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gogo
Apr 28, 2004, 4:13 AM
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Alright. I've heard a lot of people saying how they don't like boulderers b/c of how they act out at the boulders. So, I was wondering what people think the "ground rules" are for bouldering.
As far as I'm concerned, essentially its all about being polite, respecting the envirornment around you (no littering, etc.), and the boulders themselves. Me and my friends don't make tick marks when checking out new lines, but will clean moss off of boulders.
So what do y'all think are the basics of bouldering ethics?
Mike
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roughster
Apr 28, 2004, 4:52 AM
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In reply to: Alright. I've heard a lot of people saying how they don't like boulderers b/c of how they act out at the boulders. So, I was wondering what people think the "ground rules" are for bouldering. As far as I'm concerned, essentially its all about being polite, respecting the envirornment around you (no littering, etc.), and the boulders themselves. Me and my friends don't make tick marks when checking out new lines, but will clean moss off of boulders. So what do y'all think are the basics of bouldering ethics? Mike
I particularly enjoy the fact that seems like damn near every boulderer has two large dogs that they insist on bringing with them and are "well behaved and NEVER do anything wrong!" Meanwhile they just took a shit at the base of a boulder, chased off a squirrel, stepped all over some other guys pad and pack, and then bit a nearby child playing with flowers.
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roclimb
Apr 28, 2004, 2:03 PM
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Climbers here in PA feel the need to bolt boulder problems. Its happened several times at several areas. Thats just ridiculous ethics in my opinion.
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dingus
Apr 28, 2004, 2:45 PM
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No braided trails
No litter of any kind
No smashing veggies for pad placements
Minimal moss cleaning and almost no lichen cleaning
Not every lines needs to be cleaned and climbed. If a boulder has 5 problems on it already think twice before your ego demands you shave off 200 years of plant growth in 5 minutes scrubbing. Lichens are people too you know.
No cheater stacks of stones
No digging of ANY KIND to create interesting sit down starts
No prying with crowbars or other instruments of leverage
No glue. Period
No purposeful hold modification
No fixed anchors of any kind
Cheers
DMT
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overlord
Apr 28, 2004, 2:56 PM
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no tree removal
no excessive cleaning (to produce that extra crimper only you need)
no drilling
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photon
Apr 28, 2004, 3:10 PM
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don't listen to this whining
napalm, chainsaws and pitbulls oh yeah
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dontfall
Apr 28, 2004, 3:11 PM
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I agree with all that has been said. Just want to add something I do as of lately.
I clean off the route after I'm done climbing it. I don't scrub it down to the rock itself but I do not like to leave fresh chalk on the rock.
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deafears
Apr 28, 2004, 3:49 PM
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Cleaning the rock — whether on boulders, cliffs or big walls — is a topic worthy of discussion, but if you learn a bit about the local biology before you start scrubbing, the answers are often pretty clear.
Sometimes plants die in the name of recreation, and in most parts of the country, that's okay. For example, thousands of plants die when a trail recreational bike path is established — this occurs at a far, far higher rate than for bouldering/climbing. And it's justified because in temperate bioshperes, there is absolutely no shortage of the ferns, grasses, fungi, etc that inhabit the forest floor.
When people use the trails, they get to enjoy the land, and they come to know it and respect it better — the same goes for climbing (Prana-clad screaming teenage boulderers are people too).
In the northeast, southeast and northwest, there are no "rare" or "endangered" lichens living in forested areas. If every boulder worth climbing (and a few that weren't) were cleared of lichen in these regions, there would be literally thousands of tons of those same common lichens left.
So clean away in these areas (leave the vegetation on top of the boulders alone as much as possible -- 99% of it isn't rare, but it is pretty, and it takes awhile to grow back). Are there places in these regions where more concern is justified? Of course, but there's almost always an acceptable balance to strike beteeen recreation and preservation.
The areas of high concern are arid zones, mostly in the West. Alpine cliffs/boulders (eg Rocky Mountain National; Park) are very fragile, as is anything that lives in desert environments (eg Joshua Tree, Moab and Indian Creek). Throwing down your pad on tiny alpine flowers and scrubbing all plant life off a boulder at 9,000 feet is very poor behavior.
