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aimeerose
Aug 10, 2004, 10:52 PM
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Just a warning to all-
This week we left the draws on Predator and came back the next day only to find two guys from Provo attempting to get the first draw off the bottom. We walked up to the route to offer assistance with our stick clip to get it off (not realizing what route it was). When I did realize it was Predator I looked up to find all of our draws removed. When I said "Hey, what happened to our draws?" these guys said "Oh, uh, we thought someome abandoned them." They had cleaned every single draw off the climb (except the ones we left at the anchors cause they couldn't climb hard enough to get them and couldn't pull on nylon like they did on the rest of the route.) When we confronted them about it, they admitted they were going to take them and that it was wrong of them. They felt bad about it (so it seemed) and hopefully won't do it again, but just a word to those climbing in the area to consider cleaning the first couple draws, since these guys are from the area.
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112
Aug 10, 2004, 11:33 PM
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That's weak. Who abandons a whole route worth of draws? :evil:
One question though. How did they get all the other draws off but not the last one? Did they down fall? Are they too cheap to leave a bail biner so that they can steal a set of draws? Just curious.
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wedgy
Aug 10, 2004, 11:48 PM
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Would you leave your rope there? Would you leave a trad rack at the base. Why not? Then don't leave ANY of your other gear. If someone wanted to climb the route were they not supposed to use your draws or were they not supposed to climb there because you own it? Did you lock up your bicycle as a kid? Probably not. Sorry to flame but abandoned gear is just that...booty. Gear that is left behind will never have a problem finding an new owner who will care for it properly.
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mbg
Aug 10, 2004, 11:56 PM
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In reply to: Would you leave your rope there? Would you leave a trad rack at the base. Why not? Then don't leave ANY of your other gear. If someone wanted to climb the route were they not supposed to use your draws or were they not supposed to climb there because you own it? Did you lock up your bicycle as a kid? Probably not. Sorry to flame but abandoned gear is just that...booty. Gear that is left behind will never have a problem finding an new owner who will care for it properly.
BS!
Leaving draws in situ is somewhat of a gamble because there are tossers out there who might steal them, but it's a pretty common practice on hard routes. If you leave draws the route is not yours until you clean them and they could be legitimately used by others while you're gone, that's part of the deal. Nonetheless, they are not "abandoned gear". You won't find much sympathy when you come back crying because you've been thuroughly beaten after someone catches you stealing their sh!t.
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gullwing19
Aug 11, 2004, 12:00 AM
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Common knowledge says that a route is being "worked on" if the draws are pre-placed and left there. Common SENSE says not to leave your draws in a high-traffic area. I personally wouldn't leave draws on a work in progress without assuming there was a small chance that they would get bootied. But what do I know...I'm just a trad climber.
climb safe
S
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aimeerose
Aug 11, 2004, 12:31 AM
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They left a piece of webbing through the last bolt they could get to (and lowered off of that- how stupid! It was melted almost through!). They were trying to get the draw of the bottom bolt by jumping up to try to grab it. Hence, they weren't even strong enough to boulder up to the first draw, let alone do the whole route!
Anyways, I'm just glad we showed up when we did. If we had been a few minutes later, our new draws would have been laters.
And, no one, I mean no one abandons a route with all the quickdraws in situ! If someone bails of a route they leave a one biner at most. These guys knew they were busted and totally in the wrong. If they hadn't have been so apologetic, we would have had to bust some heads :wink:
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aimeerose
Aug 11, 2004, 12:34 AM
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(BTW, had they been just trying the route that would have been a whole different story. If draws are left in place, you have to be cool with other people taking a run on them and we are).
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therealdeal
Aug 11, 2004, 1:52 AM
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In reply to: Would you leave your rope there? Would you leave a trad rack at the base. Why not? Then don't leave ANY of your other gear. If someone wanted to climb the route were they not supposed to use your draws or were they not supposed to climb there because you own it? Did you lock up your bicycle as a kid? Probably not. Sorry to flame but abandoned gear is just that...booty. Gear that is left behind will never have a problem finding an new owner who will care for it properly.
oh no...not again! This discussion always brings out the newest of the new...
If you take fixed gear, you are a thief. it is wrong. simple as that, no room for discussion.
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darth_gaydar
Aug 11, 2004, 2:38 AM
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It is true that it is wrong, but it is also true that in today's murky times, if one does not want their gear "borrowed", one should keep it safe at all times. It is apparently no longer safe to keep draws on so many routes these days. For shame to the loser thieves and kudos for not giving them a beat down like one wouold give a flea ridden pound puppy.
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dreadlock
Aug 11, 2004, 3:09 AM
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I'm just seconding this but when you see draws left on a route, leave them there, whether it's a 5.7 or a 5.14 it's not booty. I don't understand how anyone can think it's ok to take someones draws of a route. That's called STEALING!! Karma has a way of coming around and finding you folks who think it's ok to do so.
