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RiverRatMatt
Jul 1, 2010, 5:43 PM
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Opinions on them? They seem like they're more versatile than nuts, maybe not quite as versatile as hexes. I'm just starting to build my trad rack and want to get the best bang for my buck.
Local geography would probably be good to include - I live in Boise, Idaho, so far around there's where I've been climbing but I'm itching to get into the Sawtooth Mountains
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rtwilli4
Jul 1, 2010, 5:54 PM
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If you are asking if you should get tricams INSTEAD of nuts, then you haven't climbed enough to buy anything. Climb with some friends in your local area, see what they use. Guaranteed you'll not see anyone w/o a set of traditional stoppers.
Never climbed in Idaho but tricams are a staple of any east coasters rack. We have a lot of horizontal placements, and this is where tricams excel.
You can also place them vertically, but you need some features inside the crack to make it a good placement. They are not the easiest pieces to place, nor to clean, but they are bomber once you learn how to use them.
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shoo
Jul 1, 2010, 6:06 PM
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RiverRatMatt wrote: Opinions on them? They seem like they're more versatile than nuts, maybe not quite as versatile as hexes. I'm just starting to build my trad rack and want to get the best bang for my buck. Local geography would probably be good to include - I live in Boise, Idaho, so far around there's where I've been climbing but I'm itching to get into the Sawtooth Mountains
You really shouldn't consider nuts, hexes, and tricams to be interchangeable. They are certainly comparable, but you don't typically choose one instead of another.
Instead, you should be evaluating what kind of protection work best for the kind of climbing you do. Nuts are essential for pretty much everyone's rack. I would NEVER consider a set of tricams or hexes as a replacement for nuts; they just don't do the same things.
As for tricams themselves, they are specialty pieces that are well suited to areas which have a lot of horizontal and/or pod-like features. The classic example of this is the rock at the Gunks. They can be a horrendous PITA to place, and even worse to clean. It takes some practice and a lot of fiddling, However, there are situations in which nothing else would work, especially in really irregular and bizarre formations.
Most people consider the pink one to be the most useful size, followed by the red. There is a new smaller one (black) which may turn out to be really handy, but time will tell.
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shoo
Jul 1, 2010, 6:29 PM
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rtwilli4 wrote: If you are asking if you should get tricams INSTEAD of nuts, then you haven't climbed enough to buy anything.
Quoted for truth.
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RiverRatMatt
Jul 1, 2010, 6:33 PM
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rtwilli4 wrote: If you are asking if you should get tricams INSTEAD of nuts, then you haven't climbed enough to buy anything. Climb with some friends in your local area, see what they use. Guaranteed you'll not see anyone w/o a set of traditional stoppers.
Will definitely be getting both, I'm wondering which would be the better to get first. I agree though, trad's a bit above my head at the moment :p
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moose_droppings
Jul 1, 2010, 6:39 PM
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RiverRatMatt wrote: rtwilli4 wrote: If you are asking if you should get tricams INSTEAD of nuts, then you haven't climbed enough to buy anything. Climb with some friends in your local area, see what they use. Guaranteed you'll not see anyone w/o a set of traditional stoppers. Will definitely be getting both, I'm wondering which would be the better to get first. I agree though, trad's a bit above my head at the moment :p
Go nuts.
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bill413
Jul 1, 2010, 6:47 PM
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Nuts first.
(Sane ones next?)
I'd more regard hexes as "interchangeable" with larger nuts, although I no longer use hexes.
Definitely look at what other people in your area have on their racks, and discuss the choices with them.
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RiverRatMatt
Jul 1, 2010, 6:55 PM
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bill413 wrote: Nuts first. (Sane ones next?) I'd more regard hexes as "interchangeable" with larger nuts, although I no longer use hexes. Definitely look at what other people in your area have on their racks, and discuss the choices with them.
Why not use hexes anymore?
