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borogove
Aug 6, 2004, 10:06 PM
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I suppose a little history is in order.
My daughter is eight years old. She's never been particularly agile, or athletically inclined in general. Early this year, she showed some interest in rock climbing, so we got her into a class at the local Boys & Girls club, which she loved, and really seemed to have an aptitude for it. In June, we had her birthday party at a local climbing gym, which seemed to go well. The instructor was supportive of the girls, and seemed patient and knowledgeable.
Up to this point, everything's going well. My daughter's fairly introverted like her parents, so we liked the idea of something that's more focused on individual ability and achievement than hardcore competition or big teams. The same gym where we had her party offers "summer camps" for kids. We enrolled in a beginner camp, and figured this would really get her excited about the sport.
It all seems to have gone downhill from there.
We expected some basic drilling on good technique, caution, and improving individual ability. Instead, most of the time was spent with these beginners racing up walls, with the winners being allowed the chance to continue climbing. One day, my daughter came home completely dejected because she didn't get a chance to climb at all! When it wasn't competitions, the instructors catered to the kids making the most noise, and being the most aggressive, leaving the soft-spoken ones without opportunity to climb. My wife had to badger one of the instructors today (the last day) to let our daughter climb once.
So, I guess where I'm going with this is, am I getting my panties in a bunch over nothing? Is a "summer camp" like this the wrong place to expect teaching about proper technique and at least occasional individual attention? Am I going to have to look for more individualized (and expensive) instruction to help my daughter progress? I really would love to see her get involved in a sport she can really excel and feel good about herself in, but I'm worried about it consuming our life, too.
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wernets
Aug 6, 2004, 10:12 PM
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Registered: Jul 30, 2004
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I would talk to the manager of the gym. And if your daughter likes to climb I would enroll her in some classes rather than a camp. There they will focus on movment and technique rather than "fun".
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drector
Aug 6, 2004, 10:18 PM
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Like any activity that your kid will do, she will need you to help them get the most out of it. Dropping her off at the gym is just asking for the gym to be babysitters and they will eventually do a bad job of it.
Take your daughter to the gym yourself or at least stay during one or two of the "babysitting" sessions and point out strongly that you are paying for your kid to climb as much as any other kid. The idea that they get more climbing for winning sucks in a big way since the goal is to climb, not to win. I don't think you should expect technical training much but she should get to climb while there. What else is there to do?
I have an eight year old daughter and we sometimes get to the gym and sometimes to real rock. You are blessed if your kid likes climbing and should do it with her when possible.
It's always okay to look out for the best interest of your child.
Dave
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jiadar
Aug 6, 2004, 10:22 PM
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Sounds typical, I'm sure the people running the summer camp don't know what it takes to teach kids in groups. I know this is true at one particular gym, where my 15 year old brother runs the summer camp. The kids that are running the camp get no training as far as how to deal with kids in this type of situation. I've taught karate for 7 years and worked at a sports camp and it really takes a lot of skills to deal with these situations. But likley, for the fee you are paying, and for the fees that the gym I'm referring to charge... there is no way they could hire properly trained staff.
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dredsovrn
Aug 6, 2004, 10:24 PM
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Sounds like summer camp from hell for your daughter. My daughter is 7 and very carefully told me she wasn't really into climbing. What??? Just kidding. I knew that, but she thought it was real important to me that she was. It was a good opportunity to talk about that.
I guess my reason for relating that story is that I have found the most important thing is to let your child try a lot of different activities in good environments (sometimes that means creating those environments yourself). Learn together what they are passionate about (that will likely change every few minutes) and help them find more of it.
Turns out my daughter really loves acting. We found that out by getting her involved with a local community theatre just so she could see what it was like. A week ago she just finished her first tour with the theater's Shakespeare in the park program. She did it all herself though. We just facilitated.
After the first performance I asked her if getting on stage in front of all those people was scary (seemed like it would be to me). She said yes. Then I asked if she liked it. She said yes. Sounds like climbing to me.
Good luck, and keep her away from the morons at that gym.
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madriver
Aug 6, 2004, 10:29 PM
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....look for a tamer activity like band camp....seriously...did you check out the camp before you sent her? Some camps are for beginer instruction, others for fun (like you describe), others for serious climbing. If the camp was for beginer instruction, then the kids running it are lame, the racing is a typical birthday party game for many gyms, so this is what they are used to. Try finding a willing and sympathetic instuctor at your gym. Get them to do a one a one with your daughter until she is comfortable and confident in her skills. I have daughter similar to what you describe, so I found a fantastic kid (instructor/ Coach) at our gym to work with Vicky individually to try and get her to"come out of her shell". She was painfully shy and cried at her first Jr. Team tryout. Well I gotta tell ya, Chris (the Jr. Team Coach) took her under his wing, carefully guided her into climbing with the team and POW!!! She is doing quite well now (thank you very much says Vicky-my daughter)...so take it slow, find the right people, and good luck, who knows. A side note, climbing has given my daughter the confidence to excell, where before she shied away from achiveing.
