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nirvana
Jun 3, 2004, 3:32 PM
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I've been climbing for six months, and started leading a month ago. I lead 5.8/5.9 and top rope 5.9/5.10. Outside, I second, but when I climb with friends at the gym, they prefer to practice leading, so that's what we generally do. I wonder, though, if I would gain more, technique-wise, by doing more top roping in the gym. Is there an optimal ratio of leading to top roping?
Any thoughts on this?
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gds
Jun 3, 2004, 3:42 PM
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I think gym climbing is for training- meaning strength and endurance- more than it is for technique. So, while it may be fun and fine to do I don't think leading in the gym adds much to your training vs. TR'ng in the gym.
However, outdoors this is not the case and leading outdoors as much as possible will definitely improve your leading.
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fenix83
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Jun 3, 2004, 4:44 PM
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When I began leading, I did find it profitable to lead in the gym, for one basic reason, it allowed me to prcatcie my clips, making them mote efficient for the outdoors.
-F
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dirtineye
Jun 3, 2004, 5:34 PM
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http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=61450
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jt512
Jun 3, 2004, 6:01 PM
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In reply to: I've been climbing for six months, and started leading a month ago. I lead 5.8/5.9 and top rope 5.9/5.10. Outside, I second, but when I climb with friends at the gym, they prefer to practice leading, so that's what we generally do. I wonder, though, if I would gain more, technique-wise, by doing more top roping in the gym. Is there an optimal ratio of leading to top roping? Any thoughts on this?
How about leading 5.10 in the gym?
-Jay
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crazyfingers
Jun 3, 2004, 6:59 PM
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leading in the gym can also help with your "head" skills. It helped me to get used to being off the ground on the sharp end. Lead and push your limits, work projects (1+ your red point) on top rope.
My .02,
KT
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nirvana
Jun 3, 2004, 7:35 PM
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How about leading 5.10 in the gym? Seriously, though, that is my next goal.
I am still really struggling with my mind on all of this. Been reading Arno Ilgner's book and that seems to help a bit, but the bottom line seems to be that I just have to push myself, and eventually the fears will subside. Or else I'll just get used to being scared.
Well, since you all have been through this, here's another question: how long did it take for you to get past your fear of falling? I know there will always be moments when it's reasonable to feel scared--but as a new climber, I seem to be battling fear all the time. When does that settle down? Is it a normal part of the process or should I start saving up to see a shrink?!? :wink:
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betaben
Jun 3, 2004, 7:37 PM
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I'm not mich of a gym climber, When I do I prefer to toprope for the following reasons.
1.) I can climb harder routes, which increases technique. Try routes with holds that suit your weakness. That way if your having trouble with routes outdoors that have alot of slopers, work slopers in the gym. you'll have more confidence leading such routes.
2.) I can climb alot more routes, increasing endurance. this also is good if you have limited time.
3.) leading in the gym is completly different than leading outdoors. (period)
I'll probably get slammed for that but, it's true!!
Ben
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jt512
Jun 3, 2004, 7:53 PM
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In reply to: How about leading 5.10 in the gym? Seriously, though, that is my next goal.
I am still really struggling with my mind on all of this. Been reading Arno Ilgner's book and that seems to help a bit...
Have you joined the Warrior's Way forum on this site?
In reply to: ...but the bottom line seems to be that I just have to push myself, and eventually the fears will subside. Or else I'll just get used to being scared.
You can't think about the climbing and the fear of falling at the same time. The essence of the Warrior's Way is that if you find your thoughts wandering to falling, you direct your attention back into the climbing. Forcusing on the climbing excludes focusing on falling.
In reply to: Well, since you all have been through this, here's another question: how long did it take for you to get past your fear of falling?
I'm not "past" fear of falling, but I am learning to assess the risk of falling and to focus on the climbing when I decide to accept that risk (and usually the risk from a potential fall is low, at least for the type of climbing I do -- which, incidentally, includes trad).
