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rockprodigy
Jul 21, 2003, 1:39 PM
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In reply to: And, so we see, you can't believe everything you read or hear.
This is particularly funny. We're supposed to disregard Smoot, but listen to you??
I suppose you were there, and witnessed this ascent?
Please tell me what motivation Smoot has to lie about this historic climb...that's the only thing I can't figure out. Obviously Skinner would have his reason to stretch the truth (and why not go along with the "Todd Skinner's a liar" hype), but why does Smoot care? Let's hear the conspiracy theory....
I also would think that Yo-yo'ing something like that, where the gear is placed in the jams, and with the rope in the way would make it more difficult, not less.
Of course, we've already established that I'm an idiot.
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hangdogwatchdog
Jul 23, 2003, 12:22 AM
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I have no theories about Jeff's motivation. It could be that Jeff wanted to reinterpret the facts to make the ascent seem more valid, to make his story sound more heroic. It could be as simple as that is just the way he remembers it. All I know is that I witnessed the ascent. What I saw and what Jeff wrote match perfectly, except for the part about placing gear. My friend and I were high school punks at the time....we hopped a bus to Index and camped on a flat boulder in the quarry for a week. Todd was a cool guy....asked us what we were cooking for dinner and other small talk .....just before he climbed it, and we were impressed that anybody could put the moves together since we had both tried to top-rope it.
I have no motivation to revise history. However, having been there to witness such a "historic climb", I think you should hear the facts as they unfolded before my eyes.
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hasbeen
Jul 25, 2003, 7:49 PM
Post #78 of 93
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Well I'll be a fig newton.
hmmm, knowing Todd, I can see how he might exaggerate a yo-yo ascent into a redpoint ascent in such a situation. However, I would bet that he did, at least, place all those pieces on lead during subsequent attempts. Still, this is interesting...
Don't know Smoot, or you, but apparently someone isn't telling the truth. There is a bit in Smoot's story (good nonetheless) where he mentions that Todd fell off and didn't make mention of pulling the rope or gear, perhaps assuming we'd just assume he did. So maybe that's the grey area. However, if he didn't place a single piece on the ascent, well, that would be blatant to leave out. Furthermore, he stated that the climb was very easy (5.11) where Todd moved right. The topo of the second ascent concurs--I think it said 10+. Now, if it's 10+ then skipping it for an on sight 10c mantel would be considered burly. If it's 5.12, that would be another matter entirely.
I guess it all doesn't matter much in the end, because we all know at least what WE did, and have to live with it, but I find it an interesting tale all the same.
Thanks for sharing.
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hangdogwatchdog
Jul 26, 2003, 5:43 AM
Post #79 of 93
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Dear Miss Studette (I was just in your neighborhood!),
I think in a yo-yo ascent, you're allowed to continue from your highest piece. You must lower to the ground or a rest ledge well below the crux and try again. If you then climb all the way to the anchor, without placing a single piece, it's a valid yo-yo ascent. I think that is what I witnessed, although I didn't see how Todd placed the pieces that the rope passed through when he completed his yo-yo ascent. Another thing I remember is that he used chalk to draw horizontal lines across the crack to mark the best jam placements (although I couldn't tell if he' labeled them "right" and "left").
As far as bailing onto Godzilla is concerned, he did this from a point on City Park such that at least 20 feet of hard climbing was avoided. The Godzilla move is not 10c but is commonly thought to be 5.9, and it is lower than the point where most people move out of the Godzilla corner and over to the shared City Park/Godzilla belay. The section of City Park that he did not complete is.....I'm not a 5.12 climber, but I've done plenty of 5.11. I top-roped Equinox in Josh on-sight, and the last 20 feet of City Park is certainly harder than that.
I don't think Todd ever claimed this was a red-point ascent, but Smoot's account leaves the impression that it was. Anyway, this thread brings up interesting questions. Namely, at what point can a "free ascent" be claimed? First top-roped ascent? If so, must it be continuous? First yo-yo ascent? First pink point? Red point? Purple point? Brown point.....wait, that one has already been covered in the mention of first top-rope ascent. First on-sight? First lycra-free ascent? In summary, is City Park still open for a FFA in the most general meaning of the words?
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studs
Nov 18, 2003, 10:23 PM
Post #80 of 93
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Washington climbers werenot TRing City Park free in the 70s.
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crotch
Nov 18, 2003, 11:08 PM
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Add Peachy .13c? (Whitney Portal) to the hard wide-crack list.
In reply to: How come there are no off widths on here? Lucille 13a Trench warfare 12d And Belly Full of Bad Berries is only an easy 13 Are we so blinded numbers on here? |
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wallwombat
Nov 18, 2003, 11:50 PM
Post #82 of 93
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The Great Shark Hunt - 13d- Mount Buffalo Gorge, Australia.
