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ecocliffchick
Dec 21, 2004, 3:47 PM
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I just started setting at the gym and I'm interested in learning from climbers what sort of boulder problems they like, just to get some fresh ideas. The gym I set at has a 'boulder night' every week, so I've got to come up with three problems a week. As it is, I only climb in the V0-V4 range, so I typically set the easy problems.
Thus far I've tried to set the problems that I wished for before I was a setter. Things like: (1) an easy problem that topped-out on the free standing boulder (that was typically reserved for only the boulder-princes); (2) a reasonable route that used lots of the 'good' slopers like the Boss and the Beast; (3) an endurance-fest up the overhanging prow...
What are some problems that you would like?
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bonin_in_the_boneyard
Dec 21, 2004, 4:35 PM
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Is your last name really...
Never mind 8^)
Never been to your gym, but mine definitely over-emphasizes body-twisting and throws to crimps. They don't have much that works the upper back and open-body tension. (See Malcom Smith's Pro-Tip.)
But in general, try to come up with problems that work different muscle groups.
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ecocliffchick
Dec 21, 2004, 6:22 PM
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Ever hear of the author Dean Koontz - it's pronounced the same way.
Thanks for your comment about working the different muscle groups. I hadn't thought about that before.
Anyone else have any recommendations?
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granite_grrl
Dec 21, 2004, 6:30 PM
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I like it when problems incorperate somethings that you normally don't see inside, ie - heel/toe hooks, mantles, smearing required, etc. I also like the use of features (I've seen people who get confused by this though, as if features should automatically be off bounds indoors).
Its nice to get variety, big powerful moves, balance moves, something scrunchy, something that requires a lot of flexability. The gym is boring, it's good to have somethign a little different.
Keep 'em on their toes!
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southeast
Dec 21, 2004, 6:32 PM
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Try some problems with hand foot matches that are waist high or higher
or for novelty put up a problem that requires a figure four
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pzack
Dec 21, 2004, 6:41 PM
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1) Problems with really bad feet. Find the slickest footholds, and make people use them delicately. This works especially well in a corner, where the person is trying to stem, and has to apply an exact amount of force to stay on the wall.
2) Problems with committing underclings... a big undercling that you have to step up into... put it high on the wall and make people think about it.
3) Feet to the left, handholds to the right. (and vice versa) make folks fight the swing.
4) Heel Hooks.
5) forcing the climber to pull over a roof with a dyno.
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gunksgoer
Dec 21, 2004, 7:01 PM
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routes with figure fours are my all time favorats, but most of the time it is harder to do the figure four then it is to just climb the route regularly. Good setters know how to force a figure four, or other funky moves such as needing to exit an overhang feet first, and other little things like hidden kneebars, buttscums, etc. Creative abnormal routes are what really pull me in. i also love shouldery moves.
abnormal = interesting
interesting = not bored
and not boring the climbers is what being a good routesetter is all about.
Edit: i like to see things on indoor routes that might actually be found on real rock, totaly rediculous holds etc. seem stupid to me
Also, i like routes that have themes, like font, or granite, schist, or ones with lots of colonets, or all crimpy, all wrinkles, pockets, or other things like that. It is rare outside to find like crimp pocket crystal giant sloper then a knob on one problem. Problems with similair holds are more realistic, and more fun i think.
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johnson6102002
Dec 21, 2004, 7:25 PM
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something that incorporates all kinds of moves and hold types, use of crimps, slopers, jugs, features, underclings, small jibs and a crack if you can work it in too then it makes you need to use all types of skill to complete a problem
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lambone
Dec 21, 2004, 7:49 PM
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most gyms lack enough easy problems, for warming up and for beginners. for that reason alot of begining climbers get turned off from bouldering.
my advice for easier problems would be to try to set a consitant problem, where either every move is a similar difficulty, or the moves get progressively difficult as you go up. however, the hardest move doesn't allway have to be the very last one, most beginners are scared to fall from the top of the bouldering area.
harder problems can be a bit more cruxy.
