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bighigaz
May 13, 2004, 6:41 AM
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I've heard so many lashings against new climbers lately that I'm almost sick to my stomach. All of us have to go through the beginning stages, and here is my point:
THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH BEING A NOOB. I started climbing 16 years ago, but I would hardly consider myself anything but. The moment I change that, I'm sure my own pride would kill me, literally. Don't get me wrong, I like to brag, but I'm tired of a certain trolls disrespect for "any one who doesn't climb solid 5.9 trad."
I want to reiterate what I believe is a valid point, and a repeat to a previous post:
I respect ANYONE who has the courage to try climbing, even once. "nOObs" and the like have my utmost respect, (which isn't to say that I have to take advice from them.) I've got a few years of climbing under my belt, but I'll ALWAYS be a nOOb!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (No matter how much I learn.)
I've worked in highly dangerous environments in the past-- specifically: training "nOObs" to work around commercial aircraft, running engines, and unforgiving enormous machines, in a noisy, extremely hot, environment. These "greenies" as we referred to them, were so aware of their inability to be safe without the help of others (and so worried about getting "sucked in" to an engine), that they were rarely the cause of serious or deadly accidents, even for months after training. Infact, more that 90% of accidents on the tar-mac were due to overconfident veterans who get puffed up in their own knowledge of their profession. Recognizing that we can make serious mistakes at any point on our journey of learning is essential to make sure we KEEP learning.
Humility and knowledge are a lifesaving team, together they make wisdom. Separately they are ignorance and arrogance, respectively, and amount to NOTHING.
All trolls are now welcome to proceed:
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roughster
May 13, 2004, 6:58 AM
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Agreed. It is always one of my favorite reminders to those getting upidity, "We all started as NOobs at one point in time." I have never understood the elitist prick stance that many people like to take.
I am always open to new ideas, and I think its great that other people approach problems differently than I do. Who's to say that the next NOobie that comes along isn't going to be the one to invent the "next big thing"? What exactly is the point of trying to act as Mr Bad Ass Know It All Climber? Do they hand out awards at the Elitist Prick Banquet at the end of the year?
Recommending caution when someone is doing/suggesting something dangerous is one thing, telling them that "iIf you don't know, you shouldn't ask." isn't acceptable IMO.
Anyways... I'll join you in your Toast to the nOobs!
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coldclimb
May 13, 2004, 6:59 AM
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w00000000000t!!!!!!!!111
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climber49er
May 13, 2004, 7:13 AM
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I... as a verifiable noob.... hereby salute myself!!!
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myhandshurt
May 13, 2004, 7:21 AM
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Plus nOOb rhymes with bOOb and who can argue that coincidence?
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micahmcguire
May 13, 2004, 7:50 AM
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HA! Wow, what a kooshie speach! Well meant and true I am sure, but come on people. If these "Noobs" (I hate that word-with a passion- goddamn internet lingo tripe) are so personally taken aback or discouraged by what some bozo on a website tells them, they need to reassess their own sense of self-worth.
Go climb, have fun, and don't let anyone push you around or tell you what you can or can't do!
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simianboy
May 13, 2004, 12:10 PM
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I'm a noob, I pull plastic every week and I don't climb trad.
If this annoys anybody....yay!
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p_grandbois
May 13, 2004, 1:32 PM
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Just to continue the support, I fully agree. We were all nOObs at some point and everytime we go to a new grag we are nOObs again. Lets just all simmer and do what this site was made for. AWARENESS, COMMUNICATION and HELP (instruction)
The forum dogs that cut up nOObs are pricks, those who put the "please do a search" are fine but the "DO a godammsearch you idiot"crap has to stop. Point them in the right direction, don't cut them for your own self worth. We all need to learn, and in the end we are all CLIMBERS, so lets just make fun of other sports, not our own people in our own sports
Hey that might be a good idea for another forum. A Venting forum, where we just rip up another sport or just vent. HEY ADMINISTRATORS heads up
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addiroids
May 13, 2004, 1:39 PM
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Being a noob is a state of mind, not your status as a climber. You can be a beginning climber, but if you have your ethics in place, and are trying to learn how to be better, then you are not a noob. However if you are some gym rat that spouts about wall climbing, then you are a noob.
TRADitionally yours,
Cali Noobbag
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katydid
May 13, 2004, 1:49 PM
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In reply to: Hey that might be a good idea for another forum. A Venting forum, where we just rip up another sport or just vent. HEY ADMINISTRATORS heads up
We have that forum. It's called "Community." ;)
And here's more props to the n00bs. My partner and I took two guys out last weekend for their first time on real rock. They were super eager to learn, asked loads of questions, and had a great time. Because of that, WE had a great time, too. And we're going climbing with them again on Saturday. Good stuff.
k.
Perman00b
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escale
May 13, 2004, 2:02 PM
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Everyone was at one time a n00b. Bashing n00bs is like kicking a person with a handicap. N00bs are not ignorant, they are just informationally challenged climbers who are trying to become more informed about this sport. Every time I go to a new area, I’m a n00b on someone’s local rock. Yeah, when I try to onsite some route you set, I might accidentally skip some cool jug or some needed side pull, but that just means I am slightly handicapped in seeing or feeling for these holds. Yeah, I’ve made some mistakes. Anyone who hasn’t is lying to himself or herself and that is another mistake as well.
I would rather climb with someone who is constantly thinking and trying to be aware of everyone and is looking out for potential dangers. Those people are open to new ideas and are ready to learn new stuff. Some of my fellow n00bs have come up with some great ideas.
