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slablizard
Jun 21, 2004, 5:11 PM
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Sunday afternoon, 2 Pm, Luca and me are walking down the trail that goes down to the lower tier of Mt Diablo, my "home" crag, since it is just 30 minutes away from my house.
While avoiding the abundant Poison Oak we look at a party of 3 guys climbing up the 3rd grade scamble that goes up from the middle tier with great difficulty. Strange, if you're so desperate on 3rd you should not be there unroped in the first place.
We keep going. the lower tier is empty, fantastic, the wall is in shade and quiet, I get ready for the usual warm up on "Amazing Face" one of the greatest 10a ever. While I gear up another team arrives, they intend to set a TR and climb a crack round the corner.
I start my lead and when I get on top I find that they already set up their TR anchor to climb this crack right of "Dire Blow".
Luca TR the route enjoying every move while I belay enjoying the quiet.
I want to try the wall left of A. Face, I never climbed there yet, so I do A. F. again on TR to move the anchor left, over my intender TR. I set up my anchor around a big tree, being careful not to upset too much the bees buzzing around a big hole in the tree itself. I set the TR and rappel down.
Luca goes up the 10b diagonal crack, too bad you can’t lead it, there are no bolts and the sandstone is too soft for good gear placements. I start on Dinosaur a nice 11d face. Very, very interesting climb on micro-crimps and tiny pinches, lots of foot worg and a little runout at the end, I’m glad to be on TR while I struggle to unlock the sequence to get to the first bolt that is pretty high. I finally discover a simpler sequence a little to the right that makes getting to the first clip not so scary after all. I'll buy a stick clip and start trying this puppy on lead.
I manage to get on top falling a lot, this route has zero chalk on it and finding the right micro-crimp it’s really hard. This is going to be fun on lead.
Once on top I check the TR anchor and find one of the 2 locking biners I used to pass the rope into, has the screw open. First time the second locking biner has been actually useful.
Luca goes up a nice 10C left of the diagonal crack, finding his own way up for a little “adventure TR climbing” that he really enjoyes.
I start on a face left of the Diagonal following a line of bolts, but I can’t get past the second one. There’s a good crimp a nice foot hold, you adhere to the rock and stand up to reach…nothing…this feels hard, the crimps are even smaller than the ones on dynosaur.. Or maybe I’m a little tired after that 45 minutes struggle on Dynosaur.
I get off and try Dynosaur one more time, this route will be great to lead, challenging and scary. I’m very happy to have 2 hard routes so close from home. We pack and take off, the more I go to Mt Diablo, the more I like it. This small little crag does not stop surprising me, with technical, footwork intensive, hard routes (yes 11d on those micro-crimps felt hard) It will be my “backyard” playground for a long time. And there even are a couple of sections of the lower tier that are just waiting for a good brush work to clean the moss ( OMG :shock: yes I want to brush the moss! ) and some bolts.
I see at least 4 more climbs on the lower tier section. 8^)
I’ll have to drag that Roughster guy and his drill here one of theese days.
Luca and I close this perfect day with a bahia fresh burrito, a beer and “ Touching the void” DVD at his place.
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brutusofwyde
Jun 21, 2004, 5:23 PM
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In reply to: Luca goes up the 10b diagonal crack, too bad you can’t lead it, there are no bolts and the sandstone is too soft for good gear placements.
The diagonal crack is quite leadable, and the gear (if you use the right pieces in the flares) is quite good. I myself have lead it at least twice that I remember, and my climbing sucks. As I recall, there is also one bolt (no nut or hanger) near the crux about 3/4 of the way to the top. (but that could be gone by now and is not necessary for the lead anyways.)
Please don't grid-bolt the lower tier, nor increase climber impact in the area with excessive scrubbing on routes which were climbed long ago. Access and impact are always issues, even on public property (which this area is not.)
Other than that,
Good TR!
Brutus
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caughtinside
Jun 21, 2004, 5:26 PM
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In reply to: I’ll have to drag that Roughster guy and his drill here one of theese days.
Hah! Good luck! Why sink steel into Diablo when the DTSA has so much more to offer?
Glad you had a good day out there. You should have come out with us on Saturday though! 8^)
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climbinginchico
Jun 21, 2004, 5:26 PM
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Sounds like you had a good time Paolo. I will definitely have to join you there sometime- looks like we could definitely have some fun...
