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Re: [rescueman] Help Convert Me! :
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healyje
Jul 12, 2011, 7:16 PM
Views: 5337
Registered: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 4204
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rescueman wrote: healyje wrote: rescueman wrote: The goal of trad climbing is to NOT fall, so practice that discipline. And to be honest I couldn't disagree more... It's the discipline I learned and nurtured from trad climbing long before I got involved in caving and rescue. And it's the discipline that has been central to alpine climbing since time immemorial.
Again, "the leader must not fall" it's a horribly unfortunate meme that somehow survived in rock climbing far past it's utility. And alpine climbing isn't rock [trad] climbing - it's alpine climbing. Not falling in rock climbing is a highly counterproductive and limiting anti-discipline as far as I'm concerned.
rescueman wrote: Traditional climbing, like life itself, is a matter of learning to understand and live humbly within one's inherent limits - and to know when one is about to exceed them and then wisely back off.
Again, I couldn't possibly or more fundamentally disagree with this statement. In fact, if that were what trad climbing was 'about', or a 'goal' of it, then I would have quit climbing decades ago.
rescueman wrote: Call it "tripe" if you're unable to understand this spiritual discipline. But believing that we can exceed our natural limitations by "better" technology is exactly why the human race is on the brink of global collapse and possible extinction. The ancient Greeks understood that all human tragedy is rooted in hubris.
And I would say that if you've been leading for twenty years and never taken a leader fall then you entirely lack the experience to speak objectively on the matter. And to be exceptionally clear, 'technology' has little to nothing about it. We were pushing and expanding our limits leading on goldline with nothing more than a set of hexs and nuts - and taking solid falls doing it the entire time.
That is how one exceeds one's [current] limits - by learning progressively better physical, emotional, and risk management skills so that you can step out onto harder and harder challenges - often times challenges beyond your current limits. And when you do that, sometimes you fail - if you're pushing your limits a lot you fail and fall, but not always and you'll advance on those gains.
Respond however you will, but I'm here to tell you you chose a exceptionally conservative path in your rock climbing and that has left you entirely bereft of the experience necessary to either state what the 'goal' of 'traditional' climbing is or to have a deep understanding that 'traditional' climbing has advanced by constantly 'surfing' challenges out beyond the edge of certainty and our current limits.
You sum up your own lack of experience best with this quote:
rescueman wrote: Sport climbing, however, is a completely different beast. As a sport, the goal is to constantly test one's limits and try to exceed them.
Sport climbing simply stripped off the technical and emotional challenges leaving the the above-stated 'goal' which has always been at the heart of trad climbing. "Constantly testing one's limits and trying to exceed them" while placing highly technical pro and managing your fear is what has always defined the cutting edge of trad climbing and always will.
I'm glad you found a repose with trad climbing that works for you, but given your choices I'd suggest refraining from attempting to project that experience as what trad climbing has been, is, or should be for others.
(This post was edited by healyje on Jul 12, 2011, 8:02 PM)
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Edit Log:
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Post edited by healyje
() on Jul 12, 2011, 7:24 PM
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Post edited by healyje
() on Jul 12, 2011, 7:26 PM
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Post edited by healyje
() on Jul 12, 2011, 8:02 PM
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