Rangers are justified in closing bouldering areas with special environmental concerns, and responsible climbers will respond to their requests.
Most recreation versus envrionmental protection questions can be solved with intelligent, balanced solutions. Knee-jerk responses, like "don't scrub boulders, ever" or "climb anywhere you want" don't show an understanding of either side of the story.
Learn about the environment in which you climb, and give land managers reason to see climbing as a legitimate recreational use of the land ... they'll be willing to listen to your solutions when conflicts arrise.
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evan
Apr 28, 2004, 4:08 PM
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Hey all,
Good posts everyone. I'm kind of surprised that dontfall was the only person who mentioned cleaning lines *after* you've finished climbing them.
Keep the tick marks to a minimum. I can't stress this enough. Two areas I visited last year had massive tick marks all over the problems, and it really looked like crap. Take into account the fact that not every boulderer visiting said area wants 12 inch chalked lines with arrows pointing out every single hold. There's something to be said about subtlety. You want to tick something? Place a goddamn dot, and wash it off afterwards.
deafears and dingus had good points about cleaning. Keeping in mind that every area has particular environmental ethics on what can and can't be cleaned, use common sense. I've seen a bit of useless and careless scrubbing, and again, it's completely unecessary. Don't Agent Orange an entire boulder on the half-assed chance that a mediocre line exists somewhere beneath the shrubbery.
- Evan
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fiend
Apr 28, 2004, 4:13 PM
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I always thought that tic marks defeated part of the purpose of bouldering. Climbing has always had a mental appeal to me... having to teach my body to remember exactly where that blind sloper was and hit it perfectly, etc.
Tic marks remove that aspect and seem to turn it into something purely physical with no thinking required.
Maybe that's why kids like bouldering so much.
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dontfall
Apr 28, 2004, 4:28 PM
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In reply to: I always thought that tic marks defeated part of the purpose of bouldering. Climbing has always had a mental appeal to me... having to teach my body to remember exactly where that blind sloper was and hit it perfectly, etc. Tic marks remove that aspect and seem to turn it into something purely physical with no thinking required. Maybe that's why kids like bouldering so much.
I totally agree. I hate to use tick marks myself, I try not to use them but if I must, I use a dot at the most. The crags I climb at have been climbed so much that it seems to be chalk is inbedded into the rock and there is no way of getting around it. :?
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jkarns
Apr 29, 2004, 2:28 PM
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In reply to: I particularly enjoy the fact that seems like damn near every boulderer has two large dogs that they insist on bringing with them and are "well behaved and NEVER do anything wrong!" Meanwhile they just took a s--- at the base of a boulder, chased off a squirrel, stepped all over some other guys pad and pack, and then bit a nearby child playing with flowers.
Get a life and quit the hating!!
While I get annoyed with dogs too, this NOT a bouldering problem. I feel especially bad for the dogs that are left at the cliff base while their owners go do some multipitch route.
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boulderman
Apr 29, 2004, 3:37 PM
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I'm calling for a truce here between boulderers and trad climbers. Both subdivisions of the sport are hand over hand and foot over foot, (climbing!). They are both physically and mentally demanding. Trad climbers enjoy their sport for many reasons and boulders enjoy bouldering for many reasons.
I haven't seen many boulderers abuse the environment or the rock while I've been climbing. I've read about chipped routes or boulders, but have never seen or heard of first hand. I don't think boulderers are apt to chip or glue any more than a sport climber. I think it's all BS and consider it vandalism. I guess gluing a broken hold back on should be up to the FA and the person who broke it.
As far as plant life I would agree with deafears. I also don't think the base of a heavily climbed boulder differs much from the base of a popular trad or sport route. Besides I've seen ropes and gear scattered across the forest floor at many trad crags. It's ugly and beats up a lot of plants.
I don't have a problem with ticking some feet here and there on a hard project. I am always sure to brush it off when I'm done though.
When we all use the woods and rock as place for recreation, some damage will occur. Cams and nuts have been known to break rock during falls just as pads have killed some plants. Mountain bikes and hiking boots do there fair share of damage too.
