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bull
Dec 9, 2004, 4:17 AM
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I was dropped by my belayer in the gym the other day I'm ok but she is freaked out and I wonder how to help her get over it so we can get back to climbing. the way I fell was i finished the route but didn't have enough hands left to clip the final draw so I dropped I was about 5 feet above the last draw so I took about a 10 foot fall I weigh about 70 lbs more tham my belayer so she came about 10 feet off the floor wich let me fall 10 more feet but i was about 35 feet up to begin with so im still 15 feet off the floor and she gets brain lock and doesent know that she can lower her self so she lets go of the brake hand and grabs the the rope to me with both hands and dropps her self and me there were no injuries she got a small bit of rope burn but not bad but now she is afraid to belay me and thinks im mad at her but im not so do i try to talk to her about this or just let it go like it never happened
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enjoimx
Dec 9, 2004, 4:30 AM
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Bad series of events. Time will make it all better. In a week or two you guys will be back to climbing.
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baja_java
Dec 9, 2004, 4:30 AM
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hold her. cuddle her. and spoon her after the you-dropped-me sex, performed to re-establish trust and to reassure her of course
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bull
Dec 9, 2004, 4:38 AM
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Since my wife is standing over my shoulder i feel compelled to clarify that my belayer was not my wife but just a climbing partner
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kman
Dec 9, 2004, 4:42 AM
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It's an IQ test. If you let her belay you again it shows as a really really low score. You still score low for even considering it.
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vincent
Dec 9, 2004, 4:42 AM
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i can't wait for the day when my wife stands over my shoulder and compels me to clarify myself to hundreds of anonymous people. why don't you climb with your wife?
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bull
Dec 9, 2004, 4:50 AM
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because my lovely young wife is a non climber and is terrified of heights
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crgwhe
Dec 9, 2004, 5:20 AM
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In Febuary my belayer dropped me about 15 feet or so, breaking both my heels. I continue to climb on a regular basis but that was it for him. I think seeing me fall freaked him out to a point that he no longer climbs.
If your friend is interested in becoming a climber, she will learn from her mistake and continue the sport. If climbing is just something she engages in occasionally, she might just call it quits. And there is nothing wrong with that. If she wants to stop, don't push her to continue but instead, let her know you will be there when/if she decides to return.
If she wants to continue, I wouldn't just ignor the fact she made some serious belaying mistakes. I would talk to her, letting her know you have no problems climbing with her or allowing her to belay as she continues learning.
By the way, I have a Gri-Gri for sale.
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pulley
Dec 9, 2004, 5:21 AM
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Bull,
I climb with several ladies and I weigh quite a bit more than all of em (well not put together but individually). They usually clip themselves into an anchor to help keep them on the ground if I jerk them upwards.
Maybe your partner would feel more confident and willing to climb soon if you try to anchor her to the ground when it is possible.
pulley
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ptone
Dec 9, 2004, 5:25 AM
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My first question is what kind of belay device was she using?
Usually in the gym, new climbers are required to use grigris, which in the case of the climber outweighing the belayer should stay locked even if her feet are off the ground.( edited to say--this is no excuse for taking the brake hand off--grigris are for extra safety, not to cover up sloppy and/or irresponsible ropework.)
I've seen a few dumb accidents in the gym and at the cliff, by newbies and well experienced climbers alike. Little bit ago saw a guy climbing fast indoors, skipped the 3rd clip showing off to his female belayer, reacted to a shout on the dicey 4th and landed on his feet with the worst ropeburn i've ever seen. Poor woman--new as she was she did right by hauling in slack but only caught him with a tiny bit of stretch. If he hadn't grabbed the ropes his heels would be pretty powdered. She had nothing to do with it, he was being an idiot, but none the less, her climber basically decked a couple feet from her, and she went out in tears.
Anyhow...
True this was a very bad accident, and you are both lucky to walk away with burning hands and cheeks, but use it as a lesson.
One thing is for sure--if you encourage her and take the time to climb again, being careful to do your partner checks and saftey routine, she will always be a very careful belayer. Probably more careful than many who have never had any kind of fright. Use a grigri, play it safe one easy climbs, take some "test falls"so she gets used to the feel of catching you, and she'll be at it again, and the better climber for it.
Another thing is sure, if you take that "IQ test"shut her down and out as an idiot who made the mistake because she is stupid and defective, she will not only probably never climb again, she'll also have some job of healing. Accident like that is horrible--about as scary and helpless as one could ever feel, and regardless of the path she takes now she'll carry it.
Glad to hear no one got cracked.
Thanks for sharing the story--skipping the potential embarrassment of being labeled "Low IQ"to post it here can help us all be a little more thoughtful climbers in one way or another!
peace
p
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anykineclimb
Dec 9, 2004, 6:14 AM
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Sounds like a fairly new belayer.