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hardmanknott
Jun 21, 2004, 5:31 PM
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In reply to: Please don't grid-bolt the lower tier, nor increase climber impact in the area with excessive scrubbing on routes which were climbed long ago. Access and impact are always issues, even on public property (which this area is not.)
I agree. More swilling, less drilling.
Hardman Knott
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slablizard
Jun 21, 2004, 5:35 PM
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I have no intention to grid-bolt (as someone already did on "the bolt route") the lower tier, just increase the amount of leadable routes on that beautiful piece of rock. I believe that the sandstone in the diagonal crack is too soft to hold a fall, but again I would NOT risk the mortla sin :lol: of ( OMG) bolting near a crack, that would be too much ( I know) for some trad hearths around here :) .
I believe that cleaning up the sections of rock currently covered with moss is not "increasing the climber's impact" but actually is "improving the climbing possibilities" of an area that I love.
Where can I find more informations about the Mt Diablo developers? who bolted those routes? You mean that Diablo is not public property?
Thank you.
Paolo
In reply to: In reply to: Luca goes up the 10b diagonal crack, too bad you can’t lead it, there are no bolts and the sandstone is too soft for good gear placements. The diagonal crack is quite leadable, and the gear (if you use the right pieces in the flares) is quite good. I myself have lead it at least twice that I remember, and my climbing sucks. As I recall, there is also one bolt (no nut or hanger) near the crux about 3/4 of the way to the top. (but that could be gone by now and is not necessary for the lead anyways.) Please don't grid-bolt the lower tier, nor increase climber impact in the area with excessive scrubbing on routes which were climbed long ago. Access and impact are always issues, even on public property (which this area is not.) Other than that, Good TR! Brutus |
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slablizard
Jun 21, 2004, 5:57 PM
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Yeah Chris, I love Diablo, and I'm sure you would enjoy it too. If you like crimpy technical climbing :)
In reply to: Sounds like you had a good time Paolo. I will definitely have to join you there sometime- looks like we could definitely have some fun... |
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brutusofwyde
Jun 21, 2004, 6:01 PM
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In reply to: I have no intention to grid-bolt (as someone already did on "the bolt route") the lower tier, just increase the amount of leadable routes on that beautiful piece of rock. I believe that the sandstone in the diagonal crack is too soft to hold a fall, but again I would NOT risk the mortla sin :lol: of ( OMG) bolting near a crack, that would be too much ( I know) for some trad hearths around here :) .
The Bolt Route on Lower Tier was originally a bolt ladder because it was originally an aid route. It is not an example of grid-bolting, since it predates nearly every other leadable bolted route on the wall.
In reply to: I believe that cleaning up the sections of rock currently covered with moss is not "increasing the climber's impact" but actually is "improving the climbing possibilities" of an area that I love.
Therein lies the heart of many of our access problems in the United States.
In reply to: Where can I find more informations about the Mt Diablo developers? who bolted those routes?
Ask around. Lots of the route developers from yesteryear still live in the Bay Area. Most competent guidebook authors can relate some history of climbing in the area as well. Sorry I can't provide better info myself.
In reply to: You mean that Diablo is not public property?
Mt. Diablo State Park is owned by the State of California, and in the past many of the State Park Managers have been less than supportive of the views, activities and impacts of climbers. Perhaps fortunately in this case, the "Boy Scout Rocks" at Mount Diablo are privately owned. At least they were the last time I checked. Best ask someone who is more up to date on the area though. I seldom climb there anymore, as the routes are way too hard for my creaking tendons and aching bones.
In reply to: Thank you. Paolo
You're quite welcome. Keep crankin'!
Brutus
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davidji
Jun 21, 2004, 6:06 PM
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In reply to: The diagonal crack is quite leadable, and the gear (if you use the right pieces in the flares) is quite good. I myself have lead it at least twice that I remember
Oh, and as for the bolting, I agree it would be troublesome to gridbolt Lower Tier. Among other things I'd expect it to cause access problems. Recently Brian Cork showed me a freshly drilled pocket on an existing traverse there, so apparently some questionable behavior goes on there already.
OTOH, the main rock damage and access controversy I've seen & heard of there are from top-roping, and the deep grooves it cuts into the soft rock. If there will be any climbing restrictions there, simply banning top-roping might be best--at least the slingshot-belay style; belaying from the top is less of a problem, as is TR solo. Worst is a man I saw belaying a kid by running a rope around the tree on the upper tier.
