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punk_rocker333
Aug 30, 2004, 12:25 AM
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Could anyone give me a gear list for a beggining caver? Pretty much the same gear as climbing without a dynamic rope right? Thankyou for any information.
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drbeagle
Aug 30, 2004, 1:14 AM
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What gear you need depends alot on the cave. (kinda like trad climbing; you don't need all of your rack for every climb).
Here's some stuff:
An experienced leader for your first trip
Static Rope
Webbing and locking 'biners for anchors
Harness
Rappel Device:
an ATC will work for shorter distances if you rappel slowly. Its far too easy to melt a rope on overhanging rappels. for longer rappels consider a roller device designed for caving. I believe petzl's is called the petzl STOP.
Ascenders:
using a mechanical system with a couple of basics or crolls for your feet and an ancension for your harness work well.
Prusiks for backup ascending
Helmet
Headlamp
At least two more sources of light
Permit for the cave if required
This list isn't all inclusive but gives you an idea of the gear needed.
You need to be able to anchor a rope at the top, rappel down it, see in the cave without hitting your head, ascend back up the rope, and exit the cave.
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godskid5
Aug 30, 2004, 4:12 AM
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a caving rack works great for long free rappells. simple to use, roll bars, no rope meltage!
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onacliff
Aug 30, 2004, 5:48 AM
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In reply to: An experienced leader for your first trip
This is extremely important. You might even want to go with an experienced caver a number of times before you start out on your own. When you introduce darkness, muck and cold, you open a whole new can of worms. Experienced climbers get themselves into a ton of trouble when they start caving and don't have the proper caving experience thinking its the same thing just underground. I've been caving for 5 years now, about as long as I've been climbing and I still feel a lot safer above ground than underground. Please, find any experienced caver to talk to before you do any caving, they will tell you exactly what gear you will need before they take you on a trip underground. Caving is a ton of fun, but it depends more heavily on experience than climbing to stay safe.
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drbeagle
Aug 30, 2004, 6:07 AM
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Onacliffs comment made me realize that you might be new to all of caving, and not just vertical caving.
Vertical caving is tons of fun, but you'll probably want to visit one or two horizontal 'wild' caves first. Getting used to the temperature (bring warm clothes, some caves are mighty chilly) and the dark, sometimes damp, conditions will be good.
Then, when you have some experience with that you could hit up a vertical cave or two with an experienced leader.
Although caving uses the safety equipment from climbing, it is used for everything. You don't climb anything accept the rope and that makes it very different.
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kachoong
Aug 30, 2004, 6:09 AM
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....yer a brave fella!.... personally I'd prefer a little bit of rock to hang on to with air all around me..... as opposed to having a little bit of air to hang on to with rock all around me!
....don't forget your lunchbox!.... preferably NOT a can of worms....
....good idea to have 3 sources of light.... make sure one of them is a chemical stick.... no electrical problems then....
Good luck!
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jumar
Aug 30, 2004, 2:37 PM
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It depends on the cave, but one thing we like to bring in caves with a lot of caverns and passages (in addition to what's been said already), is tongue depressors with reflective tape. We leave them behind like bread crumbs, so we don't get lost. It's easy to get lost underground, it becomes very useful when there's a lot of different passages to choose from.
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timstich
Aug 30, 2004, 3:07 PM
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There's a new little caving forum in Austin, TX you might drop by if you like to talk about caving.
http://www.texascaving.com/forums/index.php
It's brand new and hardly has any forum members, but I have seen some pretty experienced people posting and lurking, like Bill Steele. Ask him to tell you about Yochib. Heh.
Anyway, look for a local caving club first. They are called grottos in cavespeak. The NSS website can help you with that.
http://www.caves.org
If that fails, then you may have to resort to being a do-it-yourselfer. If you choose this route, and many who do that never come take a peep at forums like this, realize that you are in a lot more danger. Whatever you choose to do, always tell a responsible person where you went off to and when you'll be back. And give detailed directions to where you are. Draw maps if you have to. If you get stuck in some cave and can't get out on your own, you'll want someone to be able to find you.
A friend of mine got some large rocks pinning his leg just like old Floyd Collins. Lucky for him, his caving buddy was creative and got a car jack to relieve the weight of the rock. The fire rescue squad just sat outside until they both crawled out. That cave was really tight.