just avoid trying to make a problem harder by making the holds father apart. reachy problems suck. a good route settter can force technical moves with holds that are close together and make the problems longer. try to eliminate any rest position from the route.
don't grade your own problems, have a few people climb them, men, women, short and tall and see what the rating is.
as far as the setting part, don't spend too much time thinking about making each move perfect. if you take forever working on one move the rest of the problem tends to be an afterthough or rushed. just slap the holds up and try to get a good flow, do the problem a few times and tweak moves that feel weird afterward. sometimes you need to have the whole problem up before you can focus on making each move perfect. Play with angles of holds, sometimes just a short turn of one hold can change a whole problem.
have fun!
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grimpiperx
Dec 21, 2004, 8:13 PM
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I would like to see a really reachy but static move to the worst sloper you can find, and you end up having to use the bolt hole as a mono and then get your other hand on the sloper or the next hold. In general I want to see more reachy pocket moves and monos.
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wingnut
Dec 22, 2004, 7:56 PM
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do something with a dyno, or even better, a double dyno.
__________
I refuse to accept your reality, and substitute my own.
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kingjawsh
Dec 22, 2004, 8:43 PM
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Guelph eh?... u wouldnt happen to set at the grotto?
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jpearl
Dec 23, 2004, 1:11 PM
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Low traverses are always a good idea. Technique is definetely required on low traverses not just with the arms, but also to keep those feet from touching the ground.
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sandbag
Dec 23, 2004, 2:54 PM
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When i was setting routes at a gym years and years ago i made this route called the "Circle of Life" It basically had a lil bit of everything in it, it was on a 33 degree overhanging wall, started low and completed a counter clockwise circle that included greasy foot placements, laybacks, cross throughs, pumping crimpers, juggy rest holds, long and short reaches, a heel hook, and a casual dyno that involved real finesse. It stayed on that wall for about a year, people loved it, other holds were moved and many other routes set around and inside of it, but i apparently hit the nail onthe head with that route. crap, i wish it could have been a cure for cancer or some great endeavor instead of an indoor bouldering route where i tapped the creative waters of human consciousness........ :cry:
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nthusiastj
Dec 23, 2004, 3:19 PM
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Good and memorable problems at the gym for me always force technical moves. If I can pull through something without good technique, it usually fades quickly. However, if I am FORCED to pull a wicked knee drop, or a agressive crossover, it is usually fun and memorable.
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chrisparedes
Dec 23, 2004, 3:57 PM
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I like low underclings where you have to keep your face and hips literaly pressed against the wall and then make a long reach with your right or left hand. I like those cause you can feel every muscle in your torso tensing and flexing to stay close to the wall. Long reaches are always fun, they help you work on your body tension.
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buckyllama
Dec 23, 2004, 4:02 PM
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I like problems that demand diffucult transitions between postions. So a drop-kneed backstepped stem in a corner, twisting into a buttscum on the corner and dyno-swinging to another hold. Each individual position is easy, it's moving between them that is hard.
I also like problems that have unusual solutions, yet still use reasonable holds. So v6 body positions on v1 holds if you will. This pushes beginners to learn technique, and makes excellent warmup problems for the hard (wo)men.
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ecocliffchick
Dec 29, 2004, 6:27 AM
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Thanks for all the suggestions. I am surprised at the number of people who included a forced figure four as a suggestion... they always seemed kind of contrived to me. Anyhow, I'll try to merge some of your offerings into some memorable problems - but the Circle of Life suggestion just seems like too much work for me!
In reply to: Guelph eh?... u wouldnt happen to set at the grotto?
Yep, I'm settin' at the Grotto.
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8flood8
Dec 29, 2004, 8:15 AM
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i have 3 favorite routes that i have set
1) started from a near splits stem, working slopers which were set in counter intuitive directions. also out of the starting stem was a hand-foot match.