Oh, and speaking of retrobolting, I recently saw a bolt most of the way up Butt Face. IIRC it was on the right variation where it goes from slab to vert. Pretty high off the deck, but I guess it protects the only commiting move for that variation. What do y'all think of retrobolting existing top-rope routes? I imagine most disapprove. In this case, I think only one bolt was added.
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slablizard
Jun 21, 2004, 6:18 PM
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In reply to: The Bolt Route on Lower Tier was originally a bolt ladder because it was originally an aid route. It is not an example of grid-bolting, since it predates nearly every other leadable bolted route on the wall.
:shock: I struggle to understand why one would aid climb a beautigul 10c face. I generally use 8 of those 12 bolts.
Thanks for the info Brutus, and be sure I just want to make the place better for sport climbing, that is the mops parcticed activity there anyway.
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slablizard
Jun 21, 2004, 6:24 PM
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In reply to: OTOH, the main rock damage and access controversy I've seen & heard of there are from top-roping, and the deep grooves it cuts into the soft rock. If there will be any climbing restrictions there, simply banning top-roping might be best--at least the slingshot-belay style; belaying from the top is less of a problem, as is TR solo. Worst is a man I saw belaying a kid by running a rope around the tree on the upper tier.
I absolutely agree, the runnels on top of "DYnosaur" are incredibly deep, a 3 bolts anchor would have created a lot less impact on the rock than the continuous TRing produces.
Same goes for all the other TR routes. TRing is not the best way to not impact the place, having camo bolts and anchor would be a lot safer and better, it would alsoo encourage people to lead instead of TR.
I would take 4 bolts off "bolt route" add an anchor on top of the diagonal crack (so that you can TR without swinging that much) and an anchor on top of Dynosaur, to avoid the impact on the edge.
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brutusofwyde
Jun 21, 2004, 6:27 PM
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In reply to: :shock: I struggle to understand why one would aid climb a beautigul 10c face. I generally use 8 of those 12 bolts.
My guess would be that the original ascent predates the rating of 5.10, predates sticky rubber, the use of gymnastic chalk, the use of belay devices...
Most of the bolts were replaced/upgraded within the past 20 years since I first started climbing there... originally the line was 1/4" bolts.
This area has a long climbing history, dating back to Royal Robbins and Allen Steck, and before...
Brutus
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slablizard
Jun 21, 2004, 6:42 PM
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Oh I see.
Still..I can understand aiding the first part, that without climbing shoes might have been "impossible" :lol: at 10c, but the main section of the route is not more than 10a apart another crux up high...Anyway, not to desrespect the history of climbing, but maybe it is the time to turn the page and start looking at the future instead of back at the past.
We do have now sticky rubber and safe bolts, let's use them ! :) It will impact a lot less than constant TRing over the edge.
In reply to: In reply to: :shock: I struggle to understand why one would aid climb a beautigul 10c face. I generally use 8 of those 12 bolts. My guess would be that the original ascent predates the rating of 5.10, predates sticky rubber, the use of gymnastic chalk, the use of belay devices... Most of the bolts were replaced/upgraded within the past 20 years since I first started climbing there... originally the line was 1/4" bolts. This area has a long climbing history, dating back to Royal Robbins and Allen Steck, and before... Brutus |
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roughster
Jun 21, 2004, 8:02 PM
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In reply to: Anyway, not to desrespect the history of climbing, but maybe it is the time to turn the page and start looking at the future instead of back at the past.
That is the problem with climbing. We (collectively as climbers) are so deep-rooted and clinging to the ideals of the past, that we are in essence neglecting the future, and trading one possible access concern for another. Only in climbing would an aid bolt-ladder be "justified" because it was done many years ago while responsibly bolted sport climbs, which would actually decrease impact of gang TR'ers, be discouraged.
I never bothered with Diablo because I heard the rock was piss poor quality and I already knew within a few weeks of moving here where there was several other undeveloped crags with piss poor rock quality. Why wrestle with choss that someone made "holy" 40 years ago by grid bolting a 1/4" bolt ladder into?
