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chupa
Apr 27, 2004, 2:33 PM
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Ok. I have a question for everbody out there that gives such a damn about fertility to impose your views upon someone else. First I'll give you my personal situation. About a month ago I had a vasectomy. I didn't feel like telling anybody because I didn't see the big deal in it. I just don't want any kids and especially no "accidents." So a friend of mine asks me if I ever went through with it thinking I would chicken out. I told him I did and he said I was stupid because I might want kids in the future. (If I don't want kids and end up with one that would be even worse in my eyes). So he proceeds to tell a couple other friends and eventually my family finds out. OK. So now I'm miffed. They're all pissed saying that I'm to young and I don't know what I'm doing. What about grandbabies..yadda yadda. So I figure it will all simmer down eventually. Well, some genius decides to leak this to my girlfriend of 3 years (who was finishing up a couple projects at ASU at the time, so she had no idea I was even planning this). Well, she gets back here and has a FIT! Saying that she might want kids some day and that I'm screwing with her life. She breaks up with me Saturday and is flying back to Arizona next week. Not that it's a huge deal, it's not like I haven't ended relationships before. It's just that this is a dumb reason.
OK. First of all I would like to state to all you girls out there, if your boyfriend/husband decides to have this done:
1:he does not need to consult you about it or get your "approval"
2:Who cares?
3:It has nothing to do with you
So my friend that told everybody is now out of my life. It wasn't a huge deal but he said he felt it is his duty to tell any of my future girlfriends that I had this done. I told him not to and he said it isn't fair to the girl not to know. I figure that if I don't tell her and she comes home pregnant one day I will know for sure it isn't mine and kick her to the curb. If she knows then she'll run out and get an abortion before I found out. Now which situation is fair?
Anybody have any opinion on this? I would like to know why someone would have this stance. In my friends case he is being an A-hole. In the (ex)girlfriends case, she's just being a shallow chick. That's my view.
2:It is none of your business
3:
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dookie
Apr 27, 2004, 2:43 PM
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it's a personal decision.
bottom line.
However, if you are married and have discussed having children or know your wife wants to have children, while I don't think she should have to sign consent, I do feel that in a good relationship you should talk about things like this before doing them. Otherwise, I would count on your wife throwing in the towel after finding out you sterilized yourself without talking with her about it first. But your friends? It's not their life, they're just being stupid.
If you had spoken with your girl about kids, or knew that she wanted them - then you can count on her being upset about it. You just made the decision a lot easier for her though ;) It's not shallow for her to think about her life - maybe she hoped that things with you would be a lifelong committment or something.
how old are you btw? Generally that's not something I would think guys should do until they are older - there's always birth control and condoms, and it's not like you're protecting youself from getting std's just by getting a vasectomy...
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coach
Apr 27, 2004, 2:59 PM
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Chupa,
It's your decision. I had it done after the birth of our second child. We simply didn't want any more kids and it was far easier for me than her. We never told any family and once in a while got those "Going to have any more kids?" questions which we handle by saying two was enough.
As a single guy it's your decision alone and your ex friend is an idiot. If you ever have a serious relationship it is something you should tell her, but in your own way and time, she shouldn't hear it from some "friend". It is something she deserves to know though.
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camhead
Apr 27, 2004, 3:10 PM
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dude, that sucks that yer friend blabbed to the world about it, but I would not stress the girlfriend thang too much. You and her obviously had different goals in the relationship, and it would have come up sooner or later. If I may make an uninformed generalization, if she dumped you over a vasectomy, I would see her as a prime example of someone who might have had an "accident" and forgotten her pills or something later on. Bad deal, and those types are not worth fucking with.
anyway, they do have reversal surgery for it as well. I see billboards all the time in rural texas for it. not that you want to be like a rural texan. hehe.
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micronut
Apr 27, 2004, 3:14 PM
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I would have frozen some sperm before I had the surgery. Then, later, if my female started getting all nesty, I could just pull out the turkey baster and it's on.
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calamity_chk
Apr 27, 2004, 3:21 PM
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sounds to me as if you did the procedure to catch someone cheating. sad.
as for the gf, if you were aware of the fact that she wanted children someday, then telling her about your desire to not have kids and to have a surgical procedure preventing it probably would have made things easier. if my SO of three years did something like that without letting me know that it was going to happen, i'd be hurt. not because i feel the need to approve anything, but because it's a trust issue. how many other things is he hiding from me?
same thing goes for future gf's. if they want children, then you're being unfair and dishonest if you allow them to believe that you'd play along. a) you've had a medical procedure to prevent this, b) you obviously loathe the thought of being a parent. the least you can do is to be honest with her and yourself about your thoughts of parenthood. people dont have to approve, but honesty is one of those things that's usually a pretty key ingredient to have in a healthy relationship.
