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sgorman
Nov 29, 2004, 11:21 PM
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anybody know anything about the status of this? any recent developments?
I've called about 12 people (state/town/district/park officials) so far (ahh, the beauty of bureaucracy) and no one mentioned or knew of a specific law against ice climbing. They do mention, however, that you will be arrested for doing it...hmmm. Apparently the issue is trespassing (in some places), which I can understand, but also one law enforcement officer informed me that there is some kind of law against dangerous and potentially harmful activities. Since when is that constitutional? A catch-all that can be molded to fit what the officials don't want to deal with. What the heck, walking can be dangerous if you're not careful!! Hunting certainly is! I understand that the state can be liable for the dangers of ice climbing in state parks, but where in the LAW does it say that the rangers can confiscate your tools, fine you $250 and give up to 2 weeks in jail? Maybe I'm missing something. Maybe there is a written ordinance banning ice climbing for legitimate reasons... or maybe the state parks just don't want to take the time to make it legal or illegal and would rather rely on draconian tactics to scare everyone away. I'm kind of blathering now, but I can assure you, it's not easy to access the laws regarding this issue---I've tried. that's my two cents. anyone else want to comment? (feel free to refute my statements...)
peace out
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tim
Nov 30, 2004, 6:58 AM
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1) Lick Brook is illegal because it's on private property
2) Six Mile was/is illegal because the city decided to make it thus
3) if you look in the recent issue of Climbing rag, there is a piece by Jeremy Haas on ice climbing in Ithaca, detailing a lot of this information and the people who are involved on both sides in trying to open up more areas in Ithaca to climbing for tourism's sake.
Ithaca (and the Finger Lakes in general) have tons of ice, it is a shame that so much of it is off-limits at the present, but if you want to be effective in getting your way, you should sharpen your arguments a bit. There is nothing in the constitution which forbids instruments of the state from governing citizens' actions on public lands... however there is also nothing that encourages it either. Municipalities are greedy, and if the promise of tourist spending outweighs that of a lawsuit for some poor schmuck's squashing under a pillar, you can bet things will change in a hurry. Well, a slow hurry at least.
If Jeremy is back in Ithaca he would be a good person to get in touch with, else the people at Cornell Outdoor Education might be able to point you in the right direction.
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cooketnet
Mar 22, 2005, 8:10 PM
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The following is from the Ithaca city code which can be found online. Ice climbing is prohibited in "Natural Areas" and it looks like the only "Natural Area" is Six Mile creek. The Code also only applies to the City of Ithaca. I am not sure if there are county provisions or state laws that deal with ice climbing.
§ 1-1. Penalties for offenses.
A.Unless a different penalty is specified, violations of the provisions of this Code shall be punishable by a fine of not more than $250 or imprisonment for a term of not more than 15 days, and not less than $100 or 25 hours of community service. For the purpose of determining the appropriate fine, each day on which the violation continues to exist shall be considered a separate offense. In no case shall a term of imprisonment exceeding 15 days be imposed as a penalty for violations of this Code, no matter how many days of violation are charged, unless, by separate Code section, the violation has been classified as a misdemeanor.
§ 114-1. Designation of natural areas; boundaries; maps.
A.The Common Council may designate as natural areas of the City of Ithaca those areas which are wholly or substantially in a natural and/or undeveloped state, which have significance for ecological and/or recreational reasons, and which are best appreciated and maintained in a natural, relatively undisturbed state (rather than as an active use park).
B.The Six Mile Creek Natural Area is a designated natural area of the City of Ithaca. Additional natural areas may be designated in the future, including but not limited to the following:
(1)The Ithaca Falls Natural Area;
(2)The Fuertes Sanctuary; and
(3)The Southwest Natural Area.
C.The boundaries of the natural areas shall be shown on maps approved and amended as necessary by Common Council.
§ 114-7. Prohibited activities.
The following activities are prohibited in all of the natural areas of the City of Ithaca, unless expressly permitted or carried out pursuant to a duly issued permit:
A.Camping.
B.Littering.
C.Amplified sound.
D.Wood cutting.
E.Trapping.
F.Rock and ice climbing and rappelling.
G.Hunting and shooting.
H.Motorized vehicle riding.
I.Bicycle riding.
J.Plant digging.
K.Flower picking.
L.Consumption of alcoholic beverages.
M.Fires of any kind.
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icenwy
Mar 22, 2005, 9:58 PM
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Constitutionally speaking, as long as they (city/county/state) have a taional reason for the law(i.e. it was rationally related to protection of the public health or economic and social stability of the state), it will pass the constitutional muster.
If you wanted to challenge the law, or even if you just want to screw with the city, look at § 114-7 and try to attain a permit. This section implies that there is a permitting process for the listed prohibited activities. I would try to attain a permit for each activity listed (probably better multiple people do so). I would bet that they(city council) have yet to install this procedure, and then it would be a flat out discrimination against all the people who are listed in the prohibited activities list.
Of course, try and reconcile with the city council before taking this path, and this post in no way presents legal advice.
Edited for a goofy typo-thanks to who caught it.
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botelhojw
Mar 30, 2005, 8:20 PM
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I agree with Tim. I moved to the area about 15 years ago from southern Maine and was shocked. We have some very good ice in the so. fingerlakes. Over the years there has been many attempts to open the area, and all have failed. In my opinion it all boils down to liability.
What I have found is that there are a couple of places like Naples and Salmon fall that are legal and have no issues. Good climbing at both. In terms of other locations the best thing is to park in an off the beaten path location, and walk into the woods quickly and with little exposure time on the road. Avoid Lick brook, too many passer bys and it is too close to the road. Find more remote locations and be discrete.
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