Anyways, sounds like you had a good time Paolo and thats really what it is about; getting out to the crags, any crag for that matter, and having fun. Like Dave said, it is too bad we couldn't talk you into DTSA on Sat. You would have had a blast! Oh well, next time out you'll have even more stuff to do!
One of these days I will go check out Diablo, its probably going to have to take DTSA and Auburn both crumbling to dust in order to do that, but you never know, it could happen :lol:
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slablizard
Jun 21, 2004, 8:53 PM
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Aron,
As you already know I totally agree. On one point you're wrong, the Lower Tier of Diablo is first quality sandstone, not chossy at all, and many of the climbs there are really fun and technically demanding ( no"no-feet-campusing-style" there :) )
IMH equipping the routes for lead insteat than TR would benefit the area.
It would promote better climbing (lead) versus forced T.Ring.
It would decrease the impact on the rock itself currently horribly carved by ropes.
It would spread the climbing over more climbs, while now I see everybody TRing the same routes over and over.
It would be more challenging.
It would reduce the "climbers on a TR for the whole day" policy, where a party after setting a TR feels the right to occupy the route for the whole day. And when you want to lead it they look at you like a show off. :shock:
Progress in climbing, and climbing equipment should only be welcomed, especially since we already have so many "sacred walls" here in NorCal where the use of bolts is seen as the inquisition saw witches. A mortal sin, whre dying (Xfactor) or getting hurt (R factor) is actually better than climbing safe.
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caughtinside
Jun 21, 2004, 8:58 PM
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In reply to: the climbs there are technically demanding ( no"no-feet-campusing-style" there :) )
Count me out! :lol:
Seriously though, I didn't think the area was that great. Yeah, maybe fun for a crag you're 30 minutes from, but that's about it.
I'm stoked you had a good day out there, but the idea of developing there when there's so much more rock with more promise just doesn't make any sense. There's still so many killer lines at auburn!
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maculated
Jun 21, 2004, 9:00 PM
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Okay, I am looking at Mt.Diablo as I type this and I'll say it again:
1. Amazing Face is SOOOO not a 10a. 5.9 or so. Maybe 5.9+
2. Mt. Diablo sucks. It IS a choss pile if you've ever climbed anywhere with quality sandstone. Yes, I know the Bay is devoid of good rock, but trust me, Aaron's projects are FAR more worthy than whatever you may find on Mt. Diablo. Use your bolt money to buy gas and drive to Castle Rocks, which is FAR more enjoyable climbing.
3. The best routes on Mt. Diablo are the cracks, and don't you dare bolt those.
/surly maculated
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slablizard
Jun 21, 2004, 9:17 PM
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LOL!
Ok Amazing face is 10 if you climb on the RIGHT of the bolts. Lower tier ( IMH) is not a choss pile, the rock is solid ant the routes offers nice technical climbing, Ozone and the diagonal are nice, but I definitely prefer slab/face climbing to cracks ( i believe you have more variety of movements, more research for finesse climbing, but that's just me).
Ever lead Bolt route or Dire Blow? They're great climbs!
Aaron's project...are AWESOME! But Diablo is 30 min away, + 5 min walk and to me it's a great plus being able to sneak there and climb from 2 to 7.
I'll never bolt cracks :-) don't worry, I know I'm in the US of A land of the trad home of the Aid ( no offense please, I'm looking forward to start tradding myself...one day)
I love Diablo because it's my little home crag...I know I'm not objective.
And I read the Castle is mostly bouldering and Tring...am I wrong?
TRuly yours
Slabbo-o-Lizard
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davidji
Jun 21, 2004, 9:19 PM
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In reply to: 2. Mt. Diablo sucks. It IS a choss pile if you've ever climbed anywhere with quality sandstone. Yes, I know the Bay is devoid of good rock, but trust me, Aaron's projects are FAR more worthy than whatever you may find on Mt. Diablo. Use your bolt money to buy gas and drive to Castle Rocks, which is FAR more enjoyable climbing. 3. The best routes on Mt. Diablo are the cracks, and don't you dare bolt those.
I remember you hated that place when you lived nearby (and I guess you must be home for the Summer). Without Ozone, I suppose I'd think the place was hardly worth a trip either, but between Ozone, Ozone Direct, and Butt Hole, I think Boy Scout Rocks is well worth a visit. If you don't live as far away as caughtinside anyway. Most people seem to prefer climbs like Amazing Face & Bolt Route though. To each his/her own...