on the flipside, there are plenty of women who dont plan to have children. these women would likely be thrilled to know that they dont have to carry the burden of contraception control for a change.
just my .02
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erica44
Apr 27, 2004, 3:29 PM
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In reply to: sounds to me as if you did the procedure to catch someone cheating on. sad. as for the gf, if you were aware of the fact that she wanted children someday, then telling her about your desire to not have kids and to have a surgical procedure preventing it probably would have made things easier. if my SO of three years did something like that without letting me know that it was going to happen, i'd be hurt. not because i feel the need to approve anything, but because it's a trust issue. how many other things is he hiding from me? same thing goes for future gf's. if they want children, then you're being unfair and dishonest if you allow them to believe that you'd play along. a) you've had a medical procedure to prevent this, b) you obviously loathe the thought of being a parent. the least you can do is to be honest with her and yourself about your thoughts of parenthood. people dont have to approve, but honesty is one of those things that's usually a pretty key ingredient to have in a healthy relationship. just my .02
100% agreed.
Erica
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coach
Apr 27, 2004, 3:34 PM
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Paul,
I see those billboards too. Usually right next to a Rogaine and a Viagra one! WTF? :lol:
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unabonger
Apr 27, 2004, 6:18 PM
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In reply to: Ok. I have a question for everbody out there that gives such a damn about fertility to impose your views upon someone else. First I'll give you my personal situation.
In reply to: They're all pissed saying that I'm to young
In reply to: I'm screwing with her life
In reply to: . She breaks up with me Saturday
The JudgeBonger
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wideguy
Apr 27, 2004, 6:51 PM
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Dude,
1) Absolutely your decision. But being in a long term relationship, if you knew or suspected she DID want kids and was envisioning them with you, you owed her the respect of letting her know that wasn't gonna happen alot sooner than you did. NOT asking her permissio, but telling her your decision. And she is perfectly justified in being pissed at how she found out and deciding to dump you to not waste time in her life.
2) Your friend was out of line to tell people. Especially your family. But again, YOU should have had the stones to tell the GF yourself.
3) Not your friend's job, but YOU should tell any future GF's very early on that you are out of the kid business. Even if she's a perfect match otherwise, if she wants kids and you can't, she desreves to know that up front. Women and kids... not something to toy with.
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robmcc
Apr 27, 2004, 7:07 PM
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My take:
No one has any right to push you to have children. If you don't want them, don't have them. Kids belong with parents who want to have them. There's nothing wrong with recognizing that you don't want them and choosing not to have them. Not everyone should be a parent.
As for your SO's reaction--that's totally valid, too. Just like no one can tell you _to_ have kids, no one should ever preclude her from having them if she wants to. Clearly, she wants to and you are no longer capable. With a snip and a tie you became a poor long term relationship prospect for her. IMO, the only thing that happened is that this event brought to the fore the fact that you are fundamentally wrong for each other. She wants kids. You don't. That's a pretty big issue. You feel strongly enough about it to get a vasectomy. She feels strongly enough about it to end the relationship. Game over.
Rob
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robmcc
Apr 27, 2004, 7:14 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: They're all pissed saying that I'm to young Clearly your friends are perceptive!
Just to throw in another data point, I have a relative who got a vasectomy early in his adulthood. Nearly 20 years later, he had it reversed and now has two children. It is entirely possible to be sure you don't want kids, then change your mind later. Vasectomies are not always reversable.
Rob
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olive
Apr 27, 2004, 7:25 PM
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whether you want kids or not is your business. However, if i was in a relationship for three years, i would have expected that my SO discussed important decisions in his life with me, again as others have underlined, not because you need approval but because your SO is someone who ideally shares an important part of your life. I found it strange that you did not even tell her what you were planning to do. Maybe you were not that close, I dont know.
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robmcc
Apr 27, 2004, 7:30 PM
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In reply to: However, if i was in a relationship for three years, i would have expected that my SO discussed important decisions in his life with me.
Good point, but I can't even imagine being in a relationship for 3 years without discussing whether I wanted to have kids. I'd have to say you're making a mistake if something like having kids is important to you and you don't manage to bring the subject up in 3 years, or if you answer a question like that with anything other than unalloyed truth.
Rob
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mountainchick82
Apr 27, 2004, 7:38 PM
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if it were my husband, yeah, i think then we would need to come to some sort of agreement. but a boyfriend, no way. we're not married and its his life.
also, if a girl ends up marrying you and wants kids its not like you can't adopt. there are more kids out there that need good homes that don't have parents and are in foster situations.
obviously the relationship wasn't all that solid if you couldn't work through something like this and you're better off not being together.
good luck, and cheers for standing up for yourself.
