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dredsovrn
Apr 23, 2004, 11:12 PM
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If only trash cans were stronger they would make great pro in offwidths. Imagine the versatility of Metolius Curved Cans. Slung or wired. Your choice. Liners not included.
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dutyje
Apr 24, 2004, 2:14 AM
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In reply to: ...and you still haven't answered my question about cats....
OK everybody.. this is what happens when you try to learn how to climb on the internet. These forums are littered with n00bs (ahem) doling out advice as if they were seasoned climbers.
I've seen a lot of posts in this thread raving about using cats as protection. This practice is dangerous and should be obsolete. My Black Diamond CatCentrics claim to have six different placement options. This is entirely untrue.
While it may be possible to insert the cat and seat it appropriately in six different positions, a cat is naturally inclined, in the event of a fall, to orient itself such that its feet are pointed toward the ground.
I learned the dangers of this first-hand in Seneca several years ago when my inverted cat placement attempted to land on its feet when I fell. The protection blew and sent me on a 50-foot screamer. The only thing that kept me off the deck was a bomber black lab that I'd tied off with a 2 foot loop of red webbing. Yeah, red webbing -- just gives you an idea of how long ago this was. Man, were we stupid back then or what?
Retire your cats. Or if you insist on climbing with them, please make sure you only seat them with their feet oriented in a proper landing position, and back them up with a more modernized Amazon bat placement.
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climbinginchico
Apr 24, 2004, 2:39 AM
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Wow, that must have been a scary fall. The red webbing held? :shock: Man, you really were lucky; it's a good thing those labs are so bomber huh? Was he painted yellow at least? I will defintely be more careful when placing my cats from now on.
Glad you are still with us, and hopefully we can all learn a lesson in cat placement from this near fatal accident.
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dutyje
Apr 24, 2004, 3:05 AM
Post #129 of 197
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In reply to: Wow, that must have been a scary fall. The red webbing held? :shock: Man, you really were lucky; it's a good thing those labs are so bomber huh? Was he painted yellow at least? I will defintely be more careful when placing my cats from now on. Glad you are still with us, and hopefully we can all learn a lesson in cat placement from this near fatal accident.
The lab was NOT painted yellow! Can you believe it? We've really come a long way with research and technology. I didn't even know anything about yellow-painted labs back then. Red webbing has always been bomber, which is why I used it so much. Now, I'm just worried that years of exposure to the red dyes in the webbing will give me cancer.
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chodeman
Apr 24, 2004, 3:35 AM
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In reply to: Anybody know how to make a particle accelerator with a paper clip, neon webbing, a 9-volt, an empty bottle of beer and my trusty MacGuyver style Swiss Army Knife? I need to get that vampire bat bomber to the border collie...
Cut the webbing in half with the swiss army knife, tie 1 half of the webbing to the beer bottel, attach the paperclip to the battery and somehow forcefully put the battery into the beer bottle, now spin the webbing with beer bottle attached in concetric circles and with the other half of the webbing have somebody tie yourlegs together and shove you off a cliff while still spinning the bottle
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climbinginchico
Apr 24, 2004, 3:42 AM
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Sweet, I will have to try that next time I am on top of Half Dome. Should give me plenty of time to get it spinning fast! Thanks for the info, where did you do your doctoral work in Particle Physics?
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chodeman
Apr 24, 2004, 3:46 AM
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Actually im just the lab Biotch i steal all the real docters work and use it for my own good. That way i cant be held accountable when i publish these documents but i still get the money!!! :lol:
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theboss
Apr 24, 2004, 6:09 AM
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I wondered why anyone didn't propose the use of gecko's for aiding. You won't need the combination of collies & the ACME holes with the risk of losing your yellow cord.
No need for a hole or crack as they stick directly to the wall ánd they come with a toy biner attached to the tail. That makes it rather easy to clean the route, just pull the biner and the tail comes off.
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popol
Apr 24, 2004, 7:11 AM
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Gecko's are REALLY good for A5!