Bob
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kman
Aug 6, 2004, 11:35 PM
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Registered: Oct 16, 2001
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Great...teaching them that climbing is all about competition and who gets to the top first wins :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: ROLLLLLLL!!!!!
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sespegorilla
Aug 7, 2004, 12:25 AM
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In my experience with youth sports (wrestling, basketball, soccer) it seems that it's the shy and timid who inevetably get passed over and left behind. It takes a special type of person to coach or teach kids and I think that more often than not, that person is you. In most youth sports the emphasis is on winning, but in rock climbing the winner is the one who has the most fun, not the one who gets to the top first.
sesgo
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therave
Aug 7, 2004, 4:08 PM
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Dude, take a stand! You paid for a climbing camp. Your expectations may have been unrealistically high, but it sounds like your daughter was lucky to do any climbing at all. And to have to debate an instructor to allow her to climb is outrageous. It's a sad fact of life that the noisy, aggressive kids tend to sideline the quiet ones. But it doesn't take a PhD in behavioral psychology for the instructor to see that some kids aren't getting to climb and hence aren't getting what they paid for.
I'd take it to the camp director or gym owner or whoever took your money. And then I'd demand an explanation of how they can rationalize the fact that they took money from your for a climbing camp in which THEIR staff didn't allow your daughter to fairly participate. If they don't offer you a refund I'd demand one. There's too much tolerance of this kind of crap and it only breeds more of the same. Good luck,
-Dave
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a3webhog
Aug 7, 2004, 5:24 PM
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Registered: Dec 15, 2002
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Imho, the gym program is awful. Some people like climbing competitively, I'm just not one of them.
Have you thought about getting more involved in your daughter's climbing? You should take a basic techniques class and climb with your daughter. At her age, and being so new to climbing, the best thing she can do is to just keep climbing. I think her parent can be the best person to help her with that.
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nirvana
Aug 7, 2004, 6:07 PM
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Registered: Jun 3, 2004
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In reply to: At her age, and being so new to climbing, the best thing she can do is to just keep climbing
I'd speak to the gym manager and at least voice my displeasure with the fact that I paid for climbing camp and my kid didn't actually get to climb.
As far as an ongoing program, though--all she needs is the opportunity to climb. She doesn't need technique classes at this point--or maybe even ever. Just set things up so she can climb. Ideally, you can get into it yourself and share the experience with her--but if not, you can at least learn how to belay her & give her the opportunity to climb often. And if she has a buddy who wants to get into it, that might be fun for her.
Beyond that, just let her climb however she wants. Forget about technique--she'll figure a lot out on her own. Further down the road, if she feels there are things she can't do that she wants to do, you can be helpful by encouraging her to be observant and watch what other, more experienced climbers do. That's a great way to learn. It's not rocket science, after all. Any kid can do it :lol:
Just let it be fun. That's really what it's all about. You were sensitive to the tyranny of competition in her summer camp--be equally sensitive to the tyranny of "being good" at stuff. She'll be as good as she ends up being. Who cares? Better she finds something she loves than something she's particularly "good at." Especially at her age.
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treesail
Aug 7, 2004, 8:18 PM
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Registered: Jul 16, 2004
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That camp sucked, period. To expect a little attention, and that your daughter would have at least been able to actually climb, ain't asking a whole lot. And the whole business about racing is worse than no camp at all ("Hmmm, let's see how we can completely ruin a kid's interest in climbing for the love of it"). Some of the other posts pointed out that the staff maybe wasn't all that qualified, & if that's true, they shouldn't have a camp in the first place. I've taught in similar situations (not climbing, but outdoor camps) & I know it's very difficult to keep a lot of kids occupied, but I also know that only the most self-centered bonehead wouldn't notice that your daughter was excluded -- and only the tiniest effort would've included her.
What's the name of this camp, & where's it at, by the way?
If you're at all interested in climbing yourself, you might try it with her. Or if not, many gyms will let you belay, & then you could hang out with and encourage her. At eight, she doesn't really need professional instruction, only that idiots at camps don't ruin the desire she has to climb. She wants to climb, & that's enough. Skill will come if she's allowed to just do it because she loves it.
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