|
jebel_andi
Oct 26, 2004, 6:48 PM
Post #1 of 48
(6943 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 20, 2003
Posts: 122
|
I am new to trad climbing and therefore have a starters rack It has been fine for craging but I want to do some more mutli pitch and the only person I climb with doesn't lead and has no gear of their own. So with what I have would you say my rack is big enough for multipitch climbs that the guide book says requires a "standard rack" the area I am thinking about is new hampshire: white horse, cathedral and cannon. If you think my rack is too small them please suggest pieces that are lacking.
I have:
BD stopper : 4-13
BD hexes : 7-10
BD cams : .75,1,2,3
Aliens: green,yellow,red
Tricams: pink and red
Trad draws: 8
Sport draws: 10
P.S. Please don't post just to say you started climbing in the seventies with a handfull of stoppers, three hexes, a hemp rope and 60 foot run outs. We all know you're tough.
|
|
|
|
|
username
Oct 26, 2004, 6:55 PM
Post #2 of 48
(6943 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 25, 2004
Posts: 4
|
I'm not familiar with New Hampshire, but for many places that is enough gear for a"standard rack." Some will insist that you need 3 times thatmuch gear, complete with a full set of hybrid/offset cams, but you don't. If you want to expand I would start with a couple of micro-cams smaller than you green Alien.
|
|
|
|
|
j_ung
Oct 26, 2004, 6:57 PM
Post #3 of 48
(6943 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690
|
You might want a few extra biners and a cordalette or two, maybe a couple smaller cams, but other than that, yes, it's enough. Climb on.
You have no really big gear, but as my dawg O-Dub says, "All big gear does is feed big egos." :D
|
|
|
|
|
slavetogravity
Oct 26, 2004, 6:58 PM
Post #4 of 48
(6943 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 9, 2003
Posts: 1114
|
Holly-Fn’-Molly. Is your rack too small?? Your rack is fricken huge!!! When I started doing my first multi pitch (Way back in 1997) I had one set of nuts and two cams. You’ve got to learn to make do with what you’ve got and don’t get hung up on the illusion that the gear makes the climber. If anything I’d encourage you to adopt a more minimalist style when climbing and bring only what you need.
|
|
|
|
|
asandh
Oct 26, 2004, 7:00 PM
Post #5 of 48
(6943 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 13, 2002
Posts: 788
|
:)
|
|
|
|
|
angelaa
Oct 26, 2004, 7:00 PM
Post #6 of 48
(6943 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 21, 2003
Posts: 598
|
I haven't climbed in NH, but sounds like the perfect rack to me!
I didnt start climbing in the 70's, I was just poor - - I only had set of nuts, hexes and tricams when I started leading . . .
If you're going to lead multi-pitch just make sure you have some high angle rescue course (or at least read a book) under your belt, carry some extra gear for anchors (biners and slings etc) and you should be good to go!
Good Luck and have a BLAST!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
asandh
Oct 26, 2004, 7:12 PM
Post #7 of 48
(6943 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 13, 2002
Posts: 788
|
:)
|
|
|
|
|
ben87
Oct 26, 2004, 7:19 PM
Post #8 of 48
(6943 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 26, 2004
Posts: 229
|
very solid rack.
extra biners and a cordellete or two for anchors.
If you want to double up, add
* a few more stoppers in the mid-range (6,7,8, maybe)
* and a few more small and midrange cams (yellow alien, .75 camalot)
just remember that after the first pitch, you'll need enough gear for two bomber anchors as well as the route. Check the guidebook. If you're going to climb from one hanging belay to another, I wouldn't want to have to skimp on gear.
