerns. It’s easier to close an area than police it too.
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overlord
Feb 10, 2004, 12:44 PM
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in slo most areas are open, though there are still a few "secret" ones that are under development, but theyre usually revealed to public as soon as acess is organized (parking, tresspassing) and the "founders" get a few routes up.
sometimes theres even an opening party :P
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rrrADAM
Feb 10, 2004, 1:51 PM
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Another reason why areas are kept secret is so climbers can work all the routes/problems so they can get the FAs, as they don't want others who may climb much better than them getting FAs in "their area". That is calkled ego and self-centeredness.
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murf
Feb 10, 2004, 3:53 PM
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In reply to: Another reason why areas are kept secret is so climbers can work all the routes/problems so they can get the FAs, as they don't want others who may climb much better than them getting FAs in "their area". That is calkled ego and self-centeredness.
Finding a new area can take a lot of work. Hell, sometimes finding a new wall be just as demanding. Some guys walk around for days looking for new stuff. So lets say you find a wall and it looks to have a few good lines. You get the FA on one, its fun, exposed, and clean. You are freaking psyched! You pushed the line, you thought it wouldn't go, but it did. You are on top of the world.
You have to remember that some people are looking for new lines not to get their name in a guidebook, but rather to experience or perhaps to create something new. The line was always there, but as a climb its undiscovered.
So now the sun is going down and your wall/crag/secret area is calling to you. There's more to be done, and you don't want to leave. Why should you share this place? For now its yours, a bastion of untapped creativity. You may never tell anyone, never get the FA.
Murf
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theboss
Feb 10, 2004, 4:12 PM
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In reply to: Another reason why areas are kept secret is so climbers can work all the routes/problems so they can get the FAs, as they don't want others who may climb much better than them getting FAs in "their area". That is calkled ego and self-centeredness.
Sometimes when I meet one of the locals by chance, they admit doing it.
There's nothing wrong with developing an area and get FA's as long as you share it afterwards.
G
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calamity_chk
Feb 10, 2004, 5:01 PM
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wow, murf - that was like poetry.
the secret areas that i know about are secret for fear of population control. that is, it's not so much about route development and hogging FAs - but is about preserving the area from the masses and a concern about opening the area to people with lower ethical standards.
yay minimum impact.
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1269topper
Feb 10, 2004, 5:13 PM
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I agree to some of your comments and really liked murfs comments.
However most secert climbing areas are left because the average climbers are not interested. THey mite say I want to put up a FA but my experience its really hard to drag people away from the developed crags to go clean routes, do trail work or even make long approaches.
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dirtineye
Feb 10, 2004, 5:16 PM
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In reply to: I agree to some of your comments and really liked murfs comments. However most secert climbing areas are left because the average climbers are not interested. THey mite say I want to put up a FA but my experience its really hard to drag people away from the developed crags to go clean routes, do trail work or even make long approaches.
This is right about 99% of the time.
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bobd1953
Feb 10, 2004, 6:06 PM
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Another reason why areas are kept secret is so climbers can work all the routes/problems so they can get the FAs, as they don't want others who may climb much better than them getting FAs in "their area". That is calkled ego and self-centerednessIn reply to: Not so for a lot of people. I think it is only fair that the person doing most of the work(cleaning, bolting, trails etc...) should have the first shot at doing a route he or she has work on. I hate to break it to you but climbing is a very self-center-sport. If anything people who do FA's contribute more than some vulture who comes along trying to scarf some route. |
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overlord
Feb 10, 2004, 6:14 PM
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oh, BTW man.
PLEASE, edit the first post and correct the subject spelling. its annoying because i cant decide if i cant see the b or its simply not there.
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rokshoxbkr19
Feb 10, 2004, 6:34 PM
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That is great overlord. I didn't even realize it
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rockprodigy
Feb 10, 2004, 9:13 PM
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If you don't want people coming to your area, just space out the bolts...it's worked for me!
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flagpolewizard
Feb 10, 2004, 9:29 PM
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assuming we are talking about the island south of japan, you just can't compare it to any place else, it is has is own deal going, and I've got to call foul about the openess of the community there, climbing or otherwise, I got stuck trying to climb rotten sea walls with no success, and the times I did try to venture out, the permanent personel treated me worse than the locals did, of course the locals were only good to me when they were taking my money, but no one was around trying to show me their new spot, maybe I just wasn't in the right places, and I'm not trying to say the US is so wonderful, but I certainly get treated alot better back here
and to be fair, no hard feelings, I don't blame the okinowans (however its spelled) for disliking us, but I also won't hesitate to call it like it is, they don't like us
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fiend
Feb 10, 2004, 9:33 PM
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You also have to keep in mind that N. Americans are some of the most lawsuit happy people on the planet and every climbing area here either has access issues, is close to having access issues, or is secret until access can be resolved/established.
Sometimes it's better to keep it quiet until you know if you're allowed to be there.
