Forums: Climbing Information: Gear Heads: Re: [patto] What determines the rate at which a cam will rip out?: Edit Log




Partner cracklover


Sep 27, 2012, 8:22 AM

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Registered: Nov 14, 2002
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Re: [patto] What determines the rate at which a cam will rip out?
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patto wrote:
cracklover wrote:
The point I'm trying to make is that all my experience leads me to suspect that many placements (at least for cams roughly an inch and a half or smaller), placements you and I use every day and call good enough, are squarely in that "gray area".

These placements would, if subjected to a serious fall, fail at significantly below the rated strength of the cam. The reasons are myriad, and not worth going into here. The point is that the notion that a cam is either "good" or "bad" in the real world is simply silly and misleading.

Sure, I could find you placements where I'd bet good money that the cam would fail at it's rated strength, but in the real world, such placements are often nothing more than a pipe dream, and we go with what's "good enough".

The only scary thing, to me, is that I bet that most people wouldn't know the difference between a "good enough" placement and a truly bomber one. Fortunately, it rarely matters, since most of us don't go around taking big whippers most of the time.

GO

Comments like these make me think you climb on really shit rock. I place cams all the way down to the Green ZERO, which is 1/3 of an inch. (Though I haven't falled on greeny.)

Here are some real world tests of trad gear. The sandstone where this gear was placed is renowned for its poor quality for trad gear. (though it isn't as bad as really shitty sandstone.)
http://www.sanguma.org/...ructo/placements.php

Your comments that decent most cams can hole light falls but not big whippers are simply not true for decent cams good rock.

I climb on a variety of rock, and make a variety of placements in that rock. I'll just give a few examples:

In even the hardest and most parallel of desert sandstone, I'm absolutely sure that a hard fall on a small cam will cause it to track at least a little. Depending on how deep the cam is (some placements are simply shallow, there's nothing to be done about it) that could mean a ripped placement from a hard fall.

In even the hardest granite, you sometimes must make do with a shallow cam in a pin scar. Expecting these to hold a hard fall is wishful thinking. A buddy of mine recently fell and ripped four such cams from their placements - all of which he thought were truck.

Those are just a couple examples of gear that looks - not perfect, but good enough. And these pieces will certainly hold, but will pull out before they break.

BTW, your link does little to bolster your point. There were only two cams tested, and in both cases, they tracked out, undamaged. In one case, it tracked out even though it was behind a bottleneck, which is the one case where a cam should be absolutely solid. So much for your theory that it either comes out with a tug or hold until it breaks or the rock crumbles.

GO


(This post was edited by cracklover on Sep 27, 2012, 8:24 AM)



Edit Log:
Post edited by cracklover () on Sep 27, 2012, 8:24 AM


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