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nomadder69
Jul 28, 2006, 5:04 AM
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Ok hear goes dont know if this should go in the gear head or accident and injury thread. In December of this year I had to have amputations of the big toes on both the right and left foot , also have nuropathy in both feet due to Diabetes. My Question is this are there any other climbers who have had this or similar problems, and what if any brand or style of rock climbing shoe have they found that works best for them ie. good fit, less pain and or any other info. on this subject. I currently own the Montrail Orbit shoes.
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tattooed_climber
Jul 28, 2006, 5:40 AM
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Afew times, I've climbed with a dude (ex-mountain guide from the states) who lost 2-3 toes due to frost bite....i asked him about it....he has no problem with mountaineering boots....but he really liked his mythos (la sportiva).....he has the same foot size (or as close as possible) as me, and he tried on my katana's (once again, la sportive) and thought they were ok....one of the toes he lost was his big toe, he said it is a big problem, because its a power toe, lots of strength comes from it, so its all in his technique to make up for it....i ask about stuffing or anything to try and fill the void, but he said it was more of a pain in the ass than help
stiff shoes is all i can say
hopefully some other people come on and give some advice...
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nomadder69
Jul 28, 2006, 5:14 PM
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Thanks for the info. I to have found not having my big toes a real pain climbing and extreamly sore after climbing even short routes. But am going to check out the mythos for a fit .
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tattooed_climber
Jul 28, 2006, 5:26 PM
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the mythos are a rather stiff trad shoe....so the hard board may help to compensate.....but, like with all shoes, fit matters....so if they fit your foot regardless of afew less toes, then its not worth a shitty fit to help with your situation
la sportiva shoes also tend to be narrow (which is good for me, i have a narrow foot)
ALSO, acopa do custom orders (mix-match sizes, left and right shoes and different sizes and i think other custom fits...)....shooting them an email maybe worth it.....also, another option would be taken a shoe to a Cobbler and seeing what he/she can do with it...
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trenchdigger
Jul 28, 2006, 5:31 PM
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[quote="tattooed_climber"]the mythos are a rather stiff trad shoe...In reply to: Mythos stiff??? Mythos are about the softest shoe around. If you want stiff from Sportiva, try the Mega or Tradmaster. A couple of other stiff options are the Boreal Ace and Red Chili Sausalito.
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tattooed_climber
Jul 28, 2006, 5:38 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: the mythos are a rather stiff trad shoe... Mythos stiff??? Mythos are about the softest shoe around. If you want stiff from Sportiva, try the Mega or Tradmaster. A couple of other stiff options are the Boreal Ace and Red Chili Sausalito.
i climb with megas..OK, mythos ain't no high-top (in terms of stiffness) but i think they are stiff compared to a slipper or velcro).....but hey, my buddy (lost some toes buddy) likes them...MEGAs are rare to find (been discountinued years ago)but you maybe able to special order them somewhere off the net......FIVETEN also now have their own High-top out (my crusty old-skool friend thinks they're crap though)
tradmaster? never tried them.....i only wear la sportiva, so i have no idea aboot other shoes...
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maldaly
Jul 28, 2006, 5:41 PM
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nomadder69,
Sorry to hear about your toes. I'm a RBK amputee and still climb tons. See my photos under my profile. What you don't see is what's up with my left. Due to the frostbite, my left foor is trashed as well. I lost the fat pads, all elasticity in the plantar fascia and metatarsal tendons. The trans metatarsal tendon has tightened up and has lost its elasticity as well. The frostbite also took the last joint of my first and second toes and the first toe/metatarsal joint is fused. In other words, my left foot is FUBAR. It hurts all the time and I can't even stand barefoot on a smooth hard surface. If I try to flex the toes as in walking it makes me scream and I can't even think about stuffing one in a climbing shoe.
So here's what I do that lets me climb:
1) I got a custom made climbing shoe that is sized for a loose but conforming fit. It's a stiff, board lasted shoe.
2) I found a carbon fiber sole plate and ground it to fit inside.
3) I put in a Spenco or Gel sock liner on top of that.
4) I have a mineral-oil gel toe sock that slips over my toes before I put my foot into the shoe.
It's clubby and stiff as hell but in three years of climbing with the rig I haven't fallen because of my foot. PM me if you want more info.
