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thegreytradster
Nov 4, 2004, 1:23 AM
Post #26 of 40
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Registered: Jul 7, 2003
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A small tarp is pretty much our standard setup,but for other reasons.
If the weather is bad you need a place to cook and hang out
If the weather is good, you need some shade on rest days. The sun at 12k ft+ is like a combo tanning bed/toaster oven.
The proper method for dealing with foul weather, Scotch, rain gear, hefty bags and a tarp.
http://socalhotclimbs2.com/...as/sip6/Dscf2722.jpg
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usmc_2tothetop
Nov 4, 2004, 1:43 PM
Post #27 of 40
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Registered: Dec 18, 2002
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OK...so.........I changed sleeping bags last night. This bag is a very old bag. It's Wool and canvase, and it's from World War II from the Army. It's a cold weather bag (mummy) although for this bag cold weather means like 15 maybe 10 degrees.
I slept great. and though I'm sure the bag absorbed the water I don't think there was that much condensation this time. I mean there was water but not as much and the bag wasn't really all too bad. I think with my other bag the night before being that it was a -20 I was half way out of it cause it was too hot which allowed my body to give off more heat into the bivy. I also tried to be concious of leaving the hole right by my face to breath out of. I left the bivy zipper fully open. Last night it was much cooler and it got down to 26.
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usmc_2tothetop
Nov 4, 2004, 3:45 PM
Post #28 of 40
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So I guess I can somewhat work around the condensation thing. My other question.....My -20 down bag. Whats the lifespan on these and what are the effects of some water exposure (condensation) It is water repellent and I do hang it when not in use. It will probly get light use this winter??????????ANY TAKES.
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sspssp
Nov 4, 2004, 4:39 PM
Post #29 of 40
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In reply to: So, what I'm considering now is using a really small (5' x 5') tarp in conjunction with my bivy.... It'll add a little weight, but if you make one out of Tyvek or something it could be really light and comfortable.
Welcome to "weight creep." You go light and then keep adding little items to stay warmer and drier. If you add up the weight of two bivys (yours and yours parnters) and then add a large tarp on top of that, are you saving anything over taking a lightweight tent?
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chriss
Nov 4, 2004, 7:33 PM
Post #30 of 40
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Registered: Jul 13, 2004
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In reply to: gore tex is a horrible material for shelters, this is why single wall tents are not made of them, and this is why gor tex bivvies suck nuts.
The reason you don't see more tents made of Goretex is the tent most pass flame testing to be sold in most US states. Goretex has been used in tents elsewhere (Europe) and works fine.
Goretex in bivys also works fine. Bivy sack aren't tested like tents. Most people don't expect to light flammables inside a bivy.
chris
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mike_ok
Nov 4, 2004, 7:48 PM
Post #31 of 40
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Registered: Feb 21, 2003
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In reply to: In reply to: So, what I'm considering now is using a really small (5' x 5') tarp in conjunction with my bivy.... It'll add a little weight, but if you make one out of Tyvek or something it could be really light and comfortable. Welcome to "weight creep." You go light and then keep adding little items to stay warmer and drier. If you add up the weight of two bivys (yours and yours parnters) and then add a large tarp on top of that, are you saving anything over taking a lightweight tent?
Light Bivy: 1lb (x2 for a couple)
1.3oz SilNylon 8x10 Tarp: 13oz
Total: 2lb13oz
The lightest of two man tents are around that range, but extremely expensive. Most "light" tents are going to fall in the 4-5lb range. So, yes, this is lighter. Moreover, the weight is split between two people rather than the one carrying the whole tent.
Furthermore, this setup is more comfortable (in my opinion, at least). Ultralight tents are pretty cramped. An 8x10 tarp gives plenty of room, open air, a greater feeling of being out-doors, etc. Not to mention its safer to cook in, etc (I can never bring myself to cook in tents, unless its just pouring rain).
In addition, this is the driest/warmest combination I've ever used. Recently I took some folks backpacking. They choose to sleep in the tent, I slept in bivy under tarp. I slept warm and dry all night, they had huge condensation problems.
