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winter
Nov 22, 2004, 5:54 PM
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Interesting topic of discussion between a friend and I the other day.
We surmised that those who had great sadness in their life and an unhappy childhood either through family circumstances or bullying, could not form close personal relationships in adulthood with those who had not. ANy thoughts on this? Do you agree that it is difficult to relate to those who had leave it to beaver lives if you did not? I really think that being badly bullied as a child forms the person you are as an adult, and often it shapes those you are close to as an adult.
I would be intested to see other's thoughts on this.
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dookie
Nov 22, 2004, 6:05 PM
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hmmm, interesting topic winter! I've had many conversations with friends and family about how we all 'end up' the way we are as adults. My childhood was a very happy one from what I can remember - filled with lots of time outdoors, a loving family etc.. However, I was made fun of a lot when I was in elementary school by the 'cool' kids in grades older than me - I have memories of getting made fun of because of what I wore into Jr. High when I didn't get to wear brand names like Benetton Esprit and Forenza becuase we didn't have money to spend on things like that. Made my skin pretty tough. I find the turning point for me was the divorce of my parents when I was 16 and my sister was 8. It's interesting to see how that event affected each of us differently (it was unexpected to me at least, I had no idea my parents were unhappy, which in a way made it even more difficult to understand). My sister found the boy she loves when she was 16, and they've been together ever since and plan to be married in the next few years (she's now 20). I think the divorce made her strive for normalcy when it comes to personal relationships in her life. Whereas with me - I ran. I immediatly decided I would go off to boarding school on a ski scholarship, went off to College many hours away from home, and never looked back. My family says I have a habit of 'running away' from conflicts in my life. Maybe my flight or fight response was flight, I dunno - I do know that I tend to push people away from me and that has been hard on my personal relationships. I have no problem with walking away from everything (including people I care about) and starting over again somewhere new. I've done it a number of times. I don't necessarily find it hard to relate to others who haven't been through the same kinds of things, but I often find myself bewildered that their lives have been so different from mine, and wonder what I'd be like if things had gone differently.
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kimmyt
Nov 22, 2004, 6:09 PM
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I tend to think of it more as a lack of naivete when it comes to entering into relationships.
I went through my parent's divorce at an early age. It didn't scar me for life, although it did affect my outlook on relationships. I will never be ablto to enter into a relationship with someone saying that I'll love them forever. Some part of me doesn't believe in forever. I don't find anything wrong with that. In fact, anyone who can say that they'll love me forever, I feel to be insincere.
So, yeah, I guess I'm a prickly little pear, but I'm ok with that.
K.
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macherry
Nov 22, 2004, 6:17 PM
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in general, i had a pretty carefree/happy childhood. My older siblings would probably think otherwise. Both my folks worked....not much for luxuries in a house with 7 kids..............and my grandma lived with us too. I don't really remember getting a lot of one-on-one time with my parents. I don't remember wanting for anything and by the time i reached pre-teen status, my older sibs had moved out and there was just me and my little brother. Had lots of freedom, my parents were/are happily married. The only think i think that affected me as an adult is a need for privacy and personal space..........i don't like to be surrounded by ppl all the time and i do give my kids more personal time and i am more involved in their lives than my parents were in mine.......with a healthy dose of freedom that i expereinced!
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maww
Nov 22, 2004, 7:07 PM
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my childhood was pretty much crap all around. it wasn't the divorce that scarred me so much as my birth mother's lack of maturity & responsibility for me. but because of the way she treated me, i have always tried very hard to be a responsible and loyal person..probably too much so. the way she treated me has led me to be her opposite.
i have difficulty in personal relationships period. i have trust issues and separation anxiety when it comes to people i love. but i am aware of my issues and i handle them myself. i'm an adult and i don't need someone else to take care of my problems, i'll do it myself. i have a strong stubborn & independent streak - that seems to be an issue in relationships too. :oops: but i do have some very long-term friendships that i cherish as much as i cherish my family. i know one day i will find a man to be with and it may take a long time to develop that relationship but i have found that relationships that progress slowly usually become significant long-term relationships for me. i know myself and i know what i need from a man who expects to be my partner. i think one day i may find it.
if anything, my sucky childhood has helped me develop a strong sense of my individual self and i am now learning how to integrate that into relationships. i think that is one of the greatest struggles of adulthood for most of us. too few people know who they are and what they want/need/expect from personal relationships. that is more than 1/2 the battle in succeeding in a personal relationship - or so i think.
just my 2 cents. ok it might be a bit more than 2 cents! :wink:
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maculated
Nov 22, 2004, 7:24 PM
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Agreed. I tend to seek out people with a little bit of tragedy in their lives. It matures you, makes you sensitive to others, and all around more open to understanding. I've actually made some of my best friends through common strife.
