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justus
Oct 28, 2004, 3:35 AM
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Registered: May 8, 2004
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Considering the many important things in ice screw construction, including overall price, what are the best screws to get if just starting my rack? I don't necessarily want to buy the most expensive, but i also don't want to wish i had later.
what are people's thoughts and experiences?
Justus
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bradpatchin
Oct 28, 2004, 3:48 AM
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HI
BD tubo express are the only way to go. They rack very nice, start fast, and go in clean. I have a couple grivel 360's and find that there only downfall is that they are imposible to rack. I've also used cm lasers and find the lack of a speed knob is a problem. Cost could be factored in but even then I would go with the turbo express screws.
Brad
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fear
Oct 28, 2004, 4:52 AM
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I'm voting for the Grivel 360's. Smoothest and fastest cutting in bullet hard ice of any screw I've tried.
Yes they sorta suck to rack.... but..... if you use BD ice clippers exclusively they're not too bad and you can get three easily on a clip. Sort of an acquired taste.
That being said, the BD express screws are damn nice too and you wouldn't go wrong with those either. They also rack much easier.
I've learned to fear the Omega's or any other cheap screw for anything steep.
You'll only know by trying them out and seeing what you like 20 feet over your last piece on some hollow and candled 4+.
And lastly, keep them SHARP. Learn to sharpen them yourself or have it done correctly. No brand of screw works on cold concrete-ice for dick when dull....
-Fear
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slobmonster
Oct 28, 2004, 5:21 AM
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In reply to: just starting my rack?
Omegas are fine screws, and far cheaper than the (admittedly better) BD screws. I would suggest buying some of the former first, maybe three or four of them. Several BD screws will round out your ice rack if you're just starting out. If you find that you are gunning for longer and steeper pitches, the truth will soon reveal itself, as far as how many of which model you need.
Length: I currently have two 22cm, four 16/17cm, four 13cm, two 10cm. I do not necessarily take all of them for each and every pitch.
For example, if you want to climb exclusively at Lake Whillougby, VT, you will want a dozen of the sharpest, fastest-placing screws you can get.
As you progress through the grades, consider keeping a few of your sharpest screws for the stressful placements... they do indeed conserve energy. But if you can find a stance, don't blow these right away. You may find (like I did) that you top out on many routes with the best screws still on your harness.
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tradklime
Oct 28, 2004, 2:18 PM
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BD turbo express screws, offer the best balance of features. You'll be happy you spent a little extra up front... trust me.
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sarcat
Oct 28, 2004, 2:50 PM
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I have 6 of the BD Turbo Express screws and 3 of the BD Express screws. I wish all 9 were the Turbo version. Would have gladly paid the difference.
Stupid me.
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cfnubbler
Oct 28, 2004, 3:11 PM
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1. Grivel 360s- The racking issue is way overblown IMO. I don't have problems racking them on large bent gates (I use the old BD fins). But even if I did, they place soooo much better than anything else that I'd still choose them.
2. BD Express / Turbo Express. - 2nd easiest placing screws on the market IMO, and a fine choice.
I use predominantly 17cm if the ice is thick enough, and end up placing a lot of stubbies too.
22cm screws are not worth the extra effort and time to place on steep ice, IMO. I do sometimes carry a couple for belays, making threads, and placing from good stances before venturing on to cruxy sections.
I'd highly recommend budgeting for a half dozen or so screamers as well. In recent years, I've taken to putting a screamer on almost every screw.
Regarding price, I consider it the least important consideration. Believe me, when you're up there cursing as you try to get a cheapo screw to bite, you won't be chuckling to yourself about the money you saved.
-Nubbler
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thegreytradster
Oct 28, 2004, 3:42 PM
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In reply to: 1. Grivel 360s- The racking issue is way overblown IMO. I don't have problems racking them on large bent gates (I use the old BD fins). But even if I did, they place soooo much better than anything else that I'd still choose them. -Nubbler
The handle can be a little anoying at first, but it doesn't take long to figure out how to solve that problem. They almost place themselves! The other advantage is that the longer handle makes them much easier to clean from a poor stance or if they freeze in.
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adeptus
Oct 28, 2004, 4:19 PM
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Like all most everybody else I would definitely recommend the Grivel 360 and BD Turbo Expess.
Even if it means you can only afford a few. I’d rather have 5 super screws than 15 cheap soft metal screws that won’t be of much use anyway.
Like Nubbler said: You won't be chuckling to yourself about the money you saved.
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sandstone
Oct 28, 2004, 6:19 PM
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If you go cheap on your ice screws, it won't take long before you realize you screwed up. I like the BD Turbo Express. They're easy to use, either on the ice or on the rack.
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chriss
Oct 29, 2004, 12:39 AM
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I'm probably in the minority but I like the OP screws. It's the large opening in the hanger; makes them easier to rack and clip. The knob thing is always out so you don't have to mess with flipping it out and in. If (when) it gets broken, it's replaceable. Unlike the BD knob.
As far as ease of screwing in, they're all about the same. It depends on the ice you're putting it in.
I own OP/Smiley, BD, Chouinard, Camp, and russian Ti. Keep them sharp and they'll all go in.
chris
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cfnubbler
Oct 29, 2004, 12:51 PM
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In reply to: As far as ease of screwing in, they're all about the same.
With all due respect, I disagree strongly....NONE of the mentioned screws go in as easily as the Grivels, and the Russion ti screws barely go in at all without ratcheting them with your ice tool. I haven't had to resort to that since about 1989, and there's no reason the OP needs to either! The Grivels go in reasonably easily in even bullet proof ice once started.
I do agree that the OP BD clone screws are a decent bargain, but still prefer the real thing. I feel there's a noticable difference in ease of placement between them and BDs. By the way, I'm not a mindless BD drone- I just believe in this particular case, they do have the 2nd best product on the market.
-Nubbler
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tradmanclimbs
Oct 29, 2004, 2:01 PM
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there is no doubt that the grivels go in the best. I do have problems racking them though. It stinks to be fighting to get the screw off your harness when you are sketched. It allmost cancles out the ease of placement. the new BD screws go in allmost as well but rack super easy. The quick draw efect does help when you are sketched. I would like to try some of those grivel tube holsters? Cheap screws suck for steep ice. I do wish that the hangers on the BD screws were reflective so they wouldn't melt out so easy.
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justus
Oct 29, 2004, 2:08 PM
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Registered: May 8, 2004
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How many should i get of a particular size for my starter rack? Sounds like one or two 22s and mostly 16/17s with a few 13s and 10s?? sound like good ratios?
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chriss
Oct 29, 2004, 3:58 PM
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In reply to: As far as ease of screwing in, they're all about the same. It depends on the ice you're putting it in.
I guess I should have added something there.
Of all the current high end screws (OP BD Grivel DMM CM) on the market, they are all about the same for ease of screwing in. That being said, the single most difficult thing to do when placing a screw is starting it in the ice. Those first few turns to get the threads engaged. After that all screws feel basicly the same, just different levers and knobs. It depends on the ice.
chris
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fear
Nov 1, 2004, 10:36 PM
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Registered: Jun 16, 2003
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One BIG advantage of the Grivel's is the ability to place those suckers in highly featured ice without having to clear as much crap away. Since the handle folds out all the way you don't have to clear a whole circular area like you would with the BD's longer fixed hanger(or any other screw I can think of).
Several broken screws in recent memory were supposedly from not sinking the screw to it's hanger, a very important point....
-Fear
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