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trad_man
Mar 23, 2004, 2:37 AM
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Hey I'm in need of some assistance. I'm a senior and have to do a senior presentation. For it I want to have some slacklining involved with it. What I want to do is set up a 60-80 foot line and get it on video to show it. I'm going to get some pullies and some rope for the mechanical part but what I want to know, is it possible to get an 80-foot line tight enough? I don't want it to be a high line, not that good haha. Just something as high as maybe like 6 feet at the highest or something. And I'm pretty sure there's something on here that talks about how to set up a long line with pullies but is there any pictures about it, I'd get more out of it with pictures haha. If there is, can you point them out to me? Thanks a bunch
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slacklinejoe
Mar 23, 2004, 3:01 AM
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There are several ways of rigging it with pulleys that might do what your wanting, but you really should be realistic about the line your trying to make. 6 feet drop is really tight for a 80 foot line.
Raising the ends another 3 feet may make it significantly easier to tighten but not effect the lines hight too much since you can still pull it down to mount it just not as close to the ends.
Setting up pulleys from petzl's site:
http://www.petzl.com/petzl/SportConseils?MotRecherche=Quick+Search&Langue=en&Activite=14&Famille=12&Conseil=&Produit=&SousFamille=
A 9:1 slackline w/ release hitch (you can use pulleys instead of biners for significantly less friction)
http://www.wanderingphotographer.com/slack_pages/slackline_systems/nine-to-one.htm
I've set lines that long solo at that height but never with pulleys ( I used my own ratcheting system with a slide lock ) so best of luck. You may want to look into even more advantage than a 9:1 if that won't do it for you. The big question is are you trying to rig this solo or with help? That extra muscle really helps out on pulley based lines.
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theturtle
Mar 23, 2004, 6:35 AM
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Your first consideration should be the slackline’s stretch. If you want your slackline to be 80 feet long at 6 feet off the ground, you’re only going to need about 70 feet of webbing for your slackline. Once you stretch it tight your slackline will be close to 80 feet long.
I don’t really recommend the Petzl web page that slacklinejoe refers to, it does not give any slackline rigging information at all.
A decent tensioning system was posted by jayphr a couple months ago. I don’t know how to link to it…jayphr? A little help here…
It is not the exact system I use, but it has many similarities. If you experimented with this style of setup, you could set an 80 footer.
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slacklinejoe
Mar 23, 2004, 6:40 AM
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In reply to: A decent tensioning system was posted by jayphr a couple months ago. I don’t know how to link to it…jayphr? A little help here… It is not the exact system I use, but it has many similarities. If you experimented with this style of setup, you could set an 80 footer.
The second link in my post was to Jayphr's page you were mentioning. The first one was just about pulley rigging to show how much pull is necessary when using pulleys in typical setups - thats why I put it in there.
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theturtle
Mar 23, 2004, 9:01 AM
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Thanks Joe, I was looking for that.
Not exactly the perfect setup to tension an 80 footer, but it has important tensioning concepts. It is good to try different things and see what works for you.
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theturtle
Mar 23, 2004, 9:02 AM
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Thanks Joe, I was looking for that.
Not exactly the perfect setup to tension an 80 footer, but it has important tensioning concepts. It is good to try different things and see what works for you.
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japhyr
Mar 23, 2004, 5:05 PM
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I used the setup on that page recently to try a 60-foot line at 6 feet off the ground. I used pulleys instead of biners, and I could just barely get it tight enough that I almost touched the ground in the middle of the line. Then it stretched after a moment or two and I touched the ground. I played a little away from the middle, and I love the feel of a longer line. I like the deeper bounce, and the slower rhythm of the longer line. I think if I put it about 8 feet high it might work. But man that's scary at first when you step off and the line thwacks your forearms as it snaps back to head height!
Here's the link:
http://www.wanderingphotographer.com/...tems/nine-to-one.htm
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trad_man
Mar 24, 2004, 3:56 AM
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ok thanks a million with all that help guys, i think im gonna do that 9:1 sytem. i will have a lil help, my girlfriend will be gettin it on her camera so she can help me pull it. my next question is can you explain what the 9:1 sytem is like where the 9 comes from and everything there is about it, well just what the 9 means and the 1 im kinda still in the fog about that one thanks
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trent
Mar 24, 2004, 5:23 AM
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pretty straight forward. 9:1 means that you have a 9 to 1 mechanical advantage. For every unit of force you apply to the tail end of the rope, it will be multiplied 9 times onto the line itself.
