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gohighgodeep
Apr 25, 2004, 4:05 AM
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I'm a caver who's been moving into climbing over the last year, most of my climbing experience is free climbing underground and so I've got some questions about quickdraws... i've got a bunch of BD Nutrinos, and i'm wondring which way the biners should be oriented, facing the same way or facing opposite ways? also, one side has a rubber retaining sleeve to keep the biner in place, is it better to use this side for the pro or the rope?
thanks all!
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bmoscon
Apr 25, 2004, 4:15 AM
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as for which way the biners are oriented, it really doesnt matter, personal prefrence. usually the rubber retaining sleve is at the pro end, but which ever you prefer
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mntklimr
Apr 25, 2004, 4:18 AM
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Funny you should ask?
Some sceptisim over this.
The old standard was to have the quickdraws set up with each carabineer opposing the other; i.e. one faces left, one faces right.
Studies however, and more recent accidents have shown there exisits a tendency for accidental opening of the carabineer. Now all companies have swithed them to both face the same direction. I've never had a problem, but if all the companies are doing it, it might tell you something.
Cheers
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boss
Apr 25, 2004, 4:21 AM
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Face the biners the same way and leave the rubber end for the rope. The reason for the rubber sleave is to keep the biner in place while you are clipping it.
Boss
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daisuke
Apr 25, 2004, 9:40 AM
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if you learn with them one way then you'll be good
most of the research the companies do is based on highly improbable situations you'll rarely encounter in sport climbing. The biner gates facing the same direction are marginally safer as a friend showed me once, I believed him because it makes total sense, but I've since forgotten the argument so I can't repeat it. I think it has to do with the back of the biner hitting the rock instead of the gate (which might open)
I however, learned to clip wih the biner gates opposing so that's the way I keep mine, and I get confused if they're the other way round. I also find clipping the hangers easier from the side facing away from you because the hanger is always left of the bolt and slants from top left to bottom right, you can just pull it onto the hanger instead of holding the gate open and rotating the biner nearly 90 degrees so you can get the biner into the hanger, all this in order to keep the lower biner gate facing away from you as it should be in most cases. Plus, a statistical majority of people are right handed and thus right hand clips are more common. I guess I'm just trying to justify my old ways in clipping, but I do find it easier.
D
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daisuke
Apr 25, 2004, 10:00 AM
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daisuke moved this thread from General to Gear Heads.
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justin
Apr 25, 2004, 11:28 AM
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Good question, the side with rubber is the rope end and this serves to make clipping easier. It's not a major issue though, what can be is the indentations bolts leave on quickdraws- you don't want the rough portion of the 'biner rubbing along your rope.
To clarify: repeated clipping and falling on bolts leaves small nicks and scrapes on the internal edge of the carabiner which makes contact with the bolt hanger surface. These can have an abrasive effect on the rope. Hence: one side of the quickdraw is the designated rope end.
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reedcrr
Apr 25, 2004, 11:42 AM
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Justin makes a good point in that you should always be consistent with your clipping style to avoid the rope passing through a nick in the biner.
As for the Quickdraws the "normal" setup is draws opposing each other. In addition the striaght gate gets clipped to the bolt and the bent or wire gate is clipped with the rope. The rubber retainer is to keep the bent or wiregate biner from swinging around while your trying to clip saving you time in your clipping. Not all quickdraws have this feature but one end of the sling will be loose and the other will be tight... the tight webbing is for the bent or wiregate. As for Pro, it depends on the pro but normally you want to use an oval biner for hand placed pro, not a D shaped biner which is on most quickdraw setups..
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tedc
Apr 26, 2004, 5:05 PM
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In reply to: usually the rubber retaining sleve is at the pro end, but which ever you prefer
BEEP. Try again. The "secured" biner should DEFINITELY NOT be clipped to the pro. Especially is said pro is a bolt. The rubber band holds the sling to the biner forcinging the biner to rotate when the sling moves. A rotating biner on a bolt has the potential to rotate into a crossloading position or even a SELF-UNCLIPING :shock: position. (Simulate this yourself, on the ground). Better to let the sling move freely on this biner. The rubber holds the clipping biner in the right position for clipping but is otherwise pretty useless.
The direction of the biners while on your harness in unimportant. When placed on a bolt (other pro) the general idea is to have the gates facing opposite the direction of travel. This, however is ususlly easiest to achieve if you start with the gates facing the same way when you build your draws.
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jt512
Apr 26, 2004, 5:29 PM
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In reply to: as for which way the biners are oriented, it really doesnt matter, personal prefrence. usually the rubber retaining sleve is at the pro end, but which ever you prefer
Wrong, and wrong, as explained by tedc et al.
-Jay
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jt512
Apr 26, 2004, 5:32 PM
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In reply to: Face the biners the same way and leave the rubber end for the rope. The reason for the rubber sleave is to keep the biner in place while you are clipping it. Boss
Right. For detailed discussion of rationale for facing biners the same way, do a forum search. This topic has been discussed frequently.
-Jay
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jt512
Apr 26, 2004, 5:34 PM
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In reply to: ...normally you want to use an oval biner for hand placed pro...
Huh?
-Jay
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the_pirate
Apr 26, 2004, 5:42 PM
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someone please lock this thread before the Gumbytude reaches critical mass.
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kobaz
Sep 30, 2004, 4:52 AM
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In reply to: the tight webbing is for the bent or wiregate
Huh? The tight webbing is for the straight gate to make reaching for bolts easier.
In reply to: normally you want to use an oval biner for hand placed pro, not a D shaped biner which is on most quickdraw setups..
Eh? D shaped biners are far stronger than ovals and are actually used quite often when placing pro (more so than ovals) to make sure that when the biner is loaded, the force is concentrated on the spine of the biner which is the stongest point (and the furthest point from the gate).
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jakedatc
Sep 30, 2004, 5:03 AM
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In reply to: Huh? The tight webbing is for the straight gate to make reaching for bolts easier.
Wrong... explained above by someone or another... someone shoulda taken pirates advice and locked this... oyyy
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jt512
Sep 30, 2004, 6:18 AM
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jt512 has locked this thread.
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jt512
Sep 30, 2004, 6:22 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Huh? The tight webbing is for the straight gate to make reaching for bolts easier. :shock: Wrong... explained above by someone or another... someone shoulda taken pirates advice and locked this... oyyy
You're right.
jt512 has locked this thread. Reason: Unsalvageable 5-month-old thread dominated by confusing, conflicting advice.
-Jay
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Quickdraws: some general questions?