Mal
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psprings
Jul 28, 2006, 7:01 PM
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Hey there,
I can't really contribute in the sense of having had the problem that you describe, BUT... I work in prosthetics and have seem many partial foot amputations, many BK (below the knee) amputations, and lots of weird congenital partially formed feet. We do a lot of work looking at gait and getting people to walk as normally as possible.
That being said, what we usually do for a toe amputation is not much. Sometimes if it's all the toes, then we do a toe-filler. However, in your case, you sound like you're very active. You would probably benefit from many of the things that Malday describe. Oftentimes a carbon fiber toe-plate (available from Springlite which is now owned by Ottobock) will give you the leverage that you are missing from your toe. If you REALLY want to get the leverage out of that footplate, you really need to have it mounted to a gauntlet type socket that goes up to around your ankle so that it holds on when you're stepping off your toe. This is all in terms of walking of course, but it'd apply to climbing as well. It'd probably be hard to fit all of that in your shoe, though.
One thing that could be done that might be easier would be to have a full length spring steel shank added to your climbing shoe. You'd have to have the shoe sole stripped off and then have it put back on after the shank is added, but it would minimize what's actually in your shoe.
With Diabetes being the cause of your amputation, you might not need the silicone socks (made by Silipos) that Malday is talking about, but they could be helpful if you have pain issues.
Either way, I would highly recommend finding a good CPO (certified Prosthetist Orthotist). Many are not accredited. If you get help from one, make sure they are ABC (American Board Certified) trained. It means they've gone to more schooling. Of course, even some of us aren't that great. Find someone that is really willing to listen to what you want and don't settle for crappy quality work, both for a modified climbing shoe or a prosthesis, or foot orthotics (medicare covers 3 pairs of custom foot othotics/year, fyi), or whatever it is.
That being said, if you're just going for the shank in the shoe, it may be cheaper to go to a custom shoe shop.
And if anyone wants to learn more about the prosthetic field (you get to work with patients, plaster, plastic, metal, fabric, resin... highly mechanical field with very functional outcomes) I'd recommend checking out the ABC website. You can find info on the field and providers there. www.abcop.org
ps- as a climber, I love this field because you get so much cool hands on, plus it's very diverse... everything is custom.
Hope some of that was helpful and not too rambly... not too many posts relate to this stuff, so I sorta had to unload :P
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drrock
Jul 28, 2006, 7:30 PM
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Was your amputation for infection or lack of blood flow/gangrene (ie. due to diabetes or unrelated, like from frostbite)? Do you have sensation in your foot? You should follow psprings advice and get a properly fitted, stiff shoe, and consider wearing socks, I don't know much about the types of socks that maldaly mentions, but they sounds like they would be good to protect your toes. This is especially important if you can't feel your feet, as climbing shoes can wreak havok on the feet and the last thing you want is an infected sore from your ill-fitting climbing shoes that you didn't know about since you couldn't feel it, which might lead to further amputations. Good luck.
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climbinginchico
Jul 28, 2006, 9:01 PM
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If you do decide to try and get some custom shoes made, contact Evolv. They might be able to add a super stiff steel or carbon shank to the shoe to make up for the loss of the big toe.
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lunabruandabby
Jul 28, 2006, 10:24 PM
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I think the key might be finding a shoe whose laces extend nearly all the way to the big toe. (Mythos' laces go pretty far) All in all Sportiva makes the highest quality shoe. (Too bad Kaukulaters aren't around anymore.) And definitely board lasted with at least 5 mm's of rubber. A slingshot rand would really jam your remaining toes to the front of the shoe and leave your heel swimming.
Good Luck,
Justin
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chouca
Jul 28, 2006, 10:49 PM
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Here's an idea. An inner boot/outer boot rock shoe system might work, kind of like what you would find in high altitude footwear.
Create a custom made inner boot that offers comfort for the skin conditions that arise, compensates for the lack of digits, provides internal cushioning as well as an external framework that would match up with the shape and size of the pre-amputation foot.
The outer boot could be pure rock shoe upper and rubber, IE; little support, because that would come from the exoskeleton of the inner-shoe. You could have several inner-boots, like one for edging, cracks, steeps, etc. The outer boot could be something like the old Boreal Laser, very soft and form fitting. It may be a kind of clunky system, but it could be custom made, so you could ratchet the inner boot and or outer boot super-tight to compensate, kind of like my Lowa double boots.
I am not a professional in the field of orthopedics, just an idea man. If this concept has has any merit, present it to the specialists in the field, and see what they think.
Keep cranking,
Marc B.
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