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climb513a
Aug 30, 2004, 3:26 PM
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hi
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dxmetal
Aug 30, 2004, 3:30 PM
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Caving's fun and required seperate skills (ascending a rope) which also pertains to Aid climbing :)
an established rock climber will ease quickly into the sport. There are other system besides the frog. Where are you located ??
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timstich
Aug 30, 2004, 3:50 PM
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In reply to: im interested in starting caving aswell but have been having trouble finding a caving group in my group... im in central scotland if anyone knows any sites... i checked out caving.org but thats usa only :? so if any1 knows a site for scotland it would be much apriciated :)
You Brits and Scots are in for some serious caving. Lots of potholers over there and quite a few caves. I found this site in about half a minute. It talks about clubs and has other links.
http://www.derbyscc.org.uk/...ving_intro.htm#clubs
Good luck finding some mates. It should be pretty easy.
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sarcat
Aug 30, 2004, 4:15 PM
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There is this cave that all the kids like to visit on the west side of Provo, UT. I went into it for the first time last week end to help free a 16 year old kid. He was stuck for 12 hours, no light loss of feeling in his left leg.
I've been lucky to avoid this cave for years. It smells like urine and is nothing but mud and rock. It's called Nutty Putty. Go knock yourself out. Just leave all the nice caves alone if you don't know how to treat them right. I'm not saying you don't just that you should learn how to before you go.
This pic is of 2 members of our SAR team manning the enterance. Even there it stinks and is messy.
http://img50.exs.cx/...5982/nutputsmall.jpg
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timstich
Aug 30, 2004, 4:22 PM
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Mmmm. Urine smells.
The nastiest cave I went in had thick, gooey bat guano in all of the entrance crawls. Gnats were swarming around our lights back in a minor squeeze into the stream passage. Then the bats roosting there freaked out and tried to exit the squeeze. Must have inhaled a few grams of bugs. Coff!
Dead carcasses in cave entrances are not nice. Nor are used hypodermic needles (one cave in Mexico).
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jakemojo13
Aug 30, 2004, 5:14 PM
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Have caved in TAG (TN, AL, GA) and VA a fair bit over the last 15 years.
For vertical caving definitly get a rappel rack. For short ascents, prusiks are fine, but for longer pits, you need to rig up more complex rigs. Popular rigs usually use a croll and hand ascender. Check out this link:
http://www.cavepage.magna.com.au/cave/vert.html
There are also bungee assisted ascension rigs but these are for really long pits (Ellisons etc)
Of course redundant light sources are a must.
Be sure to have a map of the cave and a compass and navigation skills. A cave can look VERY different on the way out than it did on the way in because of limited light and because of the varied terrain you will be covering. Many times you will climb up in to a chamber from a large "hole" which you think will be no problem locating on the way back, but when you come back , it is hard to distinguish the hole from the rest of the breakdown and rubble in the area. Most recreational caves get enough traffic that you don't have to be too paranoid, but getting lost for 20 hours ain't no fun......(trust me)
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jumar
Aug 30, 2004, 11:45 PM
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Has anyone here done Neff's Cave, in UT?
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timstich
Aug 31, 2004, 12:54 AM
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In reply to: Has anyone here done Neff's Cave, in UT?
Nope. Wasn't Neff's once one of the deepest in the US? Long ago, of course. Ha! My memory is not as poor as I had feared.
http://www.caves.org/...impgrotto/Neffs.html
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jumar
Sep 1, 2004, 1:36 PM
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Now I'm going to be thinking about this story next time I'm in a cave. :shock:
I've been meaning to go do Neff's Cave sometime soon. It has something like 8 or 9 rappels (lots of jumaring back up).
Most of the caves I've done are in WY. We go down Bighorn Cavern once a year. It has a 90 foot free rap into the cave, then there's about 8 miles of caverns to explore.
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godskid5
Sep 2, 2004, 5:29 AM
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Most definately a true story eh? not!
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climbinginchico
Sep 2, 2004, 7:08 AM
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OK, dammit I just gotta know... what happens???? ahhhhh I hate it when people dont finish stories. Even if they are most likely false. :evil: :x
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