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coldclimb
May 27, 2004, 5:19 PM
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OK, so these are two different systems that people use for different reasons. Now what about combining them? The comealong is pretty heavy and might mess with the line a lot while slacking, and it might just not be good to leave it on the line and subject it to all that stress, so what about this:
You rig an elington system with a few wraps so it will lock off on itself. Then you take the slack end from the tightening system, tie it into a comealong, and pull till the line is wire-tight. When you take the comealong out, the system is locked off, and super tight, and it only took one person to do it.
Anyone ever tried this? I'm kinda curious to know whether it would work or not. One person could set up some serious tight long lines like this, I'm assuming.
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slacklinejoe
May 27, 2004, 6:09 PM
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I've done it before. It was more hassle than it was worth since it took twice as long to rig and didn't really serve a good purpose.
For almost everyone a ratchet's weight (which isn't that much compared to using lots of biners) won't be noticed on the slackline, but for those who worry about it, you can always remove the ratchet and keep tension. Plus side is you get an equivalent of a 13:1 pull advantage for the cost of 3 biners.
Seriously I'm not trying to sell anything but I've developed several ways of removing any tightening system off the line while keeping tension on it and offering the hardware to do just that for a while. This might give you some ideas if you want to make your own:
http://www.slacklineexpress.com/slidelock.htm (the photos aren't ideal but they give the idea, I've made the design a little prettier since I took those pics.)
Those heavy duty slide-locks work on webbing similar to an ascender on rope, locks off the tension to another anchor point while you remove the system. At most you get 2" of slack from the transfer from the rotation of the lock and webbing stretch. You can do similar with a prussic but it curls you webbing in that spot. Or you can do it with a seperate biner clove hitched behind the tightening system but it won't be adjustable exactly where you need it so tying it off will take trial and error to get it right.
If you can't stand a ratchet on your line (symantics) you can always rig a 9:1 and remove the tightening system the same way as well.
There have been a few threads on doing that as well. Softpointing and removing pulley systems were mentioned.
Let me know if that helps or if it just served to confuse everyone. (Sorry for rambling, I'll be quiet now....)
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slackdaddy
May 27, 2004, 8:41 PM
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SLJ, claiming a ratchet doesn't weigh any more than a few beiners is completly false. Incorrectly tyeing a system to your refrigerator and then claiming it doesn't work as well as a ratchet is highly suspect. I have been slacklining for over twenty years. I have bought every strap handling tool I have ever seen for sale. I have owned two ratchets (just like the ones you're selling) for over ten years and I know how to use them. I never use these tools for tightening a slackline. If you had learned other techniqes before you jumped into the slackline biz you would have a different veiw. Without the little cam to reset the ratchet, a ratchet is completly useless as a slackline tool. If you imploy that same little cam under an Ellington and tye another Ellington to it you would end up with a very strong, light and simple system that you could tighten long lines with.
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slackdaddy
May 27, 2004, 8:48 PM
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At its core slackline is an exercise in balance and nuanced awareness. As your awarness increases you notice every influence on the line. The spongyness of car springs or heavy objects on the line are most unwelcome influences.
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slacklinejoe
May 27, 2004, 9:01 PM
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In reply to: If you imploy that same little cam under an Ellington and tye another Ellington to it you would end up with a very strong, light and simple system that you could tighten long lines with.
Scott, first off, I resepct your experience and time slacking. A lot of us don't take the sport nearly so personally and spritually as you and some of the other long time slackers - I think that's the seperation factor between some of the different camps of thought. Some of us just do it for fun - we worry about cost and ease of use much more than purity of the sport.
Your right, staging mutliple pulley style systems (like the Ellington) will result in much more pull than a normal 3:1. I've done that a lot lately playing around and I had to use a lot of gear to come close to the results I was used to. I admit, I'm cheap and pretty spoiled about not wanting to spend much and having high advantage with little rigging.
