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vertical_planar
Apr 29, 2004, 9:33 PM
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From time to time a mate might ask me to take him with me to see "how we climb those rocks". One or two of them might actually like it and stick to it.
I was trying to compose of a list of common mistakes that new climbers are likely to make and explain them to these mates so that they won't do them. Stuff not so obvious to someone with little climbing experience.
Some good examples would be backclipping, rappeling directly for a bolt (without using a carabiner) or rappeling in the SWAT way.
I am sure there are lots more...Any thoughts?
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climbhigh2005
Apr 29, 2004, 10:03 PM
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Let me think....
I cant think of any good ones... but yelling slack instead of take... ouch
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spivey
Apr 29, 2004, 10:08 PM
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I <3 rappeling the swat way ( I assume you mean jumping off the wall and not walking down it) it's not that bad assuming you KNOW your anchor is BOMBER
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dutyje
Apr 29, 2004, 10:10 PM
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Well, I classify myself as a n00b, so I'll tell you the types of things that I've learned -- either through my own mistakes or from the instruction of others.
1. Keep a close eye on your belay biner to ensure it doesn't get cross-loaded. I was surprised at how readily this happened. With good technique, it's not an issue
2. Don't step on the rope
3. Don't Z-clip
4. Learn how to climb without back-stepping
5. Make sure the rope to the climber is coming out the proper ("up") side of the belay device
6. Before you rappel, make sure the rope goes all the way to the ground
7. Never remove your brake hand
8. Maintain constant communication with your partner
9. Always back up your rappel
10. Know the rules of your crag/climbing environment (do I need to register before I climb? is it OK to sling trees? am I allowed to camp out? does it cost money? etc..). Remember -- you're only a visitor in another creature's domain
11. Make sure you are sufficiently equipped (besides the obvious needs for climbing gear -- water, food, first aid, extra clothes, light, fire even if it's just a day trip, compass, whistle, sunscreen, rain gear, etc)
12. Thoroughly evaluate all fixed protection -- don't trust it just because it's there
OK... sorry.. I got to rambling a little bit there. That's the best I could do off the top of my head. I'm sure that there's a lot more. The information above is limited by my experience. I guess the most important thing is to realize that you're never done learning.
I hope at least one or two of those is what you were looking for.
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dingus
Apr 29, 2004, 10:15 PM
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The most common mistake???
Easy, not watching the feet, (ie not climbing with the feet).
I teach new climbers to look down, not up.
Cheers
DMT
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climbersoze
Apr 29, 2004, 10:25 PM
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A lot of dutyje's items are perfect for people who are a little more advanced - and not exactly BRAND NEW.
The ones I have seen people do way to often the first few times out (since it usually only involves a TR - thus no worries about mistakes encoutner while lead climbing or following) are these:
In reply to: 2. Don't step on the rope
BIG ONE - I have a bad habit of taking girls climbing after a few weeks to see how they handle the outdoors and my passion - and I am always reminding them to watch their feet around the rope. Guess I should just date climbers only, huh?
In reply to: 10. Know the rules of your crag/climbing environment ....
Another requirement for "Into to climbin 101"
I picked those two out of the pack (of all good advice) because I have taken a lot of people out for their first time climbing - usually TR setups - and these are key basics for a first timer to be aware of before they even think of getting off the ground.
If you are taking them out more and more - progressivley bestow some more insight.
But again - if it is a one time trip to the crags to see if they are interested - don't bore them with technique or constantly correct them - let them have fun - but make sure they know the basics.
One key item that was left out is this:
Once a person starts climbing - and they get the bug - they begin to push themself - and then they try things they are not ready for and this increases the potential for injury or just an unsafe situation.
OK... my post is scattered.. but I am doing nikegirl's peepee dance.. I gotta go...
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davidji
Apr 29, 2004, 10:27 PM
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In reply to: Well, I classify myself as a n00b, so I'll tell you the types of things that I've learned -- either through my own mistakes or from the instruction of others. 1. Keep a close eye on your belay biner to ensure it doesn't get cross-loaded. I was surprised at how readily this happened. With good technique, it's not an issue 2. Don't step on the rope 3. Don't Z-clip 4. Learn how to climb without back-stepping 5. Make sure the rope to the climber is coming out the proper ("up") side of the belay device 6. Before you rappel, make sure the rope goes all the way to the ground 7. Never remove your brake hand 8. Maintain constant communication with your partner 9. Always back up your rappel
3. Mostly just a gym thing.
4. Why?
9. Always? If that's your preference, OK with me.
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muncher
Apr 29, 2004, 10:34 PM
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Don't fu#$ about at the top of the crag, especially if there are loose rocks about. Those little rocks you are sending down could kill or seriously injure a fellow climber. Just becuase you can't see anyone down there doesn't mean there isn't any one else around.
When belaying, give your complete attention to the climber. You have to realise that their life is completely in your hands. Try not to get in the habit of chatting away to friends etc, give the climber your utmost attention. Similarly, for others hanging around, don't distract the belayer, wait until the climb is finished then you start back up with the banter.