IF you plan on climbing with her again, it might be a good idea to go over belaying technique again. Cover the "what ifs"
Is there a way for her to be anchored due to your weight difference?
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vegastradguy
Dec 9, 2004, 6:15 AM
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the belayers ultimate responsibility at the end of the day is to never ever take their brake hand off the rope.
you can talk about various skills and techniques, but this is the one constant.
your belayer needs to go back to belay school. if done in a positive way, she'll graduate with flying colors and she'll be the best belayer you could ask for. if done in a negative way, she may never belay again.
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din
Dec 9, 2004, 6:30 AM
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In reply to: I was dropped by my belayer in the gym the other day I'm ok but she is freaked out and I wonder how to help her get over it so we can get back to climbing. the way I fell was i finished the route but didn't have enough hands left to clip the final draw so I dropped I was about 5 feet above the last draw so I took about a 10 foot fall I weigh about 70 lbs more tham my belayer so she came about 10 feet off the floor wich let me fall 10 more feet but i was about 35 feet up to begin with so im still 15 feet off the floor and she gets brain lock and doesent know that she can lower her self so she lets go of the brake hand and grabs the the rope to me with both hands and dropps her self and me there were no injuries she got a small bit of rope burn but not bad but now she is afraid to belay me and thinks im mad at her but im not so do i try to talk to her about this or just let it go like it never happened
did they run out of pucntuation in colorado?
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vegastradguy
Dec 9, 2004, 6:35 AM
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did they run out of dictionaries in utah? :lol:
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dief
Dec 9, 2004, 6:38 AM
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As the leader you blew it by not making sure your belayer was anchored in since you had 70lbs on her. You cannot violate the laws of physics. Just think of what could have happened if you weren't as high on the route. You could have kicked her teeth out, knocked her out, you get the picture.
Tell her you are a goober and ask for forgiveness. Ask her to belay you (with an anchor) and have a friend stand by for moral support. Take some short falls so she can see how the systems is supposed to work when it is porperly set up.
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vegastradguy
Dec 9, 2004, 6:42 AM
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while the fact that he had 70lbs on her is cause for concern and is definitely something that should have been taken into account for before he left the ground, she still should have never taken her hand off the rope, which is a mistake that requires serious attention.
both parties are at fault, and both need to re-asses their knowledge when it comes to belaying properly.
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far_east_climber
Dec 9, 2004, 9:40 AM
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Like with anything in life... talking is the key. So ask her how she feels about what happened and tell her how you feel... then just let the conversation flow from there. If she is not afraid of the event then everything will be fine.
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mworking
Dec 9, 2004, 1:50 PM
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Many gyms use neither Grigir's or anchors.
Bull, what is your persistence (or desired persistence) with this newb? Wouldn't you be better served with someone closer to your level?
With her, start toproping, with a third watching over till she is very comfortable.
Added: J_ung recommended taking a lead class together. I strongly agree. She may be able to handle criticism of an independent instructor more easily than from you or friends.
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j_ung
Dec 9, 2004, 2:32 PM
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In reply to: My first question is what kind of belay device was she using? Usually in the gym, new climbers are required to use grigris, which in the case of the climber outweighing the belayer should stay locked even if her feet are off the ground.( edited to say--this is no excuse for taking the brake hand off--grigris are for extra safety, not to cover up sloppy and/or irresponsible ropework.)
In this case, it might not have helped. Grabbing the rope above the Gri-gri is one of the best ways to keep it from locking up.
bull, personally, I would never let her belay me again. It's got nothing to do with conscious choice; subconsciously, I would simply never be able to push it with her on the other end of my rope, no matter how hard I try.
But, you're not me, so I'll echo some of the advice already given. Have a sit-down with her. Tell her that you harbor no ill feelings and that you think the two of you can use the experience to build the foundation of an amazing partnership. If your gym has a good instructional program, then enroll in a lead class together. If you've already taken a class, take it again and ask the instructor for advice.
As was said, mistakes were made on both your parts. Pointing this out to her may help her get over her guilt and become a stronger partner in the future.
This is a good thread. Thanks for posting.
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ptone
Dec 9, 2004, 6:28 PM
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True--didn't think of that about the grigri--bad grab (pun with consideration, finding humor helps look at the ugly no?)
I also have to agree about the no-confidence thing--when I was first leading I took a class with a friend, we both got into it, but he was always shakey and after a few times fighting to get slack to clip, I lost it, and couldn't lead with him on the ground.
But top rope, short climbs, I don't know. Maybe it doesn't matter, she may never want to take that kind of responsibility again. Maybe I just hate the thought of one bad experience turning someone away forever.