It's those beautiful people in their beautiful homes with their beautiful life (how did I get there?:P) who do not have character development. They are usually vapid and self-absorbed simply because life treats them well and they expect it.
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winter
Nov 22, 2004, 8:27 PM
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Wow, interesting reading your posts. Thanks for the honest insight.
I liked maculated's perspective on tradgedy. I think it forms stronger people who cherish the good things in their life alot more.
For years, my ex told me that I am how I am due to the shit childhood I had. I vehemently denied it saying that I despise weakness about that sort of thing, and hated how people hid behind childhood trauma in adulthood. I refused to use that as an 'excuse' for anything, including the way I acted in relationships. Yet, I think we had a common bond because we were both bullied mercilessly as children and were seriously not happy then as a result.
I know now, looking back that I acted a certain way probably because of how I grew up. I refused to get really close to people and yet was over the top sad when they rejected me, usually due in large part to the distance I maintained. A viscous circle of being surprised when people couldn't take my coldness anymore...
I don't know if my parent's divorce affected me really that much, but my parents and how they were was less than ideal. Being fiercly independant as a result has alot of advantages but can backfire at times too.
So , this whole thing has come more to light lately because now I am dating this guy who has never had a sad day in his life. Never had any trauma, never been teased by other kids, never watched his parents fight, had his parents there at activities and concerts. Just soo incredibly diferent from me in that respect, insanely happy at all times in his life. I wonder if he can ever really understand me coming from such a diferent background and wonder if it matters at all?
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maculated
Nov 22, 2004, 8:32 PM
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Winter, I am a bitter, bitter person when it comes to love, but I still think that it can work out between you and the guy. My best friend from high school is the same way. It irritates me when she goes, "I have the perfect family," but i spend my Christmases with that perfect family and I like it.
I really do intend to find a man with a strong and loving family so I can have that for my children, and myself too. Not to say my family isn't loving, just messed up (my parents were through here on Friday, my mom talking about how she is an emotionally battered woman behind Dad's back. . . blah blah blah). Though, to be fair, my unhappy childhood was because I was just about the most sensitive kid in town.
I want to also second Maww in the helping to know what you're about. That explains a lot about my independence. Don't trust others with your emotions and needs until they earn it.
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winter
Nov 22, 2004, 8:38 PM
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In reply to: Winter, I am a bitter, bitter person when it comes to love, but I still think that it can work out between you and the guy. My best friend from high school is the same way. It irritates me when she goes, "I have the perfect family," but i spend my Christmases with that perfect family and I like it. I really do intend to find a man with a strong and loving family so I can have that for my children, and myself too. Not to say my family isn't loving, just messed up (my parents were through here on Friday, my mom talking about how she is an emotionally battered woman behind Dad's back. . . blah blah blah). Though, to be fair, my unhappy childhood was because I was just about the most sensitive kid in town.
Hmm, interesting. I am going to spend christmas with his insanely happy family.
And wow, I never thought about being a sensitive child untill you mentioned it, but christ, I must have been the worst. I cried every day after school when I didn't get invited to the right birthday parties ect. What a baby I was.
Family issues though, those were super bad, not due to senstitivity and I haven't told the guy about any of the bad stuff because I'm afraid he wouldn't like me anymore if he knew... gong show.
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maculated
Nov 22, 2004, 8:40 PM
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In reply to: And wow, I never thought about being a sensitive child untill you mentioned it, but christ, I must have been the worst. I cried every day after school when I didn't get invited to the right birthday parties ect. What a baby I was.
Wait, this isn't normal? I still do this.
The dude will like you no matter what. People don't stop liking you because of your past bad experiences. That's a cop-out.
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jumpingrock
Nov 22, 2004, 9:00 PM
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Doesn't this thread belong in the ladies room? Only ladies have the balls to post up about there childhoods! :lol:
My childhood was messed up. I was picked on something major by my classmates until I was big enough to beat the crap outta them... even then I never did so it wasn't till I got out of the hellish jr. high and moved away from all the idiots that I wasn't picked on. My father has serious expectation issues of me (and my sister but she actually lived up to them :)) and many a fight emerged over me and the lack of effort I put into many things in general.
How has this affected my relationships? Well it makes me much more sensitive when people poke fun at me... even if I know that it is all in jest. I don't handle sarcasm very well. But I deal with it.
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winter
Nov 22, 2004, 9:05 PM
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In reply to: The dude will like you no matter what. People don't stop liking you because of your past bad experiences. That's a cop-out.
You're right, I know he wouldn't stop liking me, but I am torn between telling him some stuff and not. I don't really want him to know that stuff about me, but by the same token, I think it would help him to understand me a little....more my problem than his.
JR, I was thinking the same thing, not a lot of guys would post here....
