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Re: [rgold] Pulled off belay stance:
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cracklover
Jun 17, 2010, 6:16 PM
Views: 2022
Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10162
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rgold wrote: I too suspect that a figure-eight with barrel knot backup won't roll. And the double bowline/yosemite finish/barrel knot combination does not "unravel" after a twelve pitches of climbing, much less six, in my pretty lengthy experience. The point being that the dreaded "ring loading" effect probably only applies to knots that haven't been tied with appropriate backups, which means it needn't be a consideration at all.
At no time did I suggest that *your* method of tying in was suspect.
But I strongly disagree that ring loading "needen't be a consideration at all" for climbers tying in with a safe knot and a safe backup, if they clip the belay device to the tie-in bight only.
One of the most common methods of tying in is to use a fig-8 follow-through knot with a double-fisherman (barrel knot) backup. The backup knot often falls apart after a few pitches.
I also have met people who do not use a backup on their fig-8 at all. And for most cases, I would not say this is a particularly dangerous practice, since in a worst-case scenario, the rope can come out of even the last bend in the knot, and still safely catch a fall.
I have yet to climb with anyone who ties in with a single bowline with a double-fisherman backup, but I'm sure such people exist. And while that is a reasonably acceptable practice, it would make a very dangerous potential scenario in combination with your lead belaying method, since unloaded half double-fishermans (barrel knots) will come out on their own, and the single bowline is extremely susceptible to ring-loading.
Nothing against your method - just that it requires some attention to the method of tying in, {edited to add}at least if being used for lead belaying.{/edit}
GO
(This post was edited by cracklover on Jun 17, 2010, 6:23 PM)
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Edit Log:
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Post edited by cracklover
() on Jun 17, 2010, 6:18 PM
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Post edited by cracklover
() on Jun 17, 2010, 6:19 PM
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Post edited by cracklover
() on Jun 17, 2010, 6:20 PM
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Post edited by cracklover
() on Jun 17, 2010, 6:23 PM
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