The 9:1 comes from piggy backing a 3:1 system onto another 3:1 system. 3 x 3 = 9.
For long low lines we use another 3:1 system on top of that giving theoretically a 27:1 system. but with this to gain 1ft on the line you have to pull 27ft through the pulleys.
we have setup 60ft lines 5ft of the ground using this system and the closest we get to the ground is about 3ft.
Caution: this line was tight, and i wouldnt recommend doing it with anything less than a perfect line. ie no nicks or abrasions in it at all. We tried it with an older line we had and it broke!
Trent
http://www.slackieho.net
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japhyr
Mar 24, 2004, 9:20 PM
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If you pull on the system with a force of 100 pounds, you will get 900 pounds of tension on the line. It's not actually 900 pounds, because some of your force is used to overcome friction in the system. That's why it's more efficient to use pulleys instead of carabiners.
I just picked up some of those orange rings which turn a carabiner into a pulley, as shown on slackieho. They are great for simple slacklines.
27:1 is hardcore! But I couldn't get a 60' line tight enough 6' off the ground with a 9:1. That's a lot of pulling and resetting.
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action
Mar 24, 2004, 9:31 PM
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HERE is what i have done...and it works GREAT...1) find a big tree...attach slack line. 2) attach other end to roll-bars on your jeep wrangler. 3) Drop it in gear and put the metal to the pedal...YEAH...i'm not shittin' ya....quick...easy...and great for long lines...
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trad_man
Mar 24, 2004, 10:00 PM
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ok one more question, hopefully this is the lasti was looking at that australian slackline site and i was looking at the hand drawn picture of the setup. it has the tiblocs and also the kong gi gi. I really didnt want to use anything more then pullies or carabiners. would it be possible to use prusiks for the tiblok and maybe a gri gri for the kong gi gi? and if you were going to do this line how high would you set it up without making the line too tight(i dont mind it bein tight but i dont want myself to the point where i think its too tight and am nervous about wlakin it) or is that up to whoever is making the line. thanks for all the help
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theturtle
Mar 24, 2004, 10:12 PM
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Slackers have been known to use a Gri-Gri and/or prusiks to lock the rope off, you will have to experiment with the setup to get it right for you. I suggest using static rope to make your system more efficient.
There is no way you will get a 60-80 foot line too tight, especially if you want it low to the ground.
:shock:
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japhyr
Mar 24, 2004, 11:39 PM
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Prusiks work. I've heard from others that the grigri can be difficult to release after a session, you might want to search this forum for grigri.
I'm curious to hear how high you end up making it. 5 or 6 feet will require a lot of tension, if you set up around 8-10 feet I think you will be able to get it tight enough. That's just a guess, I'm just starting to play with longer lines.
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slackieho_simon
Mar 25, 2004, 12:00 AM
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Hey, In reply to the use of a Petzl GriGri, i posted a note on the Slackieho.net site about using these neat little devices. They are perfect for locking off the static line used when tensioning but, after using the Grigri a few times we realised that; 1. it was getting a flogging due to the strain placed on the whole system. Consequently, we were a bit worried about using it as a belay device when climbing. It would be sweet if you could afford a separate Gri for slacklining but they are pretty expensive. This leads to the second problem. When using the 9:1 or 27:1 on linger lines, it was almost impossible to use the gri to release the line. The release handle would bend almost to breaking point before the line finally became loose. A munter would work here but problem 1 was the biggest issue.
The system we now use with the Kong 'GiGi' has proved faultless, especially when paired up with the munter hitch on the fixed (stationary)end of the line to release the lot when finished.
Prussiks would work a treat, might try that one and hopefully get some pics.
Last of all, the 27:1 setup we used got the ~50ft line sooo tight it almost wasn't slacklining. Using those little red pullys on carabiners works a treat and the 9:1 works perfectly so far. :wink:
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n00b
Mar 25, 2004, 12:08 AM
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when a gri gri is put under too much tension, it does lock up. the cam goes past it's tightest point and begins to open up on the inside of the cam. it is a pain to undo, and it usually helps to have a friend retighten to relieve pressre off of the gri gri while you try to undo it.
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trad_man
Mar 25, 2004, 12:17 AM
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im looking at the drawing with the gigi in use and when you pull on the tightening part, it seems like its not doing much. would a carabiner in place of the gigi work also? or am i missing the whole point of the gigi...and also i dont really know what a gigi does other then allows you to belay 2 people at once. when you get it tight enough. to me it seems right now at least on the drawing you can just tie the end and it wont go anywhere?
