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wzrdgandalf
Nov 1, 2004, 3:00 AM
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I have heard many answers to this question. You would think that it means climbing with no belay on routes longer than simple bouldering. But some people have said that that is not what it means. Sometimes i get the impression that it is climbing with a rope but just with natural features, but that makes no sense. I just want to figure this out cause it has bothered me for a long time.
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curt
Nov 1, 2004, 3:08 AM
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In reply to: I have heard many answers to this question. You would think that it means climbing with no belay on routes longer than simple bouldering. But some people have said that that is not what it means. Sometimes i get the impression that it is climbing with a rope but just with natural features, but that makes no sense. I just want to figure this out cause it has bothered me for a long time.
Pay attention, because this is the right answer. Free climbing is ascending (climbing) a route by using only natural rock features to make upward progress, or to rest on. If you pull on your gear, or your rope, or if you rest on your gear or your rope--you are not free climbing. Instead, you have employed a point of "aid" in your ascent.
Curt
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climbinginchico
Nov 1, 2004, 3:22 AM
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Curt, would a hanging belay be considered aid then?
Edit: Other than that, I agree with Curt's definition.
I might add that it normally uses a rope and gear for protection. Free soloing would be climbing using no protection.
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sustainedclimber
Nov 1, 2004, 3:24 AM
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The issue I think you're having is that there is the term freeclimbing as well as freesoloing. THEY ARE DIFFERENT. Free soloing invloves no rope, no protection, no partner etc. Freeclimbing on the other hand is exactly what Curt described, an ascent using only the rock for forward progress. Sport climbing and Traditional leading fall under this category. They are called freeclimbing to differentiate from aid climbing which refers to a usage of man made equipment to help you up to the top.
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curt
Nov 1, 2004, 3:27 AM
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In reply to: Curt, would a hanging belay be considered aid then?
Good question. A hanging belay falls into one of those weird gray areas. If you are climbing a route using the originally established belays (which may be hanging) this is not considered to be aid. However, if you divide a difficult pitch into two pitches, by installing a new hanging belay in the middle, this is generally considered to be aid--or at least some form of shenanigans.
Curt
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milk
Nov 1, 2004, 3:29 AM
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Ok, this is a question I have been meaning to ask, as far as I understand free soloing means climbing unroped but in one of the magazines covering Tommy Caldwell’s free accent of that el cap line it says that he soloed part of it or something, I cant remember what it said exactly. So in this case what does solo mean? What is solo aiding?
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curt
Nov 1, 2004, 3:35 AM
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In reply to: Ok, this is a question I have been meaning to ask, as far as I understand free soloing means climbing unroped but in one of the magazines covering Tommy Caldwell’s free accent of that el cap line it says that he soloed part of it or something, I cant remember what it said exactly. So in this case what does solo mean? What is solo aiding?
Free climbing = as I described above.
Free soloing = like bouldering, but taller. No rope or gear is used. Very bad consequences if you fall.
Soloing = climbing by yourself, includes both roped soloing and free soloing.
Curt
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wzrdgandalf
Nov 1, 2004, 4:33 AM
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thanks for clearing that one up for me. i remember seeing the movie k2: the ultimate high when i was a kid and at the beginning of the movie one of the guys says he is going to "free the whole pitch" and wondered what he was saying because he obviously was belayed. thanks for the info.
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petsfed
Nov 1, 2004, 5:06 AM
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In reply to: Ok, this is a question I have been meaning to ask, as far as I understand free soloing means climbing unroped but in one of the magazines covering Tommy Caldwell’s free accent of that el cap line it says that he soloed part of it or something, I cant remember what it said exactly. So in this case what does solo mean? What is solo aiding?
For more info on roped solo systems, consult the Aid forum, the Petzl webpage, and the manual for the Wren Silent Partner. Aid soloing is just aid climbing while self-belayed via a roped solo system.
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fixednut
Nov 1, 2004, 5:58 AM
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In my opinion, it is any climbing that you do while not in prison. I will leave this open to debate.
I do know, however, that it sure as hell isn't what you do at the Gunks after being stopped by a Mohonk Preserve ranger.
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theishofoz
Nov 1, 2004, 6:13 AM
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hehe you said shananagins
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fixednut
Nov 1, 2004, 6:18 AM
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All shenanigans have a proper time and place.
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pupjr
Nov 1, 2004, 6:52 AM
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i swear if i'll pistol whip they next guy who says shanagins
Hey Farva what's the place you go to eat with all that stuff on wall???
What? shanagins???
AHH!!
hehe i love that movie
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markc
Nov 1, 2004, 7:10 PM
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In reply to: Sport climbing and Traditional leading fall under this category [free]. They are called freeclimbing to differentiate from aid climbing which refers to a usage of man made equipment to help you up to the top.
A toprope that is never tensioned can also be considered free climbing. As long as the belay is never snug and you never sit on the rope, you were unaided in your progress.
The confusion usually seems to come from two totally separate concepts:
free vs. aid climbing - Free climbing (as curt and others stated) is using rope(s) and equipment solely for the sake of protection. Any use of equipment to rest or for upward progress is aid climbing.
solo vs. partnered climbing - Soloing is climbing done by yourself. You can use rope and equipment to belay yourself, or you can free-solo (climbing without protection).
HTH,
mark
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rocloco
Nov 1, 2004, 7:56 PM
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Isn't climbing with a solo device still considered free climbing as long as your progress comes only from your hands and feet etc. pushing and pulling on natural features? I have a silnet partner that I use quite a bit on a top rope and I can assure you that other than the set up to catch a fall the climbing is exactly the same as on a regular belay. I've also led trad pitches with it and again...other than the system used for belaying the climbing is exactly the same as for regular trad free climbing.
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maculated
Nov 1, 2004, 8:02 PM
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I was at a party last week where someone asked me if I was going free climbing in Yosemite. The average layperson seems to think that means soloing.
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camhead
Nov 1, 2004, 8:41 PM
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Maculated said it best.
If I had a penny for every newspaper article on a soloing fatality that says something like, "the victim was free climbing without a rope."...
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markc
Nov 1, 2004, 8:58 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Isn't climbing with a solo device still considered free climbing as long as your progress comes only from your hands and feet etc. pushing and pulling on natural features? I have a silnet partner that I use quite a bit on a top rope and I can assure you that other than the set up to catch a fall the climbing is exactly the same as on a regular belay. I've also led trad pitches with it and again...other than the system used for belaying the climbing is exactly the same as for regular trad free climbing. The would be free roped soloing. Or Roped Free Soloing. Or freeclimbing by rope solo. Or something. These terms weren't handed down by some greater naming authority of rockclimbing ... they kinda evolved into what they currently mean. In regards to movement, free means self-propelled by natural features. In regards to belay, free means without ropes, et la. Concievably you could free aid solo, where you didn't use a rope. All pitches = A6. coylec
I decided to stay away from that terms can of worms. "Rope-solo free climbing" would probably get my vote. Tis a mouth-full.
mark
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eray01
Nov 25, 2004, 6:25 PM
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this is what it means: any type of climbing where the climber uses their hands and feet to ascend the rock with the rope system serving only as protection rather than direct assistance in hauling you up the rock. This is most types of climbing free soloing is what most inexperienced people refer to as free climbing. This is climbing without a rope or any protection. just you, your hands and feet, a chalkbag, shoes, and your gigantic cajones.
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gottarock
Nov 25, 2004, 7:52 PM
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Curt - well said... simple and concise.
funny how some threads are like a movie...
the best quote is in the first 5 minutes and everything else is just kind of redundant.
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