USnavy wrote:
splish wrote:
granite_grrl wrote:
splish wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
splish wrote:
rocknice2 wrote:
OMG this thread is crazy.
Splish, I'm sure you have plenty of experience at drilling anchors and can do an exceptional job but ANY 18v drill just plain sucks at drilling into rock, unless it's very soft. 18v is ok when drilling into a basement's cement wall.
Everyone uses 24v or 36v to drill holes into rock.
edit: or gas power
Well, if you knew anything about drills, the volts has nothing to with the actual power of the drill, it's the amount of amperage it draws. The higher the amps, the more power. Voltage refers to the speed at which the electricity travels at, Amps is the actual power, and watt is a measurement of consumption.
The beauty behind the rigid drills is that even though they are only 18V, they are 2.5Ah, much more powerful than most 18V drills.
When you have actually used one, let me know.
I did not say that it is more powerful than a gas powered, I said I have never used a gas powered, and the little bolting I have ever done has been done with my 18V Rigid drill.
Why everyone is getting upset, I have no idea, who the hell cares what drill was used, just climb and be glad someone put the bolts in!
not to disrespect you but if you have little real world (real rock)bolting experience and do not know much about powerful drills then, what is the point of educating climbers here ?
not to mentioned that some climbers placed more bolts than number of hairs on your head
Who said I was trying to educate. I was simply stating my experience with an alternate tool. I never once said, "this is what you should do".
I know when it comes to bolting I don't have any substantial experience.
I also know that it is not necessary for everyone to own a monster of a hammer drill.
Not everyone is a weekend warrior out bolting 20 routes every weekend. So my experience may be helpful to the guys like me who just have to do minor maintainence from time to time.
I thought these forums were for all rock climbers, not just for the elite. I guess I was mistaken, sorry!
Sorry, but I don't want joe blow running out and buying a hammer drill thinking they're going to "help" the community. I've seen a lot of botched bolting jobs and poorly placed hardware out there.
If you are inexperienced I would rather have the bolting left to someone else.
And I completely agree with that. Except just because someone doesn't have a lot of experience bolting for climbing, doesn't mean they don't know how to use a drill and correctly set an anchor.
The first climbers who set anchors, learned it from the construction industry. There is no school that teaches "drilling rock and bolting for climbers 101".
And quite frankly, it is not rocket science.
If you buy a 3/8" x 3" bolt, then you drill a 3/8" hole, 3 inches deep. You tap the bolt in to depth, and you torque the bolt to 25 ftlbs. So unless the guy is trying to chisel out the hole by hand with a concrete chisel, I think you will be perfectly safe.
Even if you tried to wiggle the drill around to purposely mess up the hole, the anchor only contacts the walls of the hole in the last 1/2" of the hole where the expansion collar is. You can't mess the hole up back there because the drill bit would break at that point. It's a 3/8" or 12mm bit, they break fairly easily.
. Sure, the act of placing a bolt in solid contiguous rock is a
no brainer, but it is
not that simple. I have
spent entire days bolting a single route before because I wanted it
to be perfect. When bolting routes you have to examine the rock, and if the rock you are bolting is highly fragmented, such as basalt, this is a
pretty critical and advanced job. Then you have to take into account clipping stances. If you make someone clip through a
5.12 move, you could add a letter grade to the difficulty, or you could significantly increase their risk of
blowing the clip and decking. Then you have to take into account bolt spacing, when to run it out, when to keep it tight, ect. After that you have to account for flakes, aretes, and
sharp rock. You have to examine where the lead rope is running and determine if it is going to cross over an area where the climber's feet need to go, putting them at risk of getting
caught in the rope in a fall. You also have to take into account rope drag, and all of that stuff is only relative to bolt placements.
You also have to determine the
best type of anchor for use in your application. If you are using glue-in bolts you have to determine the
best epoxy for your application. Then once you are ready to drill you have to thoroughly clean the hole and the bolt. If you are using U bolts you have to precoat the bolt and the holes.
You have to determine how to insert the bolt into the hole without creating an air pocket. Then once you get the first bolt in, you have to manage the epoxy gun so you dont drip epoxy all of the route.
I could go on for days about the technicalities of bolting. But put simply, bolting a route for lead is significantly more complicated then just drilling a hole and slamming a bolt in there.