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action
Mar 25, 2004, 12:33 AM
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i'm telling you guys...use the jeep :wink:
260 Horse Power : 1 Ratio
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trent
Mar 25, 2004, 12:50 AM
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the kong gi gi shown at http://www.slackieho.net has been rigged in auto-block mode. This is similar to the way a petzl reverso works. So as you pull on the tightening system rope moves throught the Gi-Gi (hence tightening the line more) but when you release the end of the rope the Gi-Gi locks and holds the slackline very tight with virtually no lose of tension (as is the common problem with using prussicks). Basically it works the same as if you used a Petzl Gri Gri in the same place only the Kong Gi-Gi has no moving parts and is very cheap @ approx $12.
The main difference between a Gri Gri and the Kong Gi-Gi is that when the Gi-Gi is loaded in auto-block mode, it cannot be released. As a result if you look on slackieho.net you will see that Simon has suggested that on the opposite end of the line (the one with no tensioning system that is usually tied driectly to the anchor) you tie the slackline off with a munter mule knot. This way once the system is tight it can be released easily.
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slacklinejoe
Mar 25, 2004, 12:58 AM
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I believe the Gi Gi is there to help you lock the thing off after you get it tensioned so you can tie it off easier. With that much tension on the line it can be problematic to tie off without having slippage occur without something to help lock the line off.
I hope you have better luck than I did with a somewhat similar experiment. I was playing around trying to pulling a 45 foot line tight (under 5 feet) with a Mouflage Mariner and it really sucked.
See: http://www.slacklineexpress.com/types.htm
Granted it was pulling solo (I'm no lightweight though) and without pulleys, but I doubled all biners to increase the turn diameter and spent a lot of time getting it just right. Just guessing from my experiments and Japhyr's comments you may needing a 12:1 (9:1 at least) or greater pull ratio to not bottom out in the middle.
Again, setting it a few feet higher on the ends will make a big difference.
How many pulleys do you have at your disposale anyway? If you have a bunch I'd plan on making the most out of each one of them.
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slackieho_simon
Mar 25, 2004, 3:06 AM
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Yep, joe is right, the GiGi could be there just to lock off the system as you tension it. But, i think we differ from some setups in that we leave a few meters of static line and the GiGi in place after we remove all the pulleys and carabiners etc so we never actually have just the webbing running from tree to tree. A bit of a bummer coz walking the last bit of the line on 11mm static is pretty damm slippery and a bit rolly! To get the line to run the whole way (i.e. tree to tree) we would have to tie off the webbing and dismantle the GiGi. Some tension would be lost but again, it is something we will try out and see how i goes. In the case of highlines, the bolts or anchors are set well back from the cliff face so there is no problem leaving the rigging on there, as long it is well backed up.
Good hearing about other tensioning systems, especially the Jeep! :wink:
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theturtle
Mar 25, 2004, 3:31 AM
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I do not recommend leaving any tensioning system in your line while you are walking on it. I have used a Gri-Gri in my tensioning system with decent success, but we always tie off the line and remove the tensioning system. After we bent 2 Gri-Gri’s by leaving them in the slackline, we realized that tying off the line would have to be done. To our surprise the extra step only takes a few minutes, and the slackline walks much smoother. Metal in the line adds weight and interference and it makes the system less dynamic.
I would also like to point out that using a Gri-Gri in your tensioning system is not even close to the manufacturer’s intended use. Gri-Gri’s have never been tested for this kind of use and Petzl would never endorse this or recommended it as safe.
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trad_man
Mar 25, 2004, 3:59 AM
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so the way i understand now is that after you get the line as tight as you want it, the gigi is there just to keep it tight so you can take out the pulleys? am i right? and if i am (which i hope i am) it wouldnt hurt to keep the pulleys and everythign on the line while you walk on the line. i dont really care about walking all over the biners and stuff b/c i will just turn around right at the biners and walk the other way. and i still have yet to get the pulleys but common sense would tell me that the more pulleys id get the easier it will be, but if i got 2 many wouldnt it bcome 2 crowded and just too much friction to work with? but thanks soo much for the help iv learned alot. hopefully this is the last of this forum. but ill get back to ya guys tell ya how the presentation went :wink:
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trad_man
Mar 30, 2004, 1:23 AM
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hey again well i ordered the stuff il gonna need, i got 80 feet of webbing. 3 of those petzl ornge pully things and the biners that work with them. and 30 feet of static rope to tighten it with and a gigi for the auto block...the thing is haha today the people called and said its on a 4 day backorder im mad but what can i do, so ill let ya know how it goes when i get it done
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