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bill413
Jul 1, 2010, 7:16 PM
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RiverRatMatt wrote: bill413 wrote: Nuts first. (Sane ones next?) I'd more regard hexes as "interchangeable" with larger nuts, although I no longer use hexes. Definitely look at what other people in your area have on their racks, and discuss the choices with them. Why not use hexes anymore?
As my rack grew, I had stoppers, hexes, tricams, cams...it was too much. I felt that for the climbing I was doing that the other pieces would make a complete rack and, as my girlfriend was starting to lead, she could use the full set of hexes.
Basically, it was a decision as to what items were most useful to the way I was climbing.
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Jnclk
Jul 1, 2010, 7:25 PM
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RiverRatMatt wrote: bill413 wrote: Nuts first. (Sane ones next?) I'd more regard hexes as "interchangeable" with larger nuts, although I no longer use hexes. Definitely look at what other people in your area have on their racks, and discuss the choices with them. Why not use hexes anymore?
Skip the hexes, save your money for a set of cams. They are 'fiddle-y' to place, take up a lot of room, and make you sound like a wandering cow.
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mrtristan
Jul 2, 2010, 12:09 AM
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I don't like Tricams. I've got the seven smallest sizes (not including the two newer ultra small ones) and have placed them a lot in quartzite, granite, and sandstone. In leading hundreds and hundreds of trad pitches, I don't think I've ever come across a placement that would ONLY take Tricams. Now that I've got a bunch of cams, I never take them with me any more.
Having said that, everyone seems to have their own trad placement style. Some people just love Tricams and feel like there are tons of places where only Tricams would work. Shrug. Your mileage may vary.
At one point I also had a set of hexes, but I sold them. Sure, there are some larger tapered cracks that would take hexes well, but usually just above or below that taper I can get in a nut or cam... I've never said to myself, "Man, I wish I had that fist-sized hex right now!"
My advice: Save your money, don't get Tricams or hexes, and get cams. Get a set of nuts, too.
And this is kind of a side note... But is it just me, or does it seem like people on the east coast like Tricams a lot more than people in the west?
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clc
Jul 2, 2010, 12:21 AM
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99% of the time cams and nuts are all you need. don't bother with tri-cams or hexes. Though I do leave hexes for raps in the alpine.
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adatesman
Jul 2, 2010, 12:30 AM
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tradmanclimbs
Jul 2, 2010, 1:38 AM
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Most of the tricams and nearly all of the hexes you will see out in the real climbing world are on the newbs rack. When you are at cathedral and you hear the cowbells coming you pretty much know for certain they are headed for thin air or funhouse. Skip the hexes completly. I sometimes carry one big hex on real big climbs but mostly to use as a hammer.
The small trucams can be usefull but anything bigger than red is extra weight and hassel. Most of the folks climbing hard trad use wired stoppers and cams. YMMV
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reno
Jul 2, 2010, 1:51 AM
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shoo wrote: You really shouldn't consider nuts, hexes, and tricams to be interchangeable. They are certainly comparable, but you don't typically choose one instead of another.
That.
In reply to: Instead, you should be evaluating what kind of protection work best for the kind of climbing you do.
That, too.
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Tipton
Jul 2, 2010, 11:59 AM
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mrtristan wrote: And this is kind of a side note... But is it just me, or does it seem like people on the east coast like Tricams a lot more than people in the west?
This is almost entirely because of North Carolina. There are many placements on NC slab that take tri-cams much better than regular cams, and won't take stoppers at all. Trust me, when you're 25 feet up from your last piece, and it's sketchy, you will be happy to get have tri-cams.
Two scenarios I've encountered:
1) Horizontal placement that is very flared, with the exception of a small section that's parallel. You can't get a good cam because the parallel section is too narrow so you whip out the tri-cams.
2) Small horizontal placement that narrows rapidly. You can either place a tipped out cam because the appropriate size is too wide, or you can place a tri-cam.
Ultimately, it really depends on where you climb. I rarely carry them when I'm climbing in Tennessee, but always carry them when I'm in North Carolina. Your mileage may vary, but there's a reason East Coasters swear by them.