In reply to: I know there will always be moments when it's reasonable to feel scared--but as a new climber, I seem to be battling fear all the time. When does that settle down? Is it a normal part of the process or should I start saving up to see a shrink?!? :wink:
I think it is a mistake to take a passive attitude and hope that the fear will subside of its own accord. Rather, you should take an active role in dealing with the fear. Practicing the Warrior's Way approach of assessing risk, deciding whether or not to accept the risk, and then focusing attention on the climb, should you choose to accept the risk, will help. Becoming familiar with falling is key, and you should incorporate practice lead falls into your routine at the gym. Start with tiny falls, if necessary, and build up the distance you fall as your confidence improves.
-Jay
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txclimberchick
Jun 4, 2004, 3:34 PM
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Well, I know for me personally, my fear of falling, especially in the gym, went away once I took a few falls. This is not to say that it never comes back, but I have learned to trust my equipment and my belayer, and that helps me out tremendously. Incidentally, I always climb differently when I have a less experienced belayer. Not intentional, but it happens.
Courtney
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mrtristan
Jun 4, 2004, 11:29 PM
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stay out of the gym, whatever that requires! seriously, its not worth it, gym climbing. climb outside as much as you can.
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hosh
Jun 4, 2004, 11:32 PM
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I usually just lead when ever I can. I like leading much more than TR'ing. I avoid TR'ing like the plague.
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killclimbz
Jun 5, 2004, 12:14 AM
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The more you lead the more comfortable you get with it.
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sarah
Jun 5, 2004, 12:18 AM
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right on, you can push yourself way harder on lead then you ever can on toprope
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climbingfreak45
Jun 5, 2004, 12:35 AM
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you may be able to push yourself alot harder leading, but TRing helps people less experienced get better.
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sarah
Jun 5, 2004, 12:41 AM
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you can never tap in to adrenaline on tr -top rope sucks- you will be doing yourself a great injustice to top rope- leading is safer your closer in to the rock not FLOATING OUT IN SPACE on top rope!!!
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climbingfreak45
Jun 5, 2004, 12:56 AM
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i see how it would be safer, but i disagree on the not tapping into adrenaline. i if am tearing up a route and hit a hard move, like a dyno or some other move, im gonna tap into adrenaline( mainly cause i hate dynos though har har har)
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sarah
Jun 5, 2004, 1:26 AM
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true- but you'll climb ten times harder knowing your ten feet above a bolt :lol:
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climbingfreak45
Jun 5, 2004, 1:28 AM
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true true-i get your point now
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jt512
Jun 5, 2004, 2:59 AM
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In reply to: leading is safer your closer in to the rock not FLOATING OUT IN SPACE on top rope!!!
You are delusional.
-Jay
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sarah
Jun 5, 2004, 3:03 AM
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well if your counting bolts your in more of them the higher you climb on lead -it's an illusion to think your safer on top rope
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jt512
Jun 5, 2004, 3:08 AM
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In reply to: well if your counting bolts your in more of them the higher you climb on lead -it's an illusion to think your safer on top rope
I wish that were true.
-Jay
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badass
Jun 5, 2004, 3:15 AM
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A high number of climbers have died due to top rope pendulums on multipich climbs because the belayer had to much confidence in the top rope and left a small loop of slack which was recently proven to produce suprisingly large amounts of force. If you lead with safe protection you are in many ways at less risk than the belayer particularly when the climber drops gear or dislodges a larger rock than a helmet can protect.
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robmcc
Jun 5, 2004, 3:58 AM
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In reply to: well if your counting bolts your in more of them the higher you climb on lead -it's an illusion to think your safer on top rope
Really, you're either trolling or clueless.
Rob
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rhu
Jun 5, 2004, 4:19 AM
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What jt512 said about the Warriors Way is dead on. Those 100 or so pages have helped me with my head an incredible amount.
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