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fiend
Feb 10, 2004, 9:35 PM
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In reply to: they don't like us
A lot of countries don't like the US :P
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climbhigh2005
Feb 10, 2004, 9:42 PM
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I keep most places secret as far as broadcasting them... If I know someone or talk to someone enough I will be more than happy to tell them about my secret areas... but I dont want them to get 2 crowded...
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brutusofwyde
Feb 10, 2004, 10:33 PM
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In praise of secrets:
When the whole world is mapped down to the last pebble and boulder problem, will there be nothing in the world off the edges of the map? Will our only remaining explorations be into the minutiae, as already exemplified by the new horizons presented to the climbing populace by the "new" fad of bouldering? Or developing the 7th, 99th, or 1,000,000th new way of doing a climb?
Secret areas can be as much or more a gift to future generations as/than full beta of every possible move and elimination on the cliff.
I see nothing wrong with, after "discovering" an area, perhaps climbing a few lines, keeping that secret with me to the grave. Information can be as much, more, of a "trace" than footprints, fire-rings, parking areas and picnic tables.
Yosemite, its secrets stripped away by generations of broadcasting word of her treasures, is now but a prostitute with the NPS her domineering pimp: Still beautiful, but now primarily available to those who would pay cash to have her, even the secrets of her walls sold on the open market, rather than being available only to those who would woo and win her with love, failure, disappointment, tears, and toil, returning again and again until we are worthy of her caress.
Secrets in the heart of the wilderness are the most precious, truest definition of wilderness.
They lie beyond the grasp of experience, beyond the edges of the map, in the deepest darkness of all, the unknown, where our imaginations must brave to pull aside the curtain of our fear to see what lies beyond. Those who have partaken of this cup need not turn the poetry to pornography by stripping away the mysteries with the harsh spotlight of publicity.
Here there be dragons.
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scubasnyder
Feb 10, 2004, 10:41 PM
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secret spots are good, but i think the more areas the better, i mean i know places i climb and no one is ever there, so i dont worry about others when im climbing, i never see anyone where are they??
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okinawatricam
Feb 10, 2004, 10:50 PM
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In reply to: assuming we are talking about the island south of japan, you just can't compare it to any place else, it is has is own deal going, and I've got to call foul about the openess of the community there, climbing or otherwise, I got stuck trying to climb rotten sea walls with no success, and the times I did try to venture out, the permanent personel treated me worse than the locals did, of course the locals were only good to me when they were taking my money, but no one was around trying to show me their new spot, maybe I just wasn't in the right places, and I'm not trying to say the US is so wonderful, but I certainly get treated alot better back here and to be fair, no hard feelings, I don't blame the okinowans (however its spelled) for disliking us, but I also won't hesitate to call it like it is, they don't like us
Actually I am talking about the same island. I wonder when were you here. COuld it be before the development of the climbing on island. Most of the sea cliffs here are rotten rock with patches of good lime stone on them.
Seems to me that the locals are very open, actually, many of the routes have been put up by Americans and the local are quick to show new climbers arounds, maybe they want more routes put up.
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roughster
Feb 10, 2004, 11:42 PM
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I think that you are combining two ideas:
Secret Areas
and
Areas being developed
I would say secret areas are those that have a a significant number of routes but the "locals" refuse to share the beta. Developing areas on the other hand are those with few routes, no real trails built, access not fully secured, and have issues that are currently being addressed.
I am for keeping developing areas low key, but highly against secret areas.
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sixter
Feb 11, 2004, 1:18 AM
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I have to agree with what brutusofwyde said, some things should remain "secret", I know some of us started climbing for the "adventure" aspect of it. I spent an afternoon with a friend just walking around with chalkbags and shoes looking for things to climb. We messed around on some exposed rock, and found a nice little boulder area. It was nice, for once, to not just follow the chalk marks (or colored tags) to the end of a problem. There probably wasn't much for it to be of interest to the average climber, but there was enough to kill an afternoon with. I will probably return one day when I am stronger to climb a few bolder lines with way bad landings. Even better, we left the area in a condition where it can be "discovered" by someone else.
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okinawatricam
Feb 11, 2004, 1:24 AM
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I remember driving through part of NC with a well known local climber when I asked about some cliff in the distance. He explained to me that those cliff had nothing worth while on them, and that noone ever climb there. I was shocked to hear it, but I didn't push the issue.
Two weeks later, another local and I were climbing at those "worthless Cliffs," when the first local showed up. HE saw me and asked what I tought of the area, like he brought me there. I explained that the 6 pitches of perfect NC granite were "Worthless."
Secret climbing Areas Suck. Access issues can be resolved by all memebers of the climbing community, so that's not an excuse.
I agree, there's a diference between secret crag and developing crag.
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roughster
Feb 11, 2004, 1:30 AM
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In reply to: Access issues can be resolved by all memebers of the climbing community, so that's not an excuse.
The key there is they can be addressed by anyone, the truth is few are willing to do it.
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mheyman
Feb 11, 2004, 3:26 AM
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In the eastern US, if you are not sure climbing is are allowed, then you can be pretty sure it is not allowed.
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