When doubling up, you could also consider getting a similar cam instead of the exact same one -- maybe a TCU instead of an alien... to increase the versatility a bit. there are probably a lot of opinions on this.
also -- they have their downsides, but forged friends are a cheap way to pick up a few extra cams.
that's my two cents.
|
|
|
|
|
euroford
Oct 26, 2004, 7:21 PM
Post #9 of 48
(6943 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 2913
|
that looks like a pretty solid rack, but i personally carry more gear.
my rack
|
|
|
|
|
shakylegs
Oct 26, 2004, 7:25 PM
Post #10 of 48
(6943 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 20, 2001
Posts: 4774
|
You’re fine for NH, but I would suggest you buy yourself some slings to replace those sport draws with trad. You might want to double up in the 10-13 range for the stoppers as well, since some of NH cracks sure love them sizes. Also, being BD, you might find that the stoppers will bite into the rock like Dracula on a virgin. Try stoppers of the same size, but made by another company, such as Wild Country (try La Cordée on Ste-Catherine E: they’ll let you compare). Get a webolette or cordelette, as j_ung suggested. But, there’s no need to spend the coin on a #4 Camelot. That’s nearly an extra kilo on your back, and I’ve never found myself on NH rock thinking, “gosh, a #4 would be great right about now.”
You could go for the blue & brown tri-cams, but you can do without for a while, until you get more comfy with gear.
If you’re going to do Cannon, you should know that any climb there is way more involved than at Cathedral.
And, finally, if you're still not sure of your stuff, drop the coin and spend a day with Marc Chauvin (www.chauvinguides.com). You'll walk away much more edumacated.
|
|
|
|
|
davidji
Oct 26, 2004, 7:28 PM
Post #11 of 48
(6943 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 30, 2003
Posts: 1776
|
The rack looks good for lots of things.
It's good to keep in mind pitch length, and whether a climb has bolted or gear belays. If gear belays, that's typically an extra 6 pieces per pitch (3 per belay at both ends). And they have to fit.
It may be enough for all the climbs you want to do, gear belays or no, but it's something to keep in mind. While it may be OK to runout a pitch a little when you're climbing on a light rack, it sux to not have enough gear for the belays.
|
|
|
|
|
cracklover
Oct 26, 2004, 7:44 PM
Post #12 of 48
(6943 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10162
|
In reply to: Those in this thread who are saying your rack is plenty big for multi pitch are encouraging you to run in to trouble. Sure your rack is big enough for most single pitch routes.
Nonsense. Your rack is a perfectly good starter rack for multi-pitch routes in New Hampshire. I'd also suggest a cordelette, especially if you'll be doing most of the leading. Also, learn how to build your anchor with the rope, so you won't have to use as many slings.
One important matter, though - slings. You'll probably want to place only two to four of those stiff quickdraws you have, per pitch. Eight quickdraws is way too many for most trad pitches around here, where you'll be placing nuts galore. Buy some shoulder-length runners, and swap most of your biners off the dogbones and onto the runners*. Important note - you'll save yourself a lot of hassle if you color co-ordinate the length of your runners. For example, all of my standard-length runners are red, while the longer ones are blue.
Other things you'll probably want to buy eventually:
A few more cams - just see which ones tend to move off your rack most, or sizes that are missing, and then buy one or two of those.
Another half set of nuts in the small range. In the large range, your tricams in passive mode will work fine to double the nuts.
A brown tricam. Red is too small for some nice tricam placements.
But again, the rack you've got is fine to start with, as long as you know how to use it fairly efficiently.
Have fun!
GO
*If you can find them, get those new thin Mammut Dyneema 8mm draws, otherwise go with the standard Spectra 9/16 inch ones. And pick up maybe one each, one and a half, and double length, ones.
|
|
|
|
|
blueeyedclimber
Oct 26, 2004, 7:47 PM
Post #13 of 48
(6943 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 19, 2002
Posts: 4602
|
Since you are new to trad, make sure you work all your kinks out on single pitch, and your beginners rack should be bigger, not smaller. 5 pitches up is not the time to be working out your rope management, wondering if you should have more gear, or worse, totally oblivious to the problems that lie ahead. Spend the time on single pitches to set up belays, and belay your partner from the top. You should not just jump right into a multipitch without a good understanding of what you need and how to use it.