2) crux move worked into an overhanging dihedral with an iron cross (no feet move)
3) a knee bar holding you up underneath a roof, with a long reach (forcing you to cut feet after you grab)
edit** typos
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edge
Dec 29, 2004, 4:00 PM
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In reply to: I am surprised at the number of people who included a forced figure four as a suggestion... they always seemed kind of contrived to me.
They are. One person's figure four can be easily campussed by the BMOC. (big man on campus, not an intentional joke, or maybe it was???)
The best boulder problem routes are thought provoking, and not easily read. Try to think of your favorite outside problems. What did you like about them? What did you try before discovering the ideal beta? Use these as a model for your indoor routes.
The absolute worst indoor problems involve long power moves between widely spaced holds. If you are not 6' 4" or boulder V10, then they are impossible. Setting indoor routes, you can actually manipulate who can do the route.
If the short climbers are bitching about problems, set something with a scrunched up sit start, or maybe a traverse with hands and feet close together. Low slopers rule here. Tall climbers will be spit off repeatedly.
Try to add two holds close together, so that you must use them as intentioned or else they will be useless. For example, add a gaston hold with a cross through to an undercling right next to it. If these will later become footholds, position one hold so that it makes you look at your feet before placing it on the one and only beneficial spot.
The bottom line is to look at the wall as a blank canvas, and the holds as paint. You want to make the viewer (climber) feel the same emotions (do the same moves) as you did while setting. Setting for the easier V grades can be more challenginmg than the higher grades, but with practice you will get better. Just use your outdoors experience as a template; no one does it better than Mother Nature.
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joeschmoe
Dec 29, 2004, 4:52 PM
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Lip traverses using slopers or incut crimps. Set it so there's nothing but little jibs on the slope side and all the good stuff is on the lip, it forces heel hooks and makes it interesting.
Set a few using good slopers or good holds, just make the moves themselves tough.
I've gotten pretty burned out on our local gym because there aren't very many low-medium grade boulder problems that are fun. So like others said make 'em fun.
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zackj
Jan 16, 2005, 3:42 PM
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if you want a more difficult problem i would suggest trowing in a dyno...they are tons of fun and they really get you pumped up...but definatley have couple begginer problems to warm up with.
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sierrabc
Feb 5, 2005, 3:17 PM
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Well, if your gym only has problems with big moves, try and set crimpy and technical problems. I set at at a gym one time, and set a crimpy slab. It was a V3 that no one could get up because they just used there strength on everything else.
Sloper problems are good too. They force you to concentrate like crimps.
Happy Sending!
Sierra
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el_caballo
Feb 27, 2005, 8:30 AM
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My favorite bouldering problems require good footwork or inventive body positioning, but still have reasonable holds. A lot of problems rely entirely on tiny crimps or big throws for difficulty. That isn't nearly as much fun -- when I can see right away what the solution is, who cares? Figuring it out is the cool part.
The best problems are the ones where it's possible to finish it in the obvious way by crimping, campusing, or throwing, but where there is a better solution that doesn't involve nearly as much brute strength.
For example: there was a good V3 problem at my local gym on a basically vertical slab. The crux was the last two moves: you were on two small three-finger crimps, one about a foot above and four inches right of the other, both angled about thirty degrees outward. The obvious move was to hold the left-hand crimp and reach up for the last hold, which was up and to the right -- but this put you out from over your feet, and it took really brutal crimp strength. Only a couple people could do it, and most people peeled off and fumed because they couldn't finish the problem.
Turns out the right solution was to reach up for the "wrong" crimper, cross over, and gaston both of them. With your left hand on the other crimper, you easily had enough leverage to reach the final hold, and from there, step up to the top rail. I felt so good when I figured that one out, and three people who were watching me got it for the first time with that little bit of beta.
Other fun things:
1) Problems that require or reward using the wall.
2) Problems that traverse around and don't just go straight up.
3) Heel hooks, crossovers, drop knees -- anything requiring more balance and ingenuity than brute strength.
4) Big ambiguous holds that aren't jugs or worthless slopers -- so you have to figure out how to use them to get where you need to go.
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