Some of these elitists really do scare me. Although, I’ll listen to what they say, if they have been there before, but I don’t try to follow them when I know it is beyond my abilities, either physically or mentally. If you were abused as a n00b, then I’m sorry, but bashing other n00bs will not take that pain away. Try to visualize that you now have gained great experience, power and information you can share. “With great power comes great responsibility.” I think Scooby told Shaggy that in episode 19, and we all can learn from that.
Good luck n00bs, keep becoming informed, your life will depend on it. I consider myself a n00b as well, I will forever be. Everyone is a n00b at something. I climb, but dream one day of glacier climbing. If and when I get there, I will be a n00b on the ice and snow.
( is informationally a word?)
---Escale
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j_ung
May 13, 2004, 2:13 PM
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Here here! Don't sweat the a-holes!
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fitzontherocks
May 13, 2004, 2:20 PM
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Well, I'll be dipped! A thread that's NOT antagonistic or condescending. How did that happen here? (And props to bighigaz for mentioning the unmentionable.) There. I said it! Hug a nOOb! Hip hip hooray. Hip hip hoo... Ooo say can you see, by the dawn's early light...
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nnichols
May 13, 2004, 2:21 PM
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bighigaz - nice post :D
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phaedrus
May 13, 2004, 2:53 PM
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I think this little tidbit probably offers a good way to look at being a noob vs. being an expert, particularly appropriate since we as climbers talk a lot about the "zen" of climbing:
Beginner's Mind
By Shunryu Suzuki
It's hard to keep our mind
And practice pure in its fundamental sense.
In Japan we have the phrase shoshin,
which means 'beginner's mind.'
The goal of practice is always to keep our beginner's mind.
You might easily lose your original attitude towards it.
For a while you will keep your beginner's mind,
But if you continue to practice,
You are liable to lose the limitless meaning of original mind.
For Zen students the most important thing is not to be dualistic.
Our 'original mind' includes everything within itself.
It is always rich and sufficient within itself.
You should not lose your self-sufficient state of mind.
This does not mean a closed mind,
But actually an empty mind and a ready mind.
If your mind is empty,
It is always ready for anything;
It is open to anything.
In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities;
In the expert's mind there are few.
If you discriminate, you limit yourself
If you are demanding or greedy,
Your mind is not rich and self-sufficient.
If we lose our original self-sufficient mind,
We will lose our precepts.
If you keep your original mind,
The precepts will keep themselves.
In the beginner's mind there is no thought,
'I have attained something.'
All self-centered thoughts limit our vast mind.
When we have no thought of achievement,
No thought of self,
We are true beginners.
Then we can really learn something.
The beginner's mind is the mind of compassion.
When our mind is compassionate, it is boundless.
How important it is to resume our boundless original mind.
Then we are always true to ourselves,
In sympathy with all beings,
Then we can actually practice.
So the most difficult thing is
Always to keep your beginner's mind.
There is no need to have a deep understanding of Zen.
You should not say 'I know what Zen is,'
Or 'I have attained enlightenment.'
This is the real secret:
Always be a beginner.
Be very careful about this point.
If you start to practice zazen,
You will begin to appreciate your beginner's mind.
It is the secret of Zen practice.
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rrrADAM
May 13, 2004, 3:01 PM
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Well said... We all start climbing at some time, and nobody started climbing as a non n00b.
Seems like a few self righteous elitists think of themselves so highly they bash others. Funny part is that a lot of who they call n00bs can outclimb them.
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iclimblilrocks
May 13, 2004, 3:31 PM
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im a noob and i ask questions so i know what to do, and they get thrown back in my face. i mean when i ask a question i would like to get a honest answer not get insaulted.
that says alot about the rock climbing community. how do you want it too look?
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rocdaug
May 13, 2004, 3:56 PM
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I really liked the description of the "beginners mind" ...well said. :wink:
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usmc_2tothetop
May 13, 2004, 4:39 PM
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This thread is awesome......haha.
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the_pirate
May 13, 2004, 4:45 PM
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Tolerance for n00bs is one thing.....
But that white wine spritzer....... pinky, that's unacceptable.
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dutyje
May 13, 2004, 4:51 PM
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So I'm sitting here at work and I go to rc.com (like I do every morning, afternoon, and night). First thing I see -- a thread dedicated to me. I love you guys! I'm SUCH a n00b (you've all seen it in my sig line, and maybe somebody has even seen it in my profile).
How do I n00b thee? I got scolded at the gym last night for coiling (beautifully, I might add.. I'm very proud) a rope and then rolling it up in a tarp/rope bag.
How do I n00b thee? I learned and practiced the various friction knots by "rappelling" a total distance of 4 feet from inside the "A" of an articulating ladder.
How do I n00b thee? My gear is squeaky clean.
How do I n00b thee? I own rappel gloves, and use them on a 50-foot single-pitch descent.
How do I n00b thee? Until a month ago, "toe jam" meant something entirely different to me.
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usmc_2tothetop
May 13, 2004, 5:22 PM
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~~~~dutyje~~~~ RC.COM's own...JOE DIRT. hahaha JK. Welcome to the sight.....good luck....I'm glad you enjoy the sport.....I have much to learn as well.
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jprouty
May 13, 2004, 5:36 PM
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In reply to: How do I n00b thee? Until a month ago, "toe jam" meant something entirely different to me.
Teehee, "toe jam". Hehe.
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sarcat
May 13, 2004, 5:37 PM
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Since we are all confessing to being a n00b, I want everyone to go back and read their very first post. Was it stupid? Not that you weren't a climber for many years before you started posting on rc.com, but I've noticed most first time posters get the troll acusation.
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