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roughster
Jun 21, 2004, 9:33 PM
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In reply to: But Diablo is 30 min away, + 5 min walk and to me it's a great plus being able to sneak there and climb from 2 to 7. ... I love Diablo because it's my little home crag...I know I'm not objective. And I read the Castle is mostly bouldering and Tring...am I wrong? TRuly yours Slabbo-o-Lizard
Nothing wrong with that. Its sound like Diablo is your version of my Boxsprings in SoCal. When I went to school in SoCal I developed a crappy little crag that was 5 minutes from school so I could have a place to go with a few friends between classes. Chossy, short, slabby, the place doesn't have a lot going for it, but we turned into a crag where you could spend some quality time even if you only had a few hours to burn and still be home in time to catch dinner and study some more. Smaller local areas also do the climbing community a service by acting as diversions from the already more crowded and more popular venues.
So don't get me wrong, I am not knocking Diablo for what it "isn't", rather as Dave said, I just would be hard pressed to be tempted to go there when I can bolt more quality sport routes in one day at DTSA than the sum and total of all sport routes at Diablo.
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brutusofwyde
Jun 21, 2004, 9:49 PM
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In reply to: 1. Amazing Face is SOOOO not a 10a. 5.9 or so. Maybe 5.9+
lol
Before Amazing Face was bolted it was a top rope problem rated 5.8. The older I get, the harder I used to climb.
Aaron, I'd like to check out some of your projects sometime...
At least, If you have anything in the 5.6 range :D
Brutus
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slablizard
Jun 22, 2004, 8:13 PM
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In reply to: 3. The best routes on Mt. Diablo are the cracks, and don't you dare bolt those.
:lol: Hooold on a second climbsomething, you just said Diablo is a choss pile...so why do you care if do bolt a chossy crack in a chossy little crag?
And
Did you ever lead that crack on trad gear? 8^)
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caughtinside
Jun 22, 2004, 8:24 PM
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[quote="slablizard Hooold on a second climbsomething...snip...
And
Did you ever lead that crack on trad gear? 8^)
Uh oh! :shock:
:lol:
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maculated
Jun 22, 2004, 8:27 PM
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Actually, I'm home for a few days since my big summer plans exploded on me while I was in Yos Valley.
And I am NOT climbsomething. She's "not as evil as maculated" but she's not MACULATED. :P Plus, she's a sport pumpkin.
Brutus is right, that was 5.8 route in the guidebooks I've seen until recently, I suspect some bigger holds fell off? I dunno.
In reply to: In reply to: 3. The best routes on Mt. Diablo are the cracks, and don't you dare bolt those. :lol: Hooold on a second climbsomething, you just said Diablo is a choss pile...so why do you care if do bolt a chossy crack in a chossy little crag? And Did you ever lead that crack on trad gear? 8^)
Actually, I think I did after TRing it a couple of times. I can't remember the name and don;'t have the guidebook with me, but DavidJi recommended it. Might be Ozone. All the leading I've done with gear was uh . . . basically like ice climbing, I didn'twant to be falling.
Choss piles don't deserve bolted cracks either. It's not a choss pile, it's just CHOSSY.
Slab, seriously now, go climb at the Castle (which does have leadable routes and even the TRs are nice), Red Rocks, the Red, or anywhere that I don't claim is chossy and you'll see what I mean.
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slablizard
Jun 22, 2004, 8:44 PM
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In reply to: Actually, I think I did after TRing it a couple of times. I can't remember the name and don;'t have the guidebook with me, but DavidJi recommended it. Might be Ozone. All the leading I've done with gear was uh . . . basically like ice climbing, I didn'twant to be falling.
Tough girl! ( or woman if girl is offensive...) I was talking about the diagonal crack but Ozone is a nice one too.
As in my other post A.Face is .8 if you climb left of the line of bolts, .10 if you stay on the right of them. Lot more consistent climb too.
And I know, I moved here form Italy 5 years ago (TONS of 1st quality limestone at 1 hour drive) and apart Yosemite and Toulomne I had to change completely my definition of "chossy rock"
Believe me I swas shocked when I realized how poor anf few rock there is in the Bay Area. Now wiith Aaron's work I can say there'
s more rock, but the quality of it it's what it is..
But again, if you want to climb...that's what you have.
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