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drubt
Apr 24, 2004, 7:36 AM
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for a long time i had the same cat problem some of you have mentioned they just fell right out of every placement i made just tryin to get on their feet. so i took some initiative (that and I didn't have enough money for labs at the time) and tryed to figure out how to make em bomber. after a few tests i found they lose all sense when you cut off the whiskers. actually to be honest it was an accident when I was cutting off some old red webbing off of my favorite calicot to replace it with new yellow webbing he turned right around and clip clip off they came. he promptly walked himself right into the wall trying to get out a door. well that got me to thinkin so i cut off all the whiskers and havn't had a problem since.
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dutyje
Apr 24, 2004, 11:19 AM
Post #136 of 197
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In reply to: for a long time i had the same cat problem some of you have mentioned they just fell right out of every placement i made just tryin to get on their feet. so i took some initiative (that and I didn't have enough money for labs at the time) and tryed to figure out how to make em bomber. after a few tests i found they lose all sense when you cut off the whiskers. actually to be honest it was an accident when I was cutting off some old red webbing off of my favorite calicot to replace it with new yellow webbing he turned right around and clip clip off they came. he promptly walked himself right into the wall trying to get out a door. well that got me to thinkin so i cut off all the whiskers and havn't had a problem since.
Clever. That's a very interesting concept. Have there been any formal tests on this? Maybe tusko can lend us his weights and trash can. I'll cut the whiskers off one of my CatCentrics, lodge it in a crack, and do some drop tests. By your theory, the cat will become disoriented, and lose its instinct to land on its feet. Hopefully, the lack of whiskers won't significantly weaken the cat's ability to catch the fall.
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jughead
Apr 24, 2004, 12:19 PM
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i do use my black Catcentrics quite a bit but i have to say my fav bit of feline gear is the tabbyscender cant find a better ascender anywhere, when used in conjunction with a a black lab/respray the speed of the device is incredibleit bites and claws into your rope brilliantly without damaging the core superb bit of kit ;)
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escale
Apr 24, 2004, 2:48 PM
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Well, I am logging in using my palm pilot, because I couldn’t get my $15 computer to work. So yesterday, I decided to take it apart and test each component separately. Here’s the report:
The power supply with all those wires coming out of it made a great square hex kind of thing that with some spectra cord girthed to it could be used, if properly placed. It fitted in some wedged cracks and although it kind of creped a little when weighted; it held strong. I took all the cards out and drilled holes in them and tied spectra cord to them as well. Naturally I used the trusty fisherman's knot. They held when jammed into vertical or horizontal cracks when tapped in like copperheads. Three of them worked well at the belay station when hauling up the trash can filled with water. I think I used the video card, the modem card and network card. The keyboard was the trickiest to use correctly. In a horizontal deep crack it fitted well and I could sling it on the cord end and it seemed to work.
Naturally the mouse worked well like a very large nut. It was a MS ball mouse and once, I took the ball out and wedged it in a small crack and then tied a sling to it. My partner was pi$$ed when he had to clean it. Needless to say, the harddrive, floppy drive, and Cdrom worked well as passive nuts in large cracks. I either girthed hitch them or drilled a 0.5 inch hold to attach a sling. The motherboard was a bit large but could be wedged in off-widths, and the memory was useful in real thin cracks. I use some 3mm cordage through the standard holes already drilled in the side. Oh, yes, and the L shaped access cover plates in the back could be used as fifi hooks for aiding, but I am not much of an aider so I gave them to my aid climbing friends. Naturally, all the cords were cut and were tied into loops using triple fisherman’s knots. So I have four new slings made from 2 power cords, 1 VGA cord, and 1- 25 ft 100BaseTX Ethernet cord, which will work as a cordelette.
I decided to use the monitor as a new boat anchor when I go fishing with my dad.
Anyway, I am still using that computer and will for a while.
BTW, I used to follow a gecko as second, man that guy make climbing look easy, he can hang on the thinest edge and he moves fast. He hardly left any pro to clean.. Following him was he11. I don't think I will take a gecko as a partner any more.
I like climbing with mountain goats as partners. They can get on some stuff that I can at least follow. And they can carry some heavy gear for that long haul. My problem was they are always stopping to nibble on some grass, and learning to speak goat was hard for me to pick up. Thank goodness I can tell the difference between “belay on” and “Belay off”, they sound so similar.
