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berkly
Feb 25, 2004, 3:40 PM
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In your opinion, what is the best device to use for self belaying on a top rope? And Why.
Just trying to get the pros and cons for each device before purchasing.
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skiclimb
Feb 25, 2004, 3:57 PM
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Silent Partner....all you need to know...period.
Might need a second job to afford one however.
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petzlhanger721
Feb 25, 2004, 4:10 PM
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Well i think that the BD ACT-Xp is one of the best all around devices. BUt for top roping i used my riends Petzl Grigir. It will set you back a bit around 70 bones but it has the self braking feature but the only draw back is that in order for it to really work you the climber always needs to be moving. I know weird!!!!!
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tedc
Feb 25, 2004, 4:27 PM
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Silent Partner, best for TR???
ATC-XP for self belay???
what is a Grigir???
My preference for top rope is some type of ascender; preferably non-toothed. Petzl Rescucender or Microcender or Gibbs Rescucender are top choices in my book.
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ipsofacto
Feb 25, 2004, 4:41 PM
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23456789
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luigi
Feb 25, 2004, 5:47 PM
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Petzl Microcender!!! The only thing you have to watchout for is shock loading but if the Microcender is moving smoothly when going up the route that should never happen.
luigi
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berkov
Feb 25, 2004, 7:09 PM
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Microcender is the way to go but I already have a minitraxion and works fine if you keep the slack out. Hang a water bottle off the end of the rope and back it up with directional 8s or alpine butterflies in the other half or a second rope hanging from the anchor
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dbrayack
Feb 25, 2004, 7:22 PM
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I have a lot of experience with using the gri gri, but you have to stop and pull up on it, so really, you can't climb something clean, but rather work moves then either jump for grab the rope and "up rope". I hear the soloist is quite good for that such thing however.
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jtcronk
Feb 26, 2004, 4:04 PM
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I've been using a Soloist for years now. Works great for leading. I haven't top-toped much with it, but I'd assume it works decent for that too. The only real negative with it is the need to tie in backup knots every 10-15 feet, as it won't catch an upside-down fall with out doing that. Not a big deal though.
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abkaiser
Feb 26, 2004, 5:53 PM
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Nobody's mentioned the Yates Rocker yet. Here's a post I started last year about how it works:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...iewtopic.php?t=42131
Here's another post with some more Rocker information, as well as problems with the Ushba Basic Ascender:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...iewtopic.php?t=40958
Because I'm paranoid, I use safety knots, and I would regardless of my solo device.
Other stats on the Rocker:
- It's non-toothed, so won't shred the rope. It uses rope compression to stop a fall (similar to a grigri).
- Cost was around $90 retail last I knew.
- Will work in icy/wet conditions.
- For shorter climbs, you will need to weight the rope in some way, or will have to manually pull the rope through the device
- The Rocker has an adjustment so that you can change how you want the belay. You can set the device to allow no down movement, or looser for slow down movement (like downclimbing).
- Downclimbing is the recommended way of descending. However, John Yates told me another way that I detailed in the top link. Not as smooth as a grigri lower, but still works fine when downclimbing isn't an option.
- Inverted falls are no problem due to the design of the device. To catch a fall, the rope pulls the device right-side up and it "rocks" onto the rope. I will say, though, that this is an educated guess - I have never fallen inverted on the rocker.
Andy
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irockclimb
Feb 29, 2004, 10:03 PM
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i love my petzel mintraxion works fine jus tie a bag on the bottom and it takes a the slack out. id recomend it to people like myself who dont always have a climbing partner and loves me climb outside
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jonthorpe
Mar 1, 2004, 3:54 AM
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Umm... How about you just make a friend? :lol: I really don't like to reccomend self-belaying at all - especially to someone who may not have the experience in it. If something is to go wrong - then you really have no way out of the situation. Safety first.
my 2c.
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stick233
Mar 10, 2004, 2:57 PM
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you guys that have used the gri gri... ever use a 9.8 on it for TR soloing? also, do you tie in back up knots on the way up? thanks
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dontjinxme
Mar 10, 2004, 3:06 PM
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The "Ground". Sure it hurts when it belays you. But it stops you solid. Plus, its there when you ever you get there.