Being bullied sucks, happened to me all the time. Basically any bad stuff that can happen to a kid I had, I think alot of people are like that though.
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mwbtle
Nov 22, 2004, 9:09 PM
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In reply to: Basically any bad stuff that can happen to a kid I had, I think alot of people are like that though.
yeah, I always wonder about those people who made my life hell back in the day. You know, like whether they look back on childhood fondly, and where the heck you end up when you had a great childhood of picking on other kids...instead of being picked on.
I can't say I know anyone who was a picker instead of a pickee.
which makes one wonder what happened to them.
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winter
Nov 22, 2004, 9:16 PM
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In reply to: I can't say I know anyone who was a picker instead of a pickee. which makes one wonder what happened to them.
See, this was the point of my original post. I have two theories:
1)Either we can only form close adult relationships with others who were bullied as children...meaning if you were bullied, 99% of your good friends were as well.
OR
2) the bullies didn't know they were and still don't. Case in point, I have a fairly good friend now who was part of the popular crowd in school. WE had a brief discussion about this and she was like "there was no bullying at my school, everyone was nice to everyone" It seems like later in school it became "cool" to pretend to accept everyone when really the bullied kids still felt unaccepted. The 'cool' kids felt like they were so nice in great when really only the other kids knew what they were really like.
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petsfed
Nov 22, 2004, 9:30 PM
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In reply to: You're right, I know he wouldn't stop liking me, but I am torn between telling him some stuff and not. I don't really want him to know that stuff about me, but by the same token, I think it would help him to understand me a little....more my problem than his.
Just means eventually you'll have a total self destruction and he'll be there to help you put it back together. If he's not, you'll not get far enough with the self destruction to cause any lasting harm (or good). That's the nature of these things. If he wants you to emerge from the fire all phoenix like, he'll have to build and stoke that fire first.
A release like that will be a catharsis and you'll understand yourself more after the fact.
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charley
Nov 22, 2004, 10:36 PM
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Don't know if this touches much on your question.
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happiegrrrl
Nov 22, 2004, 11:07 PM
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I had a rather f'ed up childhood(to put it mildly), and it does affect my perceptions, behaviors and daily interactions with others. I have some pretty bad PTSD at times. To answer your question - It's not so long ago that I even began to accept that not everyone came from the same sort of stuff that I did. Even though I KNEW it, it was still hard to believe. And at this stage, it DOES sometimes seem a little strange to hear or see people behaving with love and fairness.
My first reaction, when hearing someone talk about positive, supporting experiences with their family, or treating another in that way, is still one of shock and surprise. There's this little voice in my head that goes "Oh, come on now....it's me you're talking to! You don't have to tow the "wonderful family" party line for my benefit!"
And then I realize that, they aren't covering up....that they really do have this perception. And then it's like...."Wow....I wonder what that must be like....."
It is really very hard for me to accept gentleness, kindness and compassion from someone, because my survival instinct tells me it's a set-up. It used to be that I just thaught "set-up" and never went farther; just shut people out. But I work on it daily, and the time frame of processing that internal dialog/panic ("Is it a set-up? No, Terrie, it's just a person being nice....Are you sure???....Well...uh, yeah. I think so...") is becoming shorter. I don't think it will ever be completely gone, especially in new and unfamiliar situations, and that is pretty sad. I will always have to acknowledge that initial fight or flight instinct. But, a nanosecond of pain before I realize it's okay is a hell of a lot shorter than eternity.
And I'll say this - it is starting to seem really beautiful, when I get to see healthy interaction between others, or find myself in a healthy scenario instead of what I was more used to for so long. I now understand that this is something that I can have for myself. So.....the balance is shifting in my ability to identify with those who don't have tragic backgrounds is improving. But - it has taken a lot of work. A lot.
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newbierockstar
Nov 22, 2004, 11:24 PM
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In reply to: I don't handle sarcasm very well. But I deal with it.
I'm sorry JR...I never meant to hurt you.... :oops: Please forgive me... :wink:
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joeschmoe
Nov 23, 2004, 12:27 AM
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I wouldn't say I had a bad childhood, but wouldn't call it great and dreamy (when all you can remember from 12-14 is thinking about suicide or slaughtering the bullying bastards it can't be that great) and I was an easy target to be picked on, a skinny little kid that didn't fight back.
But I haven't really noticed if my good friends are just those with 'troubled' childhoods. Most of my friends didn't have perfect families/childhoods, but honestly I think most people just don't have perfect families (maybe thats a lie we tell ourselves?). But I guess being a guy we don't tend to discuss that stuff very often. The bottom line that I came to terms with (and was really a turning point in my life) was my childhood helped to make the person I am today, but I'm responsible for the person I am tomorow.
