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reefer
Jul 8, 2004, 2:56 AM
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I dont know if Im looking hard enough, but all the pics I look at are of climbers lead climbing. Is top roping not as photogenic? Is it for us noobs? Should we start top roping before we try lead climbing?... I wasnt sure is this was a noob forum or gen. forum post, so i put it here...
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dirtineye
Jul 8, 2004, 3:03 AM
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Honestly, you don't have to top rope before you lead.
You should however second routes.
Instead of top roping, try bouldering as a beginning climber. You'll probably do much better on rope after a bouldering intro to climbing than you would after a top roping intro to climbing.
Top roping is for anyone who wants to do it, not just noobs.
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punkrawkclimber
Jul 8, 2004, 6:23 AM
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Not to sound like a huge sissy but top-rope is where its at man! But if your into leading exclusivly, just do it safe brother. Make sure you know what your doing. If your a noob dont try to throw yourself into climbing. Its not one of those things that you can act like you know what your talking about and try to sound cool. Not to be disrepectful but smart climbers dont die. Moral- be smart. Ask question, but more so at the crag and not so much on the net.
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slobmonster
Jul 8, 2004, 2:31 PM
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In reply to: Is top roping not as photogenic?
Short answer: no, it's not. There's no risk involved... the potential of falling a significant distance is the 'photogenic' quality absent in TR photos.
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wlderdude
Jul 8, 2004, 11:05 PM
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I have been climbing for a long time and have noticed this, too. All the good pictures of climbing are of people on lead. Ocassionally, a newspaper or other crummy publication will take a picture of top roper, but they never look good.
I think leading just looks more genuine. And it really is. Getting to the top of a cliff with your rope, rather than catching up to it, is a more pure form of climbing.
There is not doubt that leading is more difficult than top roping. The mental games that the extra risk provide make it quite different. The rope that will help you keep some balance on top rope becomes a hinderance and a real danger on lead as it tugs you around and pulls you off balance.
That said, I prefer top roping to leading. I still get on the "sharp end" of the rope ocassionaly. The experiences are different and I enjoy both.
You are more likely to enjoy leading after you are very comfortable on top rope. It is not much fun when you are not confident.
The whole idea of climbing is to have fun. Some people use it to prove things and boost their egos (they usually lead and look down on top ropers), but the sensible climber just does what they enjoy.
But remeber that "It doesn't have to be fun to be fun."
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lokionnitrox
Jul 8, 2004, 11:45 PM
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not photogenic, not to be mean about it. But I have to agree, the commitment just isn't there with TR, of course I don't take pictures of anyone attached to a rope.
which brings me to my next topic, bouldering is only a better way to learn if that's what you're into. The moves, though they may be the same, are used completely differently on boulders than on longer routes. You can get away with much poorer "technique" strictly speaking while bouldering. I wouldn't want to be 5-6 bolts up and try and lock off so that I could swing my heal over my head to make a throw/mantle that's a body length away from me, same as I wouldn't want to do a lot of the moves I try either sport or boulder when I'm a good distance over a piece of pro that I just placed.
Long and short, If you want to learn to climb lead, get with someone who leads and climb lead. If you want to boulder, boulder (and hit the weight room). and as for pics have some commitment, and "emotion" in the field of view, nobody likes a poser.
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climb_plastic
Jul 9, 2004, 12:10 AM
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In reply to: I wouldn't want to be 5-6 bolts up and try and lock off so that I could swing my heal over my head to make a throw/mantle that's a body length away from me, same as I wouldn't want to do a lot of the moves I try either sport or boulder when I'm a good distance over a piece of pro that I just placed.
It's not about the moves...it's about the risk. The moves are the same. If the problem can only be climbed by swinging your heal over your head to make a throw/mantle that's a body length away then that's what you'll have to do. It's just riskier doing it trad or 5-6 bolts up or even when bouldering than if you were top roped.
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kman
Jul 9, 2004, 12:19 AM
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In reply to: Not to be disrepectful but smart climbers dont die.
What a load of ignorant sh!t.
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climbsomething
Jul 9, 2004, 12:34 AM
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Toproping is for everybody, and be assured that lots of hardkore chest-pounders do it, even at the risk of their palms turning hairy :roll:
But visually, the appeal isn't the same. As people have said, the risk isn't there, and if I may expound upon this: viewers want to see risk so they can vicariously live through photos. So, if the subject isn't in some danger, the viewer feels cheated. He can't imagine risk and danger for himself either. Also, the rope zipping up and down in the frame just wrecks composition. The strong lines of a toprope set-up are distracting.