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tradmanclimbs
Jul 2, 2010, 12:16 PM
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Heard that bunk in the gunks and NC and both places take cams just fine. There are ocasionaly placements that tricam will work better than anything else but that is not the norm and not enough reason to build a rack arround tricams. they are expensive and not as eficiant as cams in most situations.
Again. it is a stone cold fact that the harder you lead the fewer tricams and hexes will be found on your rack. there is a good reason for this.
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rangerrob
Jul 2, 2010, 12:39 PM
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Vermont guy may be partially correct. I don't lead very hard, and I do find myself placing tri-cams less and less on the harder pitches. Mostly because they generally take two hands to place well, and hands are kind of at a premium above 5.10. All that being said, the pink and red tri-cams are indispensible on a trad rack in the Northeast...Gunks in particular. They get placed at stances where I would otherwise have to burn a green, yellow, red sized alien. Also saving them for the belay means saving key pieces for the next pitch.
It's true about the clanging cow bells. Pretty much automatically means a beginner is approaching, or a grizzled old veteran. But I also saw someone show up to the cliff with nothing but a rack of shiny new cams. That was just a RICH beginner. I see someone who never carries a couple of tri-cams as probably not having a lot of climbing miles under their feet.
RR
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acorneau
Jul 2, 2010, 2:19 PM
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I also carry the standard "pink, red, brown, purple" set and I'll be picking up the smaller black one before my next trip out.
A few of us also carry the larger #5, 6 and 7 to fill out or supplement the large end of things. The 5, 6, and 7 cover 2.25" to 5.5", weigh a total of 584g (20.6oz) and cost ~$160. The comparable C4 set (3, 4, 5) would weigh 870g (30.7oz) and cost ~$265.
Just like the small sizes, some people like them and some don't. Yes, you sound like a cow but I'd rather sound like a cow than weigh as much as one!
(This post was edited by acorneau on Jul 2, 2010, 2:24 PM)
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sethg
Jul 2, 2010, 3:18 PM
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Tricams are great in horizontals, and in verticals too so long as you place 'em right.
If I had to choose to carry only a tricam or an SLCD of the same range, I would pick the SLCD. So if that is the question, I guess when building my rack I would buy cams first.
But tricams are great pieces to carry in addition to cams of the same size-- they'll give you effective doubles for those pieces and will be cheaper and lighter than the cams you'd want to buy instead, and will sometimes give you the right fit where the same size cam will not.
And as Rob said, they're great pieces to save for the anchor. I also like to place them in a low horizontal as my first multi-directional piece on a pitch, to protect against the zipper and guard against a factor 2 on the anchor.
Think about it, you've just begun the pitch and you're not sure what you'll need ahead, so you want to keep all your cams. You don't really need pro for the next few moves but you want to place a multidirectional piece right away to protect the anchor-- the tricam is PERFECT for this situation.
I carry black, pink, two reds and a brown.
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Tipton
Jul 2, 2010, 4:58 PM
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tradmanclimbs wrote: Heard that bunk in the gunks and NC and both places take cams just fine. There are ocasionaly placements that tricam will work better than anything else but that is not the norm and not enough reason to build a rack arround tricams. they are expensive and not as eficiant as cams in most situations. Again. it is a stone cold fact that the harder you lead the fewer tricams and hexes will be found on your rack. there is a good reason for this.
I think you're being a little unrealistic. The "stone cold fact" is that cams and tri-cams work in different placements. Would a 5.12 climber leave the tri-cams on the ground if they knew they were the only placement before the crux? I think not.
First, I've never seen anyone climb 5.12 slab in NC. Probably because it's hard, freaking scary, and borderline suicidal. But I guarantee you, that if they were, they would take every piece of gear that might have a snowball's chance in hell of getting placed.
I'm not telling the OP to buy tri-cams, I'm just providing my insight on the usefulness of tri-cams in certain areas. Again, I never carry them in Tennessee (because cams are faster) but I always carry them in NC (because tri-cams work better).