Sorry this is so long. I probably should have made a gear report and just submitted a link. I’m waiting for a response from R&I for an in depth gear article I submitted. Wish me luck.
---Escale
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traddaddy
Apr 24, 2004, 2:49 PM
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Catcentrics are good for equalizing two opposed piece of gear.
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imnotbob
Apr 24, 2004, 4:23 PM
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I've had some success with the new Moustolius pieces I picked up on (get'em with the extra long tails). They seem to squeeze into some really suprisingly tight spaces - not as easy to clean as the Catcentrics (which aparently just need to be licked to clean) but lots lighter and cheaper!
The white ones look GREAT used with red webbing (kinda like Christmas!) but DON'T be tempted - no need to rehash that old topic - search the archive if you need to.
One word of caution though - rack them on the opposite sides of your harness as your Catcentrics - if you don't, it will come back and bite you in the ass.
For those of you still debating the toy biner and collie issue - you may want to check out BD's Fifi Hook.
be safe!
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studuk2000
Apr 24, 2004, 7:10 PM
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just a thought for anyone using cat placements, i have found that the way to solve the problem of them always wanting to land on their feet is to amputate them. this also solves the problem of them walking into cracks when placed! also means that you dont need to keep trimming their whiskers so much less hassle all round.
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akclimber
Apr 24, 2004, 8:39 PM
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It official. This thread is way to long.
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jughead
Apr 25, 2004, 8:16 AM
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yea it is lol, btu we shall keep going till we are locked!
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imnotbob
Apr 25, 2004, 5:42 PM
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As this thread winds down to an end, we would like you to know that no animals were harmed during the writing of this disclaimer.
Climbing is STILL dangerous, but especially dangerous when using trash cans, domestic animals, computer parts, ethics, and red webbing. (please note: toy biners may also apear on this list in the future - there is still a great deal of research that needs to be done first though).
For all the fine print, please go to:
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?NoAnimalsWereHarmed
Thank you.
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traddaddy
Apr 25, 2004, 6:49 PM
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Parental supervision is required...
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sarcat
Apr 26, 2004, 1:49 PM
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Thank you all for clarifying my cat question. My rack now contains countless legless, whiskerless CatCentrics with a few Mouseotoliouses on the oppisite side (Don't want bit in the a$$).
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climbinginchico
Apr 26, 2004, 5:50 PM
Post #147 of 197
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Where do you rack your yellow painted black labs? Don't they chase the Mouseotoliouses or the catcentrics? you must have an interesting rack! I cant figure out how to get the labs not to chase my other pro. They dont particualrly like the vampire bats either... and the bats reduce the expansion range of my other pro- im gonna have to figure something out there....
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sarcat
Apr 26, 2004, 5:56 PM
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The yellow labs go on a gear harness. I wear it specifically for the bone eaters. I've thought of switching it 'round for better ergonomics but the thought of having the Mouseotoliouses near my tities makes me uncomfortable and I don't mind dog breath as much as cat breath.
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clmbngfiend
Apr 26, 2004, 9:51 PM
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Well, as one of the researchers that participated in the experiment that started this whole thread I want to say one thing. Thank you. I had no idea that something so seemingly small could produce such amazing results. The amount of information that has been provided here is mind boggling. Never before has there been such a compendium of fact based information on protection. I hope that the support shown here inspires you to go out and do research on your own. While quite a bit of knowledge has been shared with us, there is so much more out there. Like, the benefits of using a lab over a doberman. Sure, we all do it, but why? There has also been a general sense of disregard for the insect world in climbing today. Some say its cheating, others say it makes the sport safer. Is it safer, and if so is the sacrifice in ethics really worth that increased margin of comfort? So I urge you, take up the sword, pick up the gauntlet, shoulder the burden, because if you don't who will? Give back to the sport that has given you so much
Peace
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katydid
Apr 26, 2004, 10:05 PM
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In reply to: There has also been a general sense of disregard for the insect world in climbing today. Some say its cheating, others say it makes the sport safer. Is it safer, and if so is the sacrifice in ethics really worth that increased margin of comfort? So I urge you, take up the sword, pick up the gauntlet, shoulder the burden, because if you don't who will? Give back to the sport that has given you so much Peace
Now that you mention it, I DO like to paste spiders.....
k.
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