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core
Jun 21, 2007, 5:18 PM
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Do you own Aliens and no longer place them?
Are they sitting in your closet collecting dust for fear of climbing over them?
Have you not sold your unwanted Aliens because you are afraid of potentially contributing to the injury of another climber?
If you have answered yes to these questions, I will gladly accept your Aliens at no cost, thereby relieving you of any burden. PM me for shipping address.
 ,
Core
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shimanilami
Jun 21, 2007, 5:46 PM
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Trophy.
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Dillbag
Jun 21, 2007, 5:51 PM
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Best of luck to you....
I've been offering $12 per Alien to remove them from circulation on peoples racks... (including shipping cost)
But, so far... I've only had a couple bites.
---
Oh, and that offer is still standing. PM for details!
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caughtinside
Jun 21, 2007, 5:57 PM
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Good one. I'll pay $12 for any unwanted aliens!
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core
Jun 21, 2007, 5:59 PM
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Will you please remove the parasitic portion of your post from my solicitation?
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caughtinside
Jun 21, 2007, 6:03 PM
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core wrote: Will you please