Not everyone is capable of belaying. Sure it is easy but some people just never seem to get it. I guess what I mean is don't trust everyone and anyone with your life.
Try and relax and keep your breathing strong while on a route.
Don't get yourself too stretched out, look around for foot holds and step up to get to the next hand hold instead of just reaching up.
Scope the route from the ground, have a look where it goes, what gear you may need etc before you step off the horizontal.
Remember that climbing is meant to be fun, kind of, in a strange way, but a little fear and pain is all part of what makes climbing so attractive.
Don't climb on your friends rope for your first year of climbing. Most people are quite happy to let you use their draws etc but ropes wear out. Consider how often you hang around on a route and how that could be wearing out the rope and go and get your own. They are expensive (here in Australia anyway) and it is not fair to whoever is teaching you, unless they specifically state it is OK, but secretely they are probably getting pissed off.
Thats enough for now, enjoy.
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climbersoze
Apr 29, 2004, 10:36 PM
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In reply to: 2. I agree that we ask people not to. Stepping on the rope is not a big deal though, unless it interferes with a belay or similar. It's polite not to do it, but it doesn't hurt the rope.
Remind me not to ever climb on your ropes... stepping on a rope can grind dirt into the sheath and abrade the sheath and damage the core - thus causing soft spots in the rope - which equate to "death on a string" if you take a big screamer. especially if your rope is flaked out on gravel or sharp rocks, or anywhere around sandstone.
I know it sounds like rope manufacturer propaganda... but it makes sense...
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muncher
Apr 29, 2004, 10:41 PM
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One more thing, if you are new to climbing and have found someone to take you out out and teach you, don't keep inviting more and more of your friends along. If thats what you want to do then go see a guide. Most people are happy to take new climbers out but not everytime and it can be quite frustrating to have complete begginners tagging along everytime, let alone the responsibility of having to look after a bunch of beginners. Make sure you let whoever is teaching you get on some climbs that are at their limit, don't make them become your belay slave. Some people are pushed for time and taking beginners out is not necessarily the most efficient way to get in a large volume of climbing in a short period of time.
As I said before, most people are happy to take new climbers out but you should show some consideration to your teacher aabd their aspirations as well.
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davidji
Apr 29, 2004, 10:50 PM
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In reply to: Remind me not to ever climb on your ropes...
In reply to: stepping on a rope can grind dirt into the sheath and abrade the sheath and damage the core
If you just meant it gets your rope dirty, which can eventually damage the core. OK. So does climbing. We wash our ropes from time to time and retire them eventually.
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freddys27
Apr 29, 2004, 10:58 PM
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I have always thought that the concern over stepping on the rope is that you might grind some sort of grit through the sheth of the rope and get it into the core where it can overtime cause damage. Really, thinking about it, I guess it isn't that big of a deal. It sure is one of my peeves though.
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dorkmaster
Apr 29, 2004, 11:20 PM
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i agree with the dont f#$@ around at the top of the cliff thing. Those little rocks hurt when the fall for a ways. I have a nasty bruise/cut on my leg from a pebble.
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mingleefu
Apr 30, 2004, 12:21 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: stepping on a rope can grind dirt into the sheath and abrade the sheath and damage the core Stepping on a rope can damage the core? You just pegged my BS meter. If you care to justify it though, I'm perfectly open to read your explanation.
It's a mathematical accumulation thing. One time? not bad. couple times? no worries. But if you make a habit of stomping dirt all over your rope, it will accumulate. Dirt is more than just soft powder that is fun to goosh between your toes when wet. It can also carry small sharp particles (or tiny pieces of glass or miniature chinese throwing stars) that can get lodged happily between fibers of your lifeline. Then you run that dirty rope under load through a biner a few times, using it over and over, and those particles get worked in deep and can start to abrade those fibers- both sheath and core.
At least that's the theory.
My unprofessional contention is that a rope that leaves your hands black after a belay (like one of my ropes does) should be washed. I doubt that the little grime will hurt it too bad between washings.
Even still, better safe than sorry. Don't turn rope-stepping into a federal affair, but really- how hard is it not to step on a rope?
no steppin', no cry.
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dynoguy
Apr 30, 2004, 12:23 AM
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Being annoying or Being cocky
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maracas
Apr 30, 2004, 12:32 AM
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In reply to: One more thing, if you are new to climbing and have found someone to take you out out and teach you, don't keep inviting more and more of your friends along
Unless they are girls...
That is how I met my girlfriend any way, so I say girl friends are always invited.