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vivalargo
Apr 27, 2004, 9:48 PM
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As the saying goes, "Tastes differ." If I'm good with my own decisions, I don't engage others in defense of my tastes or in rallying allies, nor do I hammer others whose tastes differ from my own. Living with the results of our decisions -- such as people leaving -- is what makes so many folks avoid making any definitive descisions in the hopes of having it both ways. But of course we never can, which means any descision will always narrow our options. So it goes . . .
JL
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timstich
Apr 27, 2004, 10:24 PM
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They can still stick a big needle into your nutsack (WOWZA HI YI YAAGA) to extract some sperm for artificial fertilization. I assume this is cheaper than vasectomy reversal, but have no idea. As for using a vasectomy to catch a cheating spouse/gf? Blood/DNA tests work fine for that.
But get this, if you are in a relationship, things like that are part of the deal. Don't spring surprises like this on anyone and act like this is kosher.
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danooguy
Apr 27, 2004, 11:21 PM
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Very interesting topic as posted by the author. Very revealing also.
First off, I agree with unabonger 100%
But I would like to comment on the way in which the facts were revealed in the author’s post:
In reply to: I didn't feel like telling anybody because I didn't see the big deal in it.
This might mean that the author did not want anyone to know, let alone comment on his decision, especially his sex partner. That tells me that he may not really want to commit to her or perhaps he does not want her to know that she is not important to him for a long term relationship…thus she is not a “significant other,” only someone to hang with and have unprotected sex with for the time being. Her feelings and desires for the future mean nothing to him.
In reply to: I just don't want any kids and especially no "accidents."
Accidents can be almost always prevented by communication with your sexual counterpart (welcome to the 21st century); that is just good common sense if you’ve decided to have sex with someone. I read fear of commitment into this line, or some of other type of fear…maybe I’m wrong. Clearly abstinence is not an option because he wants to have unprotected sex; he just does not want to have any consequences to deal with, no matter what and no matter how others might be affected now or in the future.
In reply to: Saying that she might want kids some day and that I'm screwing with her life. She breaks up with me Saturday and is flying back to Arizona next week. Not that it's a huge deal, it's not like I haven't ended relationships before. It's just that this is a dumb reason.
He is “screwing with her life.” She is dead nuts on the money (pardon the pun). He has eliminated a most important option from her life, if she considered him a serious candidate as a partner for life, and he did so without considering her at all. I admire her for her decision and the expeditious manner in which she executed that decision. It shows that she has pride in herself and her future. Procreation is one of life’s most powerful destinations for most people. That is not to say that it is for everybody and I respect the author’s decision, but I also respect his female counterpart’s decision to position him flat on his ass for the way he went about doing it.
In reply to: OK. First of all I would like to state to all you girls out there, if your boyfriend/husband decides to have this done: 1:he does not need to consult you about it or get your "approval"
2:Who cares?
3:It has nothing to do with you
1.Arguable at best.
2.Your potential mate for life or your spouse, other than that no one, really.
3.Only true if the relationship is casual and flippant, which is usually abnormal and uncommon for healthy people in healthy relationships.
In reply to: I figure that if I don't tell her and she comes home pregnant one day I will know for sure it isn't mine and kick her to the curb.
Here the author reveals his desire to engage in unprotected sex (with whomever) with zero consequences or responsibilities and his desire to maintain 100% control over both his destiny and the destiny of every woman that he will ever encounter. Amazing. Could he be more of a pig? And let me ask this question: Who is on the “curb” now? My answer: Precisely the person that should be on the curb.
In reply to: If she knows then she'll run out and get an abortion before I found out.
Both a first year psych major and a seasoned team of shrinks would have a field day with this comment and the one previous. Someone, somewhere along the line has caused some serious trust issues for this poor unfortunate male of the species. It hurts to even read such a thing.
In reply to: In the (ex)girlfriends case, she's just being a shallow chick. That's my view. 2:It is none of your business
He could not be more wrong.
Now he is alone. With his attitude and his approach to life and the female of the species, I would advise him to get very comfortable with the idea of being alone.
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chupa
Apr 28, 2004, 12:03 AM
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To interupt your post, I do not have unprotected sex. I wrap it every time. The problem arises when the protection breaks. Then you have a problem. I'm not really scared of commitment, I just got out of a 3 year relationship. I think that proves the commitment is there. Plus, is there any difference between what I am doing and if I happened to be infertile anyway and just didn't know it? Not much of a difference in my opinion. I don't plan on having unprotected sex, I just did the surgery as a backup to getting trapped in with someone I'm not going to spend the rest of my life with. So many women think it is their decision to make whether or not to have a child, the guy is left out of the choice altogether. So to sum up your summary, I am not afraid of commitment, I don't get torn up over breaking up, I like having one partner because it's safer (I don't sleep around) but there is no way I'll commit my life to some chick that will end up trying to change me. It's pretty darn easy just to go out and get laid, I want a little more than that, I just don't want a kid.