Then again, one bad experience may be all you get when you're climbing right?
Climbing is totally dangerous, from the moment you make the first move up the wall. Confidence is everything really, remember learning to lead--that climb that seemed like a staircase on top rope suddenly was a climb.
Minus the fall, this thread probably marks that special thing which happens, when someone gets dragged out for the first time and either finds out they've been a climber all along, or should never scale anything that requires their hands to touch as they go....
peace
p
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jt512
Dec 9, 2004, 6:58 PM
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In reply to: I was dropped by my belayer in the gym the other day I'm ok but she is freaked out and I wonder how to help her get over it so we can get back to climbing. the way I fell was i finished the route but didn't have enough hands left to clip the final draw so I dropped I was about 5 feet above the last draw so I took about a 10 foot fall I weigh about 70 lbs more tham my belayer so she came about 10 feet off the floor wich let me fall 10 more feet but i was about 35 feet up to begin with so im still 15 feet off the floor and she gets brain lock and doesent know that she can lower her self so she lets go of the brake hand and grabs the the rope to me with both hands and dropps her self and me there were no injuries she got a small bit of rope burn but not bad but now she is afraid to belay me and thinks im mad at her but im not so do i try to talk to her about this or just let it go like it never happened
I have no idea how to get your partner back, nor why you'd want to after she "got brain lock" and dropped you. My only suggestion is to incorporate the occasional punctuation mark in your writing.
-Jay
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trenchdigger
Dec 9, 2004, 7:18 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I was dropped by my belayer in the gym the other day I'm ok but she is freaked out and I wonder how to help her get over it so we can get back to climbing. the way I fell was i finished the route but didn't have enough hands left to clip the final draw so I dropped I was about 5 feet above the last draw so I took about a 10 foot fall I weigh about 70 lbs more tham my belayer so she came about 10 feet off the floor wich let me fall 10 more feet but i was about 35 feet up to begin with so im still 15 feet off the floor and she gets brain lock and doesent know that she can lower her self so she lets go of the brake hand and grabs the the rope to me with both hands and dropps her self and me there were no injuries she got a small bit of rope burn but not bad but now she is afraid to belay me and thinks im mad at her but im not so do i try to talk to her about this or just let it go like it never happened did they run out of pucntuation in colorado?
Have they abandoned capitalization in Vegas? :wink:
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leinosaur
Dec 9, 2004, 7:34 PM
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In reply to: As the leader you blew it by not making sure your belayer was anchored in since you had 70lbs on her. You cannot violate the laws of physics. Just think of what could have happened if you weren't as high on the route. You could have kicked her teeth out, knocked her out, you get the picture. Tell her you are a goober and ask for forgiveness. Ask her to belay you (with an anchor) and have a friend stand by for moral support. Take some short falls so she can see how the systems is supposed to work when it is porperly set up.
There's a lot in this. We should remember that "leader" is more than an indication of who's on the sharp end . . . anytime you're the one who will take the fall, and especially when climbing with noobs, and especially especially when leading with a noob on belay, the leader needs to make sure he's taking proper precautions for his own and his belayer's safety.
Definitely let her know that you share in the fault for this one. She will understand much better the most important rule, i.e. never let go of the brake end, and you should both review all aspects of belaying safety, TOGETHER.
I've learned the easy way - by noticing mistakes of belayers I had inadequately trained - that belaying is NOT NECESSARILY INTUITIVE. Especially when success is pretty much all-or-nothing, immediately, training should be taken very seriously.
The gym where I climb requires anchors even for top-rope belayers. They don't enforce it much, but each route has an anchor, at least. These are away from the wall where the climber won't likely land on the belayer. Did your gym get a full report & make a record of this incident? I would think gyms should keep track of that sort of thing.
Good luck!
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verticalclimb
Dec 9, 2004, 7:46 PM
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In reply to: As the leader you blew it by not making sure your belayer was anchored in since you had 70lbs on her. You cannot violate the laws of physics. Just think of what could have happened if you weren't as high on the route. You could have kicked her teeth out, knocked her out, you get the picture. Tell her you are a goober and ask for forgiveness. Ask her to belay you (with an anchor) and have a friend stand by for moral support. Take some short falls so she can see how the systems is supposed to work when it is porperly set up.
I have to agree with dief. Your OP makes it sounds like you didn't recognize the mistakes you made as well. You are working as a team and both of you should have understood the weight ratios and known a three foot fall (with so little rope in the system paid out) would probably have pulled her off the ground.
I suggest sitting down with her and discussing what you both need to learn as a team to be a better climbing team. That might also have the benefit of easing her apprehensions because she sees you are willing to work on it as a team.
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davidji
Dec 9, 2004, 8:22 PM
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***deleted***
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