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boulderqt
Apr 30, 2004, 2:12 AM
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"2. I agree that we ask people not to. Stepping on the rope is not a big deal though, unless it interferes with a belay or similar. It's polite not to do it, but it doesn't hurt the rope" davidji
stepping on the rope is a big deal it can grind little pieces of dirt into the sheath of your rope once the dirt is in there it can cause damage to the core by cutting the fibers making the rope unsafe to use for climbing eventually :roll:
Be Smart it could be the difference between life and death :!:
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dutyje
Apr 30, 2004, 2:48 AM
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You caught me, davidji -- #3 is totally a gym thing. But I did it. I'd also learned how to fix it, so it wasn't a big deal. I think #4 is extremely important. This was also a problem for me for a while. This came from the definition of back-stepping as having your leg "between the rope and the wall". More accurately, it's placing your leg anywhere such that when you fall the rope could stop you from falling cleanly, and potentially flip you over. Fortunately, I never fell when I was backstepped.
Also, muncher, I can't believe I didn't think of that. The first place I climbed outside (recent) was a fairly easy hike to the top of the crag. You set up top-ropes then walked down and round to the bottom to start climbing. Anyway, the area is very busy with climbers and non-climbers on the top of the wall. Kids and their parents hang out at the top of the climbs, knock off (and sometimes throw) loose stones, etc. One of the other n00bs in my group was pitching stones off the wall himself. I was stunned!
** Warning: Long-winded rant about stepping on ropes to follow. **
This whole "don't step on my rope" business has gotten a lot of mileage on rc.com these past couple days. I'm going to stay out of it, but offer one suggestion -- can't we all just agree that recklessly walking all over each others' ropes is both rude and very poor style?
As an example: not that I'm a golfer (in fact, I've got a set of old crappy clubs to sell if anyone's interested), but I do recall that it's both rude and very poor style to walk all over somebody's line on the putting green. The odds of me landing that 30-foot putt are virtually zero, but I'll still be annoyed that you walked on my line, and maybe I'll blame you when I miss the putt.
Back on the climbing -- I'm not going to retire my rope just because somebody stepped on it. I'm also not going to have any major concerns with respect to its safety. By the same token, I have absolutely no scientific evidence (nor motivation to get any) that stepping on a rope will or will not harm it. I can say that I'll try my best not to insert any further unnecessary variables into the equation by smashing dirt into the rope. Even if somebody tells me they don't care if I step on their rope, I will stay off the rope. There are usually (keep in mind, I'm a n00b) lots of safe places for me to walk that aren't where somebody has chosen to flake out a rope.
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simianboy
Apr 30, 2004, 3:30 AM
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It's great that you're able to bring all these newcomers to climbing. I have a lot of trouble convincing people to try.
Just remember that beginners are going to have trouble remembering too many things all at once. So, while it's nice to compile a big list of booboos you can watch out for as a teacher, don't bother going through the list with them item by item. It'll be too much to remember.
If they can tie a figure-8 knot and belay safely on top-rope (and lower someone off, of course), that's a great first day already.
Have a good weekend :)
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tim
Apr 30, 2004, 3:33 AM
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has someone already added 'reading rc.com' to the list?
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maww
Apr 30, 2004, 4:01 AM
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As a self-proclaimed noob, thanks for the tips! These are great - sound advice. Muchas gracias.
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davidji
Apr 30, 2004, 4:54 AM
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In reply to: I think #4 is extremely important. This was also a problem for me for a while. This came from the definition of back-stepping as having your leg "between the rope and the wall".
I did a quick google search (+backstepping +climbing), and all the hits I checked were for using the outside edge of the foot. I think your definition is obscure.
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dutyje
Apr 30, 2004, 11:24 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: I think #4 is extremely important. This was also a problem for me for a while. This came from the definition of back-stepping as having your leg "between the rope and the wall". That's a new definition to me, which is why I wondered about that one. Now I understand what you meant. The only definition I've ever heard for "backstepping" was standing on the outside edge of your foot. A very common beginner mistake is not to do it enough. I did a quick google search (+backstepping +climbing), and all the hits I checked were for using the outside edge of the foot. I think your definition is obscure.
Obscure? More likely, it was just wrong. There's a word for it, I'm sure. Maybe somebody else has a word for it? Maybe I'm just full of it?
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adamscityclimber01
May 1, 2004, 5:44 AM
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oh boy... the biggest problem i had when i first started climbing was not using my feet. I would just try to power my way up. I would lock my arms on everything and ware myself out really fast. The other problem i still have is breathing and knowing when to chalk. :roll:
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fiend
May 1, 2004, 1:50 PM
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Some of you people need to start instituting the Beer Rule.
Everytime someone steps on your rope they owe you a beer. They may have a rough first day of climbing but after you hit the pub that night and they have to foot the tab, you'll never see them on your rope again.
When I took my TR lessons the instructor gave us this rule. On the first day there were a couple of bumblies that he was constantly busting for stepping on the rope. That night we all went to dinner. Since he couldn't drink enough to cover the amount of beers he was owed, he had a very nice steak dinner and as much beer as he could drink and still be able to work the next day completely payed for.
The next day.... funny thing, those bumblies with lighter wallets didn't step on the ropes again.
Whether it's harmful or not, it's still considered bad form.
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