You're right about being fiddly. They are harder to place than cams, no doubt. But guess what, in NC where they are on nearly every person's rack (in doubles no less) you can almost always use two hands to place them! It's slab! I've never once physically pumped out on it (gone brain dead from fear maybe...).
And lastly, in what way are tri-cams expensive? What does that make cams, because they definitely aren't cheap!
OP: I can't stress this enough, buy what works in your area.
PS: I don't like tri-cams, but I would cry like a baby if I had to settle for a crappy cam placement because I wanted to be like the 5.12 climbers and left them on the ground.
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kennoyce
Jul 2, 2010, 5:21 PM
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As has been said, you live out west so skip the tricams. You need to start your rack with a set of nuts, and then get the sizes of cams that you seem to always need. There is absolutly no need to waste your money on hexes.
I'm not trying to bash tricams, they do have their place, but there just aren't many places out west where a tricam will work any better than a cam, and at least 99.9% of the time, the cam will work better out here.
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billcoe_
Jul 2, 2010, 6:29 PM
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RiverRatMatt wrote: Opinions on them? They seem like they're more versatile than nuts, maybe not quite as versatile as hexes. I'm just starting to build my trad rack and want to get the best bang for my buck. Local geography would probably be good to include - I live in Boise, Idaho, so far around there's where I've been climbing but I'm itching to get into the Sawtooth Mountains
You haven't gotten the real answer yet so here it is. Tricams are AREA DEPENDENT. You need to ask people who have been climbing where you want to use these what they are using. In some areas they are as worthless as tits on a Boar, and in some they are the Bees knees. I suspect that they would be a waste of time for you, but it's really for locals there to say. Not a bunch of us internet wankers 5 states over who can't even spell I da hoe.
I'd pass on them until you know for sure.
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RiverRatMatt
Jul 2, 2010, 8:04 PM
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billcoe_ wrote: RiverRatMatt wrote: Opinions on them? They seem like they're more versatile than nuts, maybe not quite as versatile as hexes. I'm just starting to build my trad rack and want to get the best bang for my buck. Local geography would probably be good to include - I live in Boise, Idaho, so far around there's where I've been climbing but I'm itching to get into the Sawtooth Mountains You haven't gotten the real answer yet so here it is. Tricams are AREA DEPENDENT. You need to ask people who have been climbing where you want to use these what they are using. In some areas they are as worthless as tits on a Boar, and in some they are the Bees knees. I suspect that they would be a waste of time for you, but it's really for locals there to say. Not a bunch of us internet wankers 5 states over who can't even spell I da hoe. I'd pass on them until you know for sure.
Good points! I will definitely keep that in mind, I'll be starting with nuts and then when I can afford cams, I'll start getting those.
Odd that most people on this forum seem to be easterners, maybe most westerners just dont have 'puters! 
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bill413
Jul 2, 2010, 9:34 PM
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RiverRatMatt wrote: billcoe_ wrote: RiverRatMatt wrote: Opinions on them? They seem like they're more versatile than nuts, maybe not quite as versatile as hexes. I'm just starting to build my trad rack and want to get the best bang for my buck. Local geography would probably be good to include - I live in Boise, Idaho, so far around there's where I've been climbing but I'm itching to get into the Sawtooth Mountains You haven't gotten the real answer yet so here it is. Tricams are AREA DEPENDENT. You need to ask people who have been climbing where you want to use these what they are using. In some areas they are as worthless as tits on a Boar, and in some they are the Bees knees. I suspect that they would be a waste of time for you, but it's really for locals there to say. Not a bunch of us internet wankers 5 states over who can't even spell I da hoe. I'd pass on them until you know for sure. Good points! I will definitely keep that in mind, I'll be starting with nuts and then when I can afford cams, I'll start getting those. Odd that most people on this forum seem to be easterners, maybe most westerners just dont have 'puters!
The westerners are still trying to figure out what tricams are and how to work them.
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