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maculated
Nov 23, 2004, 12:59 AM
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In reply to: I think most people just don't have perfect families (maybe thats a lie we tell ourselves?). But I guess being a guy we don't tend to discuss that stuff very often. The bottom line that I came to terms with (and was really a turning point in my life) was my childhood helped to make the person I am today, but I'm responsible for the person I am tomorow.
Joe, honestly, I think "perfect families" are a lie, too. People just kid themselves when they think that, and the minute i hear it, I think what a crock that person must be feeding themselves.
Great final line to that post. So true. So true.
Group hug.
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padge
Nov 23, 2004, 2:45 AM
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I had a wonderfull childhood. I bullied all the dorks. I wore all the latest fashons. My family was perfect, and now I am vapid and self absorbed because life treats me well and I deserve it.
Actually I experienced what most everyone does. Got picked on a bit. Home life was a bit rough at times. Was touched by tragity and loss. Just the standard life experiences that shape you. I feel sorry for those that look at their youth with a negative view. I remember the good and bad times as vivid real experiences. Life is experience, that gut wrenching pain of loss or humilation, or that high you feel on the last day of school, or your first 'hook up'. That is what made me me.
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maculated
Nov 23, 2004, 5:40 AM
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Padge,
I think I'm a pretty positive person, but I had a crapola childhood. I contemplated suicide fairly regularly, got bullied (to the point of having people throw rocks at me and eating lunch by myself the majority of 3rd-9th grade), got so depressed I didn't go to school for a month . . . you try looking back on a time like that and tell me I've got a negative view of life.
I was born 13 years after my last sibling. It makes you grow up faster. I was always told that I would be happy when I got older - this is true. I, above most of the people I know my age and even older, have a fairly strong sense of self, motivations, etc. Maybe its because I spent so much time on my own ruminating. And while that's nice and all, I would give it all up for a crack at being happy as a normal person with a boyfriend and shopping on the weekends and working a normal job. All this stupid overachieving, hardwork, and personal advancement doesn't help me in the least. But you can't give up what makes you, you. I've tried.
Thank God for the ganja and climbing. It mellowed me out something awful.
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macherry
Nov 23, 2004, 5:54 AM
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this thread has me thinking.............As i posted previously, my childhood was pretty uneventful and happy for the most part. My family was not the"beaver Cleaver" family by any means. It was chaotic..with both parents working ( my mom doing shift work as a telephone operator) 7 kids, grandma, tiny house, no money etc.
My best friend, however, seemed to have the perfect family. There was only two kids, stay at home mom, seemed like lots of money, meals were always eaten at the table, and they always did the family trips and activities. I envyed her. It wasn't until we were adults that i found out her father was physically abusive, control freak, etc. She was a gifted athlete, but never was good enough for her mom or dad, she escaped early into a bad marriage, etc, but successful business life. last time i saw her she looked like shit, but drove a nice car and had a huge ranch.................her idea of success! I always thought she was the one with the good childhood!What i desired back then wasn't even real.......yeah i would have traded all my siblings for a chance at having my own room and the trips to disneyland. Now, i'm thankful for what seemed like a pretty dysfunctional family..............at the time.
But i wonder, does anyone truly have a Perfect, happy all the time childhood?
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coldclimb
Nov 23, 2004, 6:04 AM
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I'm still enjoying an awesome, carefree, happy childhood with awesome relationships with parents. At the moment, a close personal relationship is the very last thing I would want.
It would interfere with my climbing way too much. :wink:
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tradman
Nov 23, 2004, 11:02 AM
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Wow, there's some amazing posts here, and some heartbreaking ones too.
I struggled for a while with my past for some of the same reasons as others here - would people still like me? Why tell is it won't change anything? I'm a different person now, right? Right?
Things did get very bad, both in terms of what was done to me, and what I did to other people. But here's the rub: you know what I regret most? I regret the things I didn't do.
How many people did I condemn to live in misery at the places those f*ckers went to work after school, because I didn't sort them out properly?
How many innocent people have been hurt because I held back from just finishing one, two, three worthless scumbags when I had the chance?
Yeah I'm angry. Yeah I'm bitter. I'll say this to every person who's been abused like that, whether it was someone stealing your lunch money or someone trying to kill you and wreck your family time after time: who says you have to forget? Who says you need to rationalise it out? Don't you have a right to be angry? Look back on the things they did, look at how they ruined what should have been one of the best bits of your life, look at how your life is still affected. Who says you have to excuse what those b*stards did to you by getting over it?
Because I won't.
My life is great now, believe me. Maybe their lives are too, maybe they're not, I don't care. But I will not simply forget all those horrors. I deserve more than that. I deserve more than to have to be the one who suffers for those pricks' crimes.
So I'll keep all that in a box at the back of my mind until rare occasions like this, and I'll know that when I need it or want it it'll be there. I deal with and accept my actions, but I will not deal with or accept theirs.
:evil:
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