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stick233
Mar 10, 2004, 3:07 PM
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In reply to: The "Ground". Sure it hurts when it belays you. But it stops you solid. Plus, its there when you ever you get there.
thanks for your input... again, you guys that have used the gri gri... ever use a 9.8 on it for TR soloing? also, do you tie in back up knots on the way up? thanks
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stick233
Mar 10, 2004, 4:25 PM
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okay, more specific question:
microcender vs. minitraxion...
which is better for Top Rope soloing?
which is better all around in regards to aid/ hauling AND TR soloing? pros and cons? what is the shock loading problem i hear about with the microcender?
please help, thanks...
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tedc
Mar 10, 2004, 4:43 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: The "Ground". Sure it hurts when it belays you. But it stops you solid. Plus, its there when you ever you get there. thanks for your input... again, you guys that have used the gri gri... ever use a 9.8 on it for TR soloing? also, do you tie in back up knots on the way up? thanks
T1...no T1/2 :(
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sticky_fingers
Mar 10, 2004, 4:46 PM
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No one mentioned it, but I'll throw my fave out there:
Petzl's Basic Ascender.
I've been using this thing for years and never had a problem. It DOES have teeth, but I'd rather have teeth than not (personal preference, turn off flame guns) incase the rope is slick/glazed or there's tape on it, it's raining, etc. The teeth just provide me with a sense of security that is, IMO, outweighted by having teeth.
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fitz
Mar 10, 2004, 7:35 PM
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I'd just like to put a good word in for the venerable clove hitch. It weighs nothing, doesn't jam, and can't be dropped. Best of all, you always have it with you and it doesn't cost anything!
I have a gri-gri, and I understand why some people swear by it, but I have always found it to be something of a pain for self belay, at least on lead. I've seen some folks drill a hole and then harness it upright, which seems to improve the self-feeding, but I generally get to a stance, feed out what I think is enough to the next stance, come up short, sweat and swear, and then either down climb or claw it out.
For rope solo lead, the specialty devices, like the Silent Partner and the Soloist seem to work best, especially if you've coiled up the sharp end and are hauling it with you. For top roping, some affectionados will disagree, but I think that almost everything, gri-gri, ascender, clove hitch, etc. is about equal. No matter how you rig, it is pretty much climb, stance, suck up the slack, repeat.
No device or method is particularly easy. Self belaying is a lot of extra work, hassle, and tangle. So much work that a lot of folks skip backup knots. That a personal choice, but there is not one self braking device that I have not seen slip at least once, so I would highly recommend backup knots, at least when you are getting started.
-jjf
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pcfcclmbr
Mar 10, 2004, 10:09 PM
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I've toproped with the Soloist for about 14 yrs and have probably fallen on it about 5000 times. It works very well. It catches falls well, and also feeds well with a light weight on the free end. The only disadvantages are need a chest harness, doesn't do traverses well, can't reverse moves without hanging. You can also rap with it easily when you top out. I have never had a problem with it. I don't do backup knots. It ha never not held a fall.
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pcfcclmbr
Mar 10, 2004, 10:10 PM
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I've toproped with the Soloist for about 14 yrs and have probably fallen on it about 5000 times. It works very well. It catches falls well, and also feeds well with a light weight on the free end. The only disadvantages are need a chest harness, doesn't do traverses well, can't reverse moves without hanging. You can also rap with it easily when you top out. I have never had a problem with it. I don't do backup knots. It has never not held a fall.
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skiclimb
Mar 10, 2004, 10:40 PM
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In reply to: No one mentioned it, but I'll throw my fave out there: Petzl's Basic Ascender. I've been using this thing for years and never had a problem. It DOES have teeth, but I'd rather have teeth than not (personal preference, turn off flame guns) incase the rope is slick/glazed or there's tape on it, it's raining, etc. The teeth just provide me with a sense of security that is, IMO, outweighted by having teeth.
BAD CHOICE...Almost as bad as using prusiks (for different reason)...easy to exceed the the ripping point of the sheath...you will get by with it most of the time but someday it WILL bite you.
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sticky_fingers
Mar 10, 2004, 11:14 PM
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skiclimb - how do you mean? Petzl designed it for ascending and solo TR-ing. Granted I wouldn't recommend using it with a long tie off from your belay loop, but when I've "fallen" on it, I've only fallen about 3-4". (I probably should have also said that I only use my beefy 11mil static rope when I use my Basic.)
Removing prusiks (I agree with you), you've either got to use something with teeth/cogs or something without teeth/cogs. I guess cogs are safer than teeth, but what would you recommend?
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sgorman
Apr 28, 2004, 2:13 AM
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I like the first question...microscender vs. minitraxion? it still hasn't been answered...
sam
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