FA- Malcolm Matherson
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studs
Nov 19, 2003, 12:05 AM
Post #83 of 93
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Whats Peachy all about? FA etc.
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dabhaid
Dec 12, 2003, 6:53 PM
Post #84 of 93
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Divided Years, Mourne Mountains Ireland,
climbed by John Dunne:
http://www.mountain-equipment.co.uk/profiles/dunne/
it's rated at E10, which (if the site I went to has done its' conversions correctly) is beyond 5.14d! It's mentioned in a climbing book I have as being possibly the most difficult naturally protected route in the world.
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joshy8200
Dec 12, 2003, 8:18 PM
Post #85 of 93
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Registered: Oct 1, 2002
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No one is talking up to two climbs that Dean Potter put up???
I can see that maybe this crack climbs are not technically as demanding as others, but both of these things are like over 250ft pitches. I also figure that a lot of the hard "trad lines" are done with gear pre-placed. I think Potter only pre-placed one piece of gear (well I think the article said Steph Davis placed it while standing on Potter's shoulders). I think that taking as little gear as possible then running out the sections after the cruxes is just amazing endurance/ability/talent/strenght/focus.
Plus I don't see why everyone is not talking up his free ascents of both El Cap and Half Dome in a day! Is this just too incredible, too insanely driven for us to comprehend. I'm just in awe of Potter's ascents. His style and energy are really inspiring.
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lostinvegas
Dec 12, 2003, 9:08 PM
Post #86 of 93
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A crack line in Korea, FA by You Hyeong Kim in 90s is rated 13d. I don't know the name or exact location, but I think it's in In Su Bong, near Seoul. And I believe it wasn't bolted. Sorry I don't have more detail info.
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arkansasclimber
Dec 12, 2003, 9:52 PM
Post #87 of 93
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Epitaph, Concepcion(potters most recent crazy crack) are crazy. i agree with josh that these climbs may not be insanely burly. They're 230 feet long. They took Dean Potter 2 years and 12 days to do they're probably pretty hard.
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youreup
Dec 12, 2003, 10:12 PM
Post #88 of 93
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I haven't seen Zodiac mentioned yet, I believe 13d was the rating given. Since it's a popular wall route, there is a bunch of "pre-placed" gear that's fixed.
Muir goes at 13+. Lurking Fear goes at 13+ as well though the crux is face/slab climbing.
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rokshoxbkr19
Dec 12, 2003, 11:52 PM
Post #89 of 93
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Anyone who knows me knows I have to mention Zion at least once every post, so here it is. I am not sure of the names, but I know there are some insance 5.13 or even .14 routes up there, anyone know names, I think monkeyfinger has some crazy stuff.
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hema
Dec 13, 2003, 8:31 PM
Post #90 of 93
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For the old continent a really top contender might bi Didier Berthod's Greenspit in the Valle dell'Orco, Italy. The route is and old bolted project, but Didier chopped the bolts and did the FA with prepalced gear. He graded the route F8B+ (5.14a), but stated that as crack-climbing is not that much practiced here in Europe the grade might be as hard as 9a (14d).
For more info on the climb have a look at: http://www.planetmountain.com/english/News/index.html?-database=newseng&-layout=scheda&-response=Detail.html&-recordID=33413&-search
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ouflyboy9
Dec 13, 2003, 9:25 PM
Post #91 of 93
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welcome to ole kaintuck...13c i believe, in Red River Gorge
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amygdala
Dec 13, 2003, 9:33 PM
Post #92 of 93
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In reply to: John Dunne has two routes rated 5.14. One is up some gulley in the Lake District with a 2 hour approach. The other is way out there in, like, northern Scottland with an insane approach. I forget a exactly. It's suppose to have protected 5.14 but a death fall off of 5.12 on a 160' pitch. There must be some info around somewhere.
The 1995 John Dunne route is "Divided Years E10 7a" (possibly 8a+/8b with big fall potential, which Dunne tested) in the Mourne Mountains in Ireland - unrepeated to date, but rumour has it Neil Gresham of second ascent of Equilibrium fame, and Simon Moore, Ireland's own, but Sheffield based, are both considering the second ascent. As usual with Dunne's routes, everyone rubbishes them as overgraded, but they take ages to get repeats, and whether or not this route is E10, it was almost certainly the hardest trad route around in the British Isles at the time...I guess people just csn't believe a big guy like Dunne can climb that hard. His routes Parthian Shot, Breathless in the lakes, and others, deserve a mention too...
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rokshoxbkr19
Dec 13, 2003, 11:31 PM
Post #93 of 93
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I know the T Wall has 5.13 trad leads, Grand Contusion is 5.13b/c I believe and there are harder routes, I also read in Climbing last year about this kid who was climbing a sport route 5.14 a or b and people said they bet he couldn't trad lead it and then he did. It was his first lead I believe and it mentioned how he had to borrow all this micro gear anyone know what I am talking about.
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