Also, please re-read that part about cost/weight. I said for the cost of 3 biners, not weight wise. As for weight it depends on which ratchet your talking about, I've got one I use regularly that weights about the same as 3 biners but it's only good for up to 30 feet. As far as the 2" variety I use to set big lines, they weight in heavier (just under 3 lbs) but to a lot of people the weight is justified for the additional advantage - just like using pulleys. Also, since it's so close to the anchor it doesn't produce much reverb in the line at all. I get more reverb from a 6:1 made out of biners since it puts weight further out the line. Either way, it's way less interferance on the line than wind - and I don't think we're going to complain or do much about wind flutter.
When I started making the removal setup I found that it was hard to tell the difference before and after feel wise. The key is, I started making those setups specifically because I knew other people out there wanted as little weight and metal on the line as possible - so I designed something for them even if I don't think that way myself. Size wise the 2" units I use still packs up a good deal smaller dimension wise than a double uplift pulley (about the size of a low top shoe).
As for using the slide locks for staging systems or other uses thats exactly what I was getting at - its a good idea or at least a general technique people should consider. Which is why I mentioned using it on such setups like a 9:1 or making your own setups utilizing similar techniques - it isn't particular to using it with ratchets at all. And if you can remove the ratchet completely from the line with minimal effort, why be so concerned about it - if someone is worried about weight on the line, its only a few more bucks to be able to remove the whole tightening system.
We could muck it out all day long and you'd still be on that side of the fence and I'd be over here. No need to be be confrontational about it, it's just a different perspective. The technique I mentioned could be used to benifit a lot of people regardless of their system of tensioning and I could a lot less if they bought any of the gear from me (if I was in it for the $$ I'd double my prices, sell 1 kit a week and make the same pay). As for saying ratchets are useless for slacklines - thats your opinion, which is fine - however stating it as a fact would be saying it doesn't work - but thousands of people have done it before I came onto the scene and I've got a few hundred happy customers using my gear who say it works quite well.
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slackdaddy
May 28, 2004, 5:41 AM
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I don't have anything against people using ratchets to tighten a slackline if that works for them. I'm happy to see anyone exicted about slackline. I do take issue with people spreading erroneous infomation. I have done a great deal of experamentation over a long period of time with no emotional attatchment to the outcome. This is typically considered a more truthful, and scientific approch to problem solving than to have a position all staked out and to work backwards to try and prove it. It is my belief that if the Ellington was well understood that no one would bother buying or selling ratchets for slackline. If your not getting good results your not doing it right. The biggest difference between the Ellington and the Ethos system is the use of 9/16ths super tape and the fact that you don't have to put each consecutive loop under the first. Simply clip the line around in a circle three times and pull. The outside line slips under the inside lines and locks off. I always clip two carabiners to the clove hitch (it makes it easier to get the knot out). If your not walking 9/16ths, at this point you could change to 9/16ths by clipping one clove hitch biner to a loop at the end of your Ellington line and then clip the anchor and back to the second clove hitch biner. Back to the anchor in a circular manner, three times round. Make sure when you are done you are pulling facing the line, not the anchor and make sure your circles favor whether your pulling up or pulling down.
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slacklinejoe
May 28, 2004, 5:55 AM
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Thanks for the more clear description - I think the biggest reason the Ellington is misunderstood is there are no sources (free anyway) for people to pick up a nice description & diagram. It's mentioned a lot of places but never with instructions.
Your description here is the only time I've ever seen it described in any detail - and I've looked. Thats why I had a disclaimer on the previous thread I was hoping someone else could add to it.
As soon as it quits raining (probably be a few days) I'll take pics and do a more real world tests for comparison and add the results to my rigging results page.
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japhyr
May 28, 2004, 7:52 AM
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Registered: Dec 27, 2003
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I put a 3:1 onto the tensioning end of an Ellington setup. It worked, but I noticed the webbing was really tweaking itself where it ran over itself. I wonder what that friction does to the webbing on such a high-tension setup. The webbing was all wavy where it had gone under itself. Any thoughts?
BTW I hurt my knee a month ago, and finally got back on a line for the first time tonight. I missed it, it was good to get centered and feel the calm of good balance again! (I did not hurt myself slacklining.)
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slackdaddy
May 28, 2004, 2:12 PM
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The Ellington can work a piece of nylon; it gets wavy, fuzzy, sometimes even burns. Just dedicate a piece for that purpose. It takes a lot to actually brake.
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