Well according to the Chris Cole article in Climbing the guy who started Madrock used to work for 5.10 and stole trade secrets. He then opened up shop in China under the name Madrock. The rubber they use is a little different from 5.10's being that its softer-thus the quicker wearout time. I know Madrock's shoes are cheap, but Stealth is pretty d$@# good rubber, so suck it up and in this case I'm going to say it, "Buy American." Apparently Cole also has something in the works his daughter wants to call Uber Rubber that's even better than Stealth. Just my 2 cents.

In addition to screwing up Charles Cole's name, almost everything else in your post is also wrong.

Curt

Personally I dislike the madrock brand, almost in it's entirety. The gym I work at has exclusively Madrocks, and personally I can't think of a shoe i wouldn't rather wear. Except maybe on a fashion basis. The mad rubber starts out much stiffer than stealth or sportiva, stays that way for an inordinate amount of time, and once the rubbers finally starting to get broken in the rest of the shoe is about to be trash. I'm not so hard up for money that I need to have a pair of shoes that are less than optimal for 90% of their life instead of a pair that dies a bit earlier that was useful almost the whole time.

Hey sorry, it's after 11:00 where I am, I'm tired, and may very well have dreamed that up but I'll check myself.

Maybe I should change the "Buy American" to "don't buy Mad Rocks" to better serve my point. I feel that part of starting your own business is finding something unique that you can offer, not working for a company and then opening up shop using patened stuff you picked at your old job. Maybe I'm just behind the times and ethics are that dead. If you can infringe on patents and copyrights then why bother with R&D. Just let someone else shell out the money while you reap the reward.

Edited for typos

All right Curt, just for you I went and dug out my climbing rag. Take it with a grain of salt if you wish. I realize I typed Chris instead of Charles. But about almost everything else being wrong. December 2004 issue (which by the way got mailed out in like Sept.) of climbing, page 79-80: "Five Ten endured an acrimonious separation when longtime employee Young Chu, a renowned Korean climber who managed the factory that produced Five Ten climbing shoes, quit the company. Shortly after Chu left Five Ten, he opened operations in China and began producing shoes under the name Mad Rock. Neither Cole nor Chu will talk about the contentious split-up, but it was mitigated in court, and rumors of stolen trade secrets and copyright infringement have swirled ever since."

You just admitted in your second post the rubber wears faster than Stealth C4.

And finally Climbing, December 2004, page 77: "'Our test rubbers are significantly beter than anything in production,' he says. He calls the new rubber FX (though his nine-year-old daughter is pulling for Uber Rubber)." Sorry I couldn't remember the FX part when I wrote my original post.

Maybe I should change the "Buy American" to "don't buy Mad Rocks" to better serve my point. I feel that part of starting your own business is finding something unique that you can offer, not working for a company and then opening up shop using patened stuff you picked at your old job. Maybe I'm just behind the times and ethics are that dead. If you can infringe on patents and copyrights then why bother with R&D. Just let someone else shell out the money while you reap the reward.

Edited for typos

The story I got on the trade secrets thing from Bridwell is that Young Chu used to design the shoes for Cole. He used his own foot to create the shape of the shoes. When they split (the story i got was that Young didn't like the way Cole was running things, and thought that they could make shoe more cheaply) Young Chu understandably kept the practice of using his own foot as a model for his shoes. If this is the case (and I have no reason to believe why it would not be) do you think that Young was in the wrong or do you think that Cole should keep the rights to Young's foot shape? I think that this is a similar case to when Don Henley (sp?) was sued by his old record label for sounding too much like himself.

I think that this is a similar case to when Don Henley (sp?) was sued by his old record label for sounding too much like himself.