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wedgy
Aug 11, 2004, 3:09 AM
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"therealdeal" wrote 'newest of new' & 'if you take fixed gear you're a thief'. I stated I was not intending to flame. The facts are that if you leave gear someone may take it. You would be simple not to have it cross your mind. As for a draw being "fixed" we now know who the newest is, or at least the narrow mindedest. Just because you are a sport climber only(as we now know) don't assume that others know what proper ettiquete is. People steal ENTIRE haul bags from the base of el cap. They know it's not 'proper'. They are there to steal. I'm just saying don't act surprised. As for the rules of fixed gear you will learn when you start climbing for real. I mean when you become a well rounded climber. Please think before you post.
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trialschump
Aug 11, 2004, 4:45 AM
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delete
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alpnclmbr1
Aug 11, 2004, 4:53 AM
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The lowest of the low is that when chris hill was projecting the FA of that route, someone poached all his draws.
Doesn't happen so much at the pipedream and even the minimum, but in the lower canyon, beware.
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wedgy
Aug 11, 2004, 5:31 AM
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"trylchump" please try to understand. Read the title of the post. "Theives". I'm saying don't leave it there for them to take. Not everybody is as honest as people on this tr. I have never stolen gear(bad kharma) nor have I had it stolen....because I would never leave it there to risk it being swiped by those that don't believe. The author issued a warning & I am advocating removal because not everyone agrees with its hanging there as sacred as most do. For some it is a fruit waiting to be plucked. Don't give them the chance. Simple!
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aimeerose
Aug 11, 2004, 5:37 AM
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Wow- that's crazy about Chris Hill and the same route! That makes me glad that I wrote this post. People should be warned. It makes more sense now that I think about it because Maple is becoming such a multi-user area. It's just sad when other climbers do it. I like to think there is a sense of community among us and with that respect. I guess I'm kind of idealistic.
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asandh
Aug 11, 2004, 5:44 AM
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:)
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wedgy
Aug 11, 2004, 5:54 AM
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Amen brother. Amen.
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pushsendnorcal
Aug 11, 2004, 6:17 AM
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[quote="asandh"]therealldeal wrote:
In reply to: oh no...not again! This discussion always brings out the newest of the new... if you guys had some balls and bigger muscles you wouldn't be calling pre placed draws red pointing. putting them back each time is good exercise and MUCH more manly oooh .... left gear is abandoned gear ....
Please show us your great skills by doing The Great Feast 13.D, while placing all 24 DRAWS, or T-Rex 14.B with its small amount of 31 Draws. Fixed draws do serve a purpose.
On shorter climbs, it can become a hassel to place your draws on a climb every day. Leaving your gear usually means that person is projecting the climb. Left gear is not abandoned gear
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pbjosh
Aug 11, 2004, 6:24 AM
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In reply to: oh no ... not again ! ???? Those are my exact words. Seems like every week some some guy in pink tights is whining about someone stealing his draws. if you guys had some balls and bigger muscles you wouldn't be calling pre placed draws red pointing. putting them back each time is good exercise and MUCH more manly oooh .... left gear is abandoned gear ....
Art I hadn't realized you could be such a weenie? There's a difference between carrying draws for an off vertical 6 bolt 5.11 at Mission Gorge and cleaning and rehanging draws on some super-steep 20 bolt 5.13. Have you ever cleaned a 40' roof or a route that overhangs 45 degrees for 100 feet? It's a real pain in the ass.
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kalcario
Aug 11, 2004, 6:52 AM
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*if you guys had some balls and bigger muscles you wouldn't be calling pre placed draws red pointing. putting them back each time is good exercise and MUCH more manly oooh ....
left gear is abandoned gear ....*
ignoramus americanus - the only endangered species the Repubs want to save
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overlord
Aug 11, 2004, 7:19 AM
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the lesson learned???
if youre leaving draws, remove the first and maybe even the second draw. that way ppl cant just pull on them to get them down.
and draws left are not booty. here we have some routes that have draws almost all of the time. and its actually really nice because one like me can try something WAY above hes level without worrying about leaving gear.
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asandh
Aug 11, 2004, 3:42 PM
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:)
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rocdaug
Aug 11, 2004, 4:05 PM
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I've come to understand that in some places, this is a common practice. this idea of "project draws". It's my opinion however, that this is simply garbage left on the wall to be cleaned up. It amazes me how some get so worked up about chaulk on the wall in popular climbing areas but don't think twice about leaving hardware littering the place. ...at least the chaulk will be gone with the next rain.
Now that I understand the local custom, thanks to jay for his rather rude and acid comments in a previous thread, I would not "steal" or clean up after these climbers. However it's not a practice that I'd encourage either.
Now, I have not been climbing for decades like some, so perhaps my opinion will change with time... I doubt it though. I would not steal the draws, I'd clean them and leave them at the base of the climb... someone else can steal them. :shock:
rd
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fracture
Aug 11, 2004, 4:13 PM
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In reply to: Now, I have not been climbing for decades like some, so perhaps my opinion will change with time... I doubt it though. I would not steal the draws, I'd clean them and leave them at the base of the climb... someone else can steal them. :shock:
If you ever start climbing hard, I guarantee your opinion will change.
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aimeerose
Aug 11, 2004, 4:18 PM
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In reply to: simply garbage left on the wall to be cleaned up
And yes, next time I will clean the first 2 draws so ninnies like those guys can't just pull nylon to get my gear. Guess it was naive and idealistic of me to trust in humanity and especially the climbing community.
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