Assuming, you have done that and you do have some experience under your belt, your rack is a decent size and could serve you well provided you know how how to use it. Speaking of Whitehorse, you'd be lucky to put 3 or 4 pieces in on some ptiches.
Josh
|
|
|
|
|
cracklover
Oct 26, 2004, 7:59 PM
Post #14 of 48
(6943 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10162
|
In reply to: Speaking of Whitehorse, you'd be lucky to put 3 or 4 pieces in on some ptiches. Josh
Believe it. Available protection for the top two (full rope length) pitches of Beginner's Route = 1 bolt. Of course the climbing is 5.2, and anyway, most folks skip those last two pitches and escape out right. But the point stands. ;)
GO
|
|
|
|
|
slobmonster
Oct 26, 2004, 8:02 PM
Post #15 of 48
(6943 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 28, 2003
Posts: 1586
|
There are few moderate routes in NH that need more gear than what you already have. Keep in mind that it can be easy to pitch things short, if you find yourself running out of hardware. I second the suggestion to add a brown tricam, and a few cordelette-length slings.
|
|
|
|
|
asandh
Oct 26, 2004, 8:13 PM
Post #16 of 48
(6943 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 13, 2002
Posts: 788
|
:)
|
|
|
|
|
deleted
Deleted
Oct 26, 2004, 8:15 PM
Post #17 of 48
(6936 views)
Shortcut
Registered:
Posts:
|
[quote:c9b688458a]Re: Is my rack to Small?[/quote:c9b688458a]
How would I know? ask your girlfriend.
|
|
|
|
|
jebel_andi
Oct 26, 2004, 8:24 PM
Post #18 of 48
(6943 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 20, 2003
Posts: 122
|
Thanks guys, the two people I learnt most of my trad from were guides so I was taught as if I was going to lead for people who have never climbed before so I learnt much in the way of rescue. I have done multi pitch climbs before on and ice and sport where I have lead and I have followed a few trad climb so I know how to do multi pitch stuff. I all ready have a webolette and a cordalette and I have experience with trad anchors. I think I will get dubles of the bd cams and get some more slings for trad draws before I rock on over to cannon (I know there isn't much fixed pro there unlike cathedral and white horse). So it is my understanding that my rack is fine but I should get some dubles of certain things before I do roughts where there are no bolt anchors. So does that sound about right or does any one think I am missing anything?
|
|
|
|
|
glowering
Oct 26, 2004, 8:48 PM
Post #19 of 48
(6943 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 13, 2002
Posts: 386
|
In reply to: In reply to: Re: Is my rack to Small? How would I know? ask your girlfriend.
Huh? How can a guy have a rack, this must be from the girl.
So if you are an A cup I'd say yeah your rack is too small, but don't go bigger than a C or they won't look at all natural.
|
|
|
|
|
sbaclimber
Oct 26, 2004, 9:03 PM
Post #20 of 48
(6943 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 22, 2004
Posts: 3118
|
In reply to: P.S. Please don't post just to say you started climbing in the seventies with a handfull of stoppers, three hexes, a hemp rope and 60 foot run outs. We all know you're tough.
Yes, doubles of some things are nice to have. I have never regretted having a double set of BD stoppers, though the advice of maybe having 2 different types is a good idea. Double #.5(or comparable alien) and #2 cams are also really nice (finger and hand sized cracks). From my experience, it is all a delicate balance anyway. When the climbing gets harder, I tend to start zippering stuff up, but that means more gear to carry/have, which means more weight, which means harder to climb. Vicious cycle.......
I guess I would say try easier and well-protected routes at first, and see if your rack has what you need, or do you find yourself searching for that piece that you placed 40 feet back (you will always end up searching at some point, but on a well protected route you can generally comprimise). I never got over to NH, so I am not sure how the climbing is. In the daks, your rack would probably be sufficient for most easier climbs.