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danooguy
Apr 28, 2004, 12:18 AM
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In reply to: I just did the surgery as a backup to getting trapped in with someone I'm not going to spend the rest of my life with.
In reply to: ...I like having one partner because it's safer (I don't sleep around) but there is no way I'll commit my life to some chick that will end up trying to change me.
Allow me to reiterate the last sentence of my post.
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robmcc
Apr 28, 2004, 1:29 AM
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In reply to: He has eliminated a most important option from her life
That really isn't true at all. He eliminated her ability to have children with him. He did not eliminate her ability to have children period. Just with him. Since he so clearly has no intention of having children ever, anyway, what exactly did he do?
He answered that particular question in a crystal clear manner. No kids with him. Period. Ever. What he did is not, in my mind, much different from sitting her down and saying, "Honey, I'm never going to have children. I can't stand 'em. Don't want 'em. Won't have 'em."
As I said, he (apparently) doesn't want kids. She just as apparently very much does. These people do not belong together.
In reply to: if she considered him a serious candidate as a partner for life
Then hopefully they had the kids talk before now. If they didn't, they're equally at fault. I guess in my world, either potential parent has the right and responsibility to choose not to have children. Unless both choose yes, it shouldn't happen.
In reply to: I admire her for her decision and the expeditious manner in which she executed that decision.
Yep, agreed. He's clearly not someone she should be with.
Rob
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meataxe
Apr 28, 2004, 1:47 AM
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- vasectomy is not 100% effective, if I'm not mistaken
- you had surgery without telling your girlfriend? sounds like a relationship you don't particularly value.
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scubasnyder
Apr 28, 2004, 2:21 AM
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read the post n like why
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danooguy
Apr 28, 2004, 11:05 AM
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In reply to: Then hopefully they had the kids talk before now. If they didn't, they're equally at fault. I guess in my world, either potential parent has the right and responsibility to choose not to have children. Unless both choose yes, it shouldn't happen.
A display of "logic" as obtuse as the author's.
Had the "kids talk?" When humans meet and size each other up, having children as part of marriage is normal; that one or the other is so adamantly against children that he or she has decided to render himself or herself sterile is something that should be discussed and revealed, not the other way around. In other words, it is presumed that you are a potential candidate for procreation from the start. Again, procreation is the norm and is expected to occur at some point in the future when the male and female of the species begin the dating/mating/marriage/live-happily-ever-after ritual.
Of course either can choose and has the right to NOT have children. However, in "your world" you presume that one or the other can make such a decision without so much as notice to the other, and further that one does not even owe notice to the other in any way. For a woman to presume that a young man, may not want children today, but may change his mind later, is also not at all uncommon. The female often presumes that as time and the relationship advance he will want to permanently mate and children will follow.
The age of the players has not been made clear in this post. However, when two younger people meet, if one or the other is not "interested" in having children, the presumption is that the lack of interest is due to the current status or inability to take responsibility for said offspring, not that one or the other will surgically and secretly eliminate any possibility of that option for the future. In other words, if one is 20 years old and in college, he or she may too immature to even think about having children. As he or she matures, he or she may re-examine that stance. Such lack of interest in procreation is commonplace during the period of relative immaturity that is adolescence and even ealrly post adolescence.
Simply put, when one chooses a mate for life, the concept of breeding with that mate is a consideration.
In reply to: That really isn't true at all. He eliminated her ability to have children with him. He did not eliminate her ability to have children period. Just with him. Since he so clearly has no intention of having children ever, anyway, what exactly did he do?
Here's exactly what he did: He proceeded, for three YEARS, along the path of a relationship which can and OFTEN does lead to a permanent relationship and children, and during the procession decieved and betrayed his potential permanent mate. If his deception and betrayal seems normal to you, I would submit that you also need to re-examine your stance toward the opposite of sex.
Of course, he eliminated the chance of procreation with HIM. Obviously that is precisely what she considered as an of several important options and factors in the list of prerequisites. Normal humans consider that option as an important factor in choosing a mate during the dating/mating years of the life cycle. Now if you'd like you can launch a discussion of what is and is not "normal." But in his case, he will have to do it alone, won't he? She, like most others, obviously considers procreation as part of the lifecycle as normal.
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cantbuymefriends
Apr 28, 2004, 11:26 AM
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In reply to: He answered that particular question in a crystal clear manner. No kids with him. Period. Ever. What he did is not, in my mind, much different from sitting her down and saying, "Honey, I'm never going to have children. I can't stand 'em. Don't want 'em. Won't have 'em."
Except that it seems like he didn't want her to find out.
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