Yay for tarp and bivy!
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sspssp
Nov 4, 2004, 11:56 PM
Post #32 of 40
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Oh, I don't really disagree, just playing a bit of devil's advocate. However, is your bivy really only 1 pound. A quick look in my climbing catalog shows the lightest (waterproof) at 1lb 4 oz and most of them are closer to a pound and half. So now the total weight for two would be over 3 lbs.
I've done the bivy with the tarp and was considering a ultra-light tent instead. As an aside (attempt to the hijack the thread), if you have a down bag with an epic fabric and it pushes up against a single walled tent in the rain, how wet does your bag end up?
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mike_ok
Nov 5, 2004, 4:07 PM
Post #34 of 40
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Registered: Feb 21, 2003
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Actually, I use a fairly heavy Bivy at 2lbs - if I had it to do over again I'd get a lighter one, but for what I do, it was a fairly good purchase.
ie, I have the ID Salathe, which includes a number of features I wanted.
Also - the ID is TegralTex which is their verson of Bibler's material (whatever thats called). It has the fuzzy stuff which "wicks" the moisture away. I have slept in it in downpours, and it did get damp inside, but never more than "clammy". My down bag was likewise damp in the morning, but not considerably so.
Now, had I combined this with the tarp (my favorite combination) I dare say I could have stayed completely dry - you can leave more vents open w/out worry of water. Only water worry is wind spray and runnels, etc.
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sspssp
Nov 5, 2004, 11:40 PM
Post #35 of 40
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Well, I figured somebody would come up with a lighter bivy. I looked at the MEC bivy, without knowing a great deal about it, I would guess that it would let more water through than a gortex bivy. It might also let more moisture out, but I really doubt it is as waterproof as the gortex bivies that are over 1 pound. I also wouldn't be keen on the open (non-closable) face, but it is light and each to their own.
2 pounds for a bivy sounds like a lot, but if it keeps you warm and [relatively] dry, maybe that's not too bad. As far as staying dry in a bivy, I'm sure some people sweat more than others, which is going to factor into it also.
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lehrski
Nov 6, 2004, 1:32 AM
Post #36 of 40
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Registered: Aug 29, 2003
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I've used a bivy with a down bag summer and winter on the West coast. I have a silk liner which makes it a lot more comfortable (and a lot easier to keep the down clean). It's definitely key not to overdress.
I also have a very thin plastic sheet from the hardware store that I prop over the head of the bivy using my hiking poles and then I can leave about 8 inches of the zipper open. I have an integral designs bivy and the weight with the plastic sheet is about 15 oz.
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chriss
Nov 6, 2004, 5:32 PM
Post #37 of 40
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Registered: Jul 13, 2004
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Less than 1lb bivy sacks are not uncommon these days. The "lightweight backpacker" groups have pushed the weight of things like this really low. The products are stronger and more durable than you might think for the weight. New fabrics have made them quite light and durable.
www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/bivys
There are other companies that make bivys and tents like this. The tents are not so much a "mountain" design (ie. not for high winds and snow loading).
chris
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sspssp
Nov 8, 2004, 9:15 PM
Post #38 of 40
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Registered: Jan 2, 2003
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I'm not trying to argue that there aren't bivy sacks under one pound. My climbing catalog shows a BD bivy made of epic that is under one pound. My question is whether these are really as water proof as gortex for an extended, hard rain. Anyone have trip reports from extended storms in the newer ultra-light bivys?
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jhattan
Nov 9, 2004, 1:20 PM
Post #39 of 40
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Registered: Nov 15, 2001
Posts: 122
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BackPackGearTest.org has some reviews on the Bibler Winter Bivy.
BackpackingLight.com has a review on the Oware Epic Bivy and also on the ID Endurance Bag Cover (this review is for members only though).
That said, I'm fairly certain that none of these three could handle an extended rain. The MEC Micro Bivy could (it's made from TegralTex....the same stuff ID uses on their single wall tents), but as you pointed out, the bivy's design would require a tarp.
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