One thing I have discovered is, if you are climbing multi-pitch with people who do not have much gear of their own, you can never have too many "extra" carabiners, especially lockers!
|
|
|
|
|
petsfed
Oct 26, 2004, 9:20 PM
Post #21 of 48
(6943 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 25, 2002
Posts: 8599
|
Its a nice sized rack for moving fast. Not much to it, so you may run into trouble if the climbing gets hard. Two ways to combat this: buy more gear, or don't place gear you don't need to. Sewing up a 5.3 because its waaaay exposed (or above the crux) could do your anchor a disservice. Very rarely will you need a specific piece for an anchor. The resourceful leader can reach a belay with any 3 pieces left and construct an anchor that could support the Queen Mary. Be intelligent about your placements and your rack is perfect. Barring that, get doubles in everything and start working out more. You'll need to be strong to carry that much pro everywhere you go.
|
|
|
|
|
mattm
Oct 26, 2004, 9:21 PM
Post #22 of 48
(6943 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 20, 2003
Posts: 640
|
In reply to: I have: BD stopper : 4-13 BD hexes : 7-10 BD cams : .75,1,2,3 Aliens: green,yellow,red Tricams: pink and red Trad draws: 8 Sport draws: 10
Just got back from NH and hit all those places - did a lot of the classics there (Recombeast, Book of Solemnity, Last Unicorn etc etc)
My comments on your rack - ALMOST there.
Add:
A Few more stoppers in the mid range
A Set of DMM peanuts or other micros
Ditch the hexes - great for alpine but not multi-pitch Granite (Flame away on this but I stand by it)
Double your BD Cams starting with .75 and going up (ie, more important to have the .75 before the 3) a 4 is needed for the Beast flake but not for much else.
Double the aliens you have and add one blue. They rocked up there (well, they rock anywhere)
You may need a cordelette but I only used it once - a lot of the anchors were bolted @ Cahterdral Whitehorse
A few more over the shoulder slings (24in) maybe 4?
a few accessory biners for the anchors
Double ropes are HUGE there for getting down fast. A lot of the raps can be done as just one (Down the thin air face if you're willing to do some 3rd class at the bottom) Whitehorse raps are nicer with 2 ropes too
|
|
|
|
|
cracklover
Oct 26, 2004, 9:49 PM
Post #23 of 48
(6943 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10162
|
In reply to: cracklover wrote: In reply to: Other things you'll probably want to buy eventually: A few more cams - just see which ones tend to move off your rack most, or sizes that are missing, and then buy one or two of those. Another half set of nuts in the small range. In the large range, your tricams in passive mode will work fine to double the nuts. A brown tricam. Red is too small for some nice tricam placements. But again, the rack you've got is fine to start with, as long as you know how to use it fairly efficiently. Well, first you say nonsense to my comment, then you pretty much agree with me by suggesting he add all the stuff above in your comment. You made my point .... and that point is precisely that beginning multi pitch leaders are NOT very efficient, so they are better off carrying too many pieces rather than too few.
What I was disagreeing with was the notion that the rack he currently owns is insufficient for multi-pitch trad climbing on cliffs like Cathedral, Whitehorse, or Cannon. I started lead climbing in the Northeast three years ago with a rack nearly identical to his, except for not having as many draws. I quickly realized that I was short on draws, but aside from that, I was fine. Yes, beginning leaders should place lots of gear, but generally we can place tons of nuts around here. I have been leading for three years without any doubles in cams, and what with the hexes I carry, I have only felt the lack once or twice. This is not Indian Creek!!!
Cheers!
GO
[edited for spelling]
|
|
|
|
|
shakylegs
Oct 26, 2004, 9:56 PM
Post #24 of 48
(6943 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 20, 2001
Posts: 4774
|
mattm, you've got good suggestions (and some great NE classics under your belt), but I believe the original poster is just starting out with trad.
I doubt, and not offense to jebel, that he'll be hitting the Book or the Beast just yet. He'll probably have figured his rack by the time he's ready to lead them.
|
|
|
|
|
dynoguy
Oct 26, 2004, 10:10 PM
Post #25 of 48
(6943 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 6, 2003
Posts: 730
|
Just be happy w/ the way you are. Plastic surgery is costly and dangerous.
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
