|
gfw123
Oct 11, 2004, 8:09 PM
Post #1 of 9
(2193 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 7, 2004
Posts: 19
|
I am fairly new sport climber (6 months or so). I have noticed that most of my gear I use for leading sport outside is rated at around 20-22kn. My slings, biners, quick draws, etc.
I recently bought a few John Long books and a set of nuts to play with and practice setting over the winter. I notice that all the nuts have a strength rating of ~6kn to ~10kn (size #1-#10, Metolius Curve Nuts).
Why the big difference in strength from sport equipment to trad? Is sport equipment just over built? I can't see any way that sport climbing would generate more force on the pro then trad, they seem equal to me.
Is it just that the stuff I use to sport climb is also used to create anchors and so its built extra tough?
Thanks for any insight,
--greg.
|
|
|
|
|
petsfed
Oct 11, 2004, 8:16 PM
Post #2 of 9
(2193 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 25, 2002
Posts: 8599
|
Simple, bolts are designed in such a way that the rock around them won't fail when a force in excess of 14 kn is applied to it. Technically, a nut itself will not fail under regular climbing usage. Its too strong. The rated strength refers to the the strength of the cable.
For a while, Wild Country slung all of their rocks (their brand of nuts) with 22kn cable. After some time, they found that looking at all of the times the rocks failed, the cable had never failed once. A failed cable on a nut is still exceedingly rare. The manufacturers realized that the gigantic safety margin in all of their equipment was not being used. More importantly, it made the gear heavier without offering any appreciable increase in safety.
|
|
|
|
|
slobmonster
Oct 11, 2004, 8:20 PM
Post #3 of 9
(2193 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 28, 2003
Posts: 1586
|
Where the rubber meets the road with trad gear is, basically, the diameter cable the manufacturers can use to put together their gear.
Also, you would be hard-pressed to generate more than 10 kn in a climbing fall, unless you have been quite remiss in your studies. Perhaps a web search for CEN/UIAA data, and use of the Petzl fall-force calculator could answer some of your questions.
|
|
|
|
|
climbtothebeet
Oct 11, 2004, 9:07 PM
Post #4 of 9
(2193 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 31, 2004
Posts: 232
|
i heard once that it only takes 8-10 pounds of presure ot rip them off, proly jsut a rumer
|
|
|
|
|
forkliftdaddy
Oct 15, 2004, 8:15 PM
Post #5 of 9
(2193 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 3, 2003
Posts: 408
|
just my opinion...
4 kn = good gear, especially with some rope out and/or a screamer.
2 kn = place it early (over your head), use a screamer, and don't fall on it.
|
|
|
|
|
vegastradguy
Oct 17, 2004, 4:27 PM
Post #6 of 9
(2193 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 28, 2002
Posts: 5919
|
good lord, ignore the last two posts. :roll:
read petsfed's and slobmonster's posts again.
|
|
|
|
|
adnix
Oct 17, 2004, 9:09 PM
Post #7 of 9
(2193 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 20, 2003
Posts: 584
|
Yes, sport gear is over built. Read the "truth" form the last post of the linked thread (the one with UIAA study):
http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=69012&p=861994#861994
In reply to: "3. The force in the top runner is surprisingly small (even if there is only one runner, i.e. very little system friction). It appears that the force in the top runner will rarely reach 10 kN (it did not even come close in the tests). The values fall mostly between 3 and 6 kN. This is independent of fall height (theoretical fall factor). Note again that operator behaviour has a major influence. " |
|
|
|
|
traddad
Oct 20, 2004, 2:38 PM
Post #8 of 9
(2193 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 14, 2001
Posts: 7129
|
Confused About Nut Strength
It's what you need to run it out.
|
|
|
|
|
chriss
Oct 20, 2004, 6:14 PM
Post #9 of 9
(2193 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 13, 2004
Posts: 92
|
Notice that the minimum strengths on those "sport" biners are around 9KN (gate open and minor axis). Bolt strength is all about the placement, hanger strength is also about the bolt. These are only strong if placed well and loaded correctly. Their maximum strengths are high, but still can be broken. Webbing strength is at the joint; knotted or sewn.
Wired chocks are built to the maximum load as determined by the UIAA (mentioned before). Smaller wired chocks are made for special purposes. All can be good protection if used correctly.
And lets talk about "sport" gear and "trad" gear. What gear do you use "sport" climbing that you don't (or couldn't) use "trad" climbing? Don't think that "sport" climbing is somehow inheritly safer than "trad" climbing because the bolts and gear are so strong. Gravity is same for both. (Sorry for the rant)
chris
(edited for typos)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