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brianmccully
Apr 29, 2004, 5:01 PM
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ethics= a communal set of norms/rules
morals= an individual set of beliefs, attitudes, actions
There will always be more moral people in any given set of ethics, I say we pay boulder police with the right to beat people over the head with sticks if they violate leave no trace ethics. Then on with the thought police
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photon
Apr 29, 2004, 8:54 PM
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I say we beat over the head anyone who uses violence as a means to protect ethics/moral values.
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brianmccully
Apr 29, 2004, 10:19 PM
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hope you understand scarasam the irish are famous for it
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gogo
Apr 30, 2004, 4:11 PM
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Well, gotta keep this one movin, cause I see a few conflicting views. One question I also have to ask is : Do people really feel that boulderers damage the envirornment more than other climbers? I understand that throwing down pads and cleaning/chalking boulders isn't great, but I don't think any climber can really leave no trace, know what I mean? Both sport and trad climbing affect the rock as well.
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gravy
Apr 30, 2004, 4:51 PM
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I think a lot of this goes back to the individual communities. The comments on the specific environmental conditions, plantlife & wildlife are very good, and this can often apply even to the "dog probem." (I can bring my dog bouldering with me, depending on the area, time of day, day of week, etc)
Climbers could stand to be more conscious of the approach trails to climbing areas. I've been inovolved in multi-use trail building & maintenance over the years, and have learned what a difference a little planning and foresight can make. The approaches to some of the newer bouldering areas I've seen are hideous. Steep grades and bad water runoff lead to erosion problems and wide, ugly trails over the years. Likewise, grid-pattern trail systems lead to wildlife fragmentation and in some cases can make the area unihabitable to certain species.
There are a great deal of resources available on the net about trail work, such as IMBA's website www.imba.com This is mostly mountain bike trail info, but is very thorough and applies to all multi-use trails.
If you climb on public, multi use property, consider volunteering for a trail work day with the Forest Service or whatever managing body your area falls under. They're usually underfunded, and always appreciate the help. Best of all, you'll learn more about your environment, and earn valuable respect for climbers, which pays off when access issues come up.
Have fun.
Likewise, we all have to strike a personal balance between our recreational benfit & the impact we make while doing it.
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gumbobob
Apr 30, 2004, 5:01 PM
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i disagree--lichen and Prana-clad screaming teenage boulderers are not people too--they are one and the same...
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gogo
May 1, 2004, 5:41 AM
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Ahh, so is your problem with boulderers or just with teenagers?
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gumbobob
May 1, 2004, 4:44 PM
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no--i love teenagers--as long as they are of the female sort! no i really do like teenagers (especially if they can vote--then you need to register!)
my problem's with the screaming--far too much of that lately. i've seen really good climbers pulling down realy hard climbs almost completely silent--maybe a grunt every so often...but you head out to the crag or the gym and hear everyone screaming on some silly 5.10 or v3 move--i just wish they would get over themselve, it's obviously done to get attention (look at me, im climbing so hard i need to scream) its silly...
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brianmccully
May 1, 2004, 5:49 PM
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It comes down simply to Leave no Trace Philosophy as outlined at
www.lnt.org
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punkrawkclimber
May 2, 2004, 8:45 PM
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Tics are weak man, and if you do use them you dont have to use chalk, just make a wet spot with a water . Thats what we do in the north it might not work in the desert or whatver but you can definatlly think of something else. Its called constructive thinking.
As for the whole ethics thing, don't walk around with the 'Save the trees, but nuke the whales' attitude. Don't massacre moss but have attack conscience with lichens. Expand your mind with different viewpoints and respect authority. Kinda sad when a seventeen year old has to tell you that. Regulations are tight up here; no pitons, bolts, or chalk. Plus the forest service isnt too stoked about breaking routes in or moss and lichen sweeping. But they are pretty cool when we put up with the the B.S. and follow the rules . . .then no one gets hurt.
good topic,
Patrick
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gogo
May 4, 2004, 4:43 AM
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Y'know, most all of these things can be applied to other types of climbing as well, so I'm having a hard time seeing why bouldering gets picked on so much.
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fckpolicebrutality
May 4, 2004, 12:46 PM
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In reply to: so I'm having a hard time seeing why bouldering gets picked on so much.
because you all hate us assholes at boldering.com...
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