TR photos, TO ME but I am sure this isn't a universal sentiment, tend to be lame because of technical reasons, not egotistical ones. If a TR photo is well-composed, then it's a good pic, although those aren't common. People don't often put as much care into making a great TR shot. Why? Well, see above...
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jt512
Jul 9, 2004, 2:19 AM
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jt512 moved this thread from General to Beginners.
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jt512
Jul 9, 2004, 2:22 AM
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In reply to: The rope that will help you keep some balance on top rope becomes a hinderance and a real danger on lead as it tugs you around and pulls you off balance. I prefer top roping to leading.
I can certainly see why.
-Jay
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cantdog
Jul 9, 2004, 5:59 PM
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[quote="beesty511"]It's sort of like the difference between a picture of a skier snowplowing down a nearly flat, iced over cat track at Sugarbush, Vermont:
http://www.ifyouski.com/...ski/photos/pcice.jpg
thats definately not sugarbush and they dont have cat tracks...they call them "connecting trails"
And navigating rumble after 2 days of rain and a big freeze is a lot harder than skiing a 45 degree pow field :)
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lokionnitrox
Jul 9, 2004, 6:06 PM
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It's not about the moves...it's about the risk. The moves are the same.
never said it wasn't about the risk. But I haven't often seen the kind of risky commiting moves 5-6 bolts up that I find on boulders. But I've not widely traveled, and if you can find a section of a sport route where your feet spend as much time up by your head as your hands let me know and I'll be all over it.
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tedc
Jul 9, 2004, 10:35 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Not to be disrepectful but smart climbers dont die. What a load of ignorant sh!t.
That's right. Smart people don't even climb in the first place.
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kman
Jul 9, 2004, 11:58 PM
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^ :lol: :P
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coylec
Jul 10, 2004, 12:33 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Not to be disrepectful but smart climbers dont die. What a load of ignorant sh!t. That's right. Smart people don't even climb in the first place.
smart climber die. but at a much lower rate than stupid climbers. if you are a smart climber, you have decreased the number of mistakes you make ... mistake that will eventually catch up and kill you.
coylec
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ambler
Jul 10, 2004, 12:56 AM
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In reply to: But visually, the appeal isn't the same. As people have said, the risk isn't there, and if I may expound upon this: viewers want to see risk so they can vicariously live through photos. So, if the subject isn't in some danger, the viewer feels cheated. He can't imagine risk and danger for himself either. Also, the rope zipping up and down in the frame just wrecks composition. The strong lines of a toprope set-up are distracting.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...n=Show&PhotoID=34165
It got hammered down in the voting, though, so you must be right about how viewers react.
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lokionnitrox
Jul 10, 2004, 1:12 AM
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I liked both pics, and they were both composed very well. however, from a compositional style, leaving risk aside, having that line running up/ or across the picture respectively pulls the eye away from the subject. It's the same thing as taking a pic after someone has just clipped a bolt from below, even though the risk is there (the person is on lead) there's still that sharp angle in the middle of the image that really screws with things.
that and you often times get shots of the climber's ass. Y is that an interesting shot? even when she's an amazingly hot climber, I'd still prefer to see her face.
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rrrADAM
Jul 10, 2004, 2:14 AM
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TRing is fine... Slamming those who TR is for n00bs who think they are hard. :wink:
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iclimblilrocks
Jul 10, 2004, 3:40 AM
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Ok first off, if you need to ask this question you shouldnt be setting up any kind of anchor.
Any one can top rope(tr) it depends on the rock. top rope is generaly safer depending on how good the anchor is.. on tr you dont fall very far useually only a couple inches unless your belayer isnt paying attention and lets you fall a little farther then he would if he was paying attention.
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nthusiastj
Jul 10, 2004, 6:34 AM
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Yes it is.
But anyone who swings piches topropes. It is inevitable! When the Hubers free El Cap in under 2 hours, one of them is on toprope.
When Caldwell and Rodden climb one of them is on toprope.
Lead, follow, or just climb.
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climbsomething
Jul 10, 2004, 6:44 AM
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In reply to: Ok first off, if you need to ask this question you shouldnt be setting up any kind of anchor.
Who said anything about setting anchors?
This thread is mostly about the merits of TR photos.
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tech_dog
Jul 10, 2004, 7:12 AM
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Top roping can be a great way to get in a lot of problem practice. It can turn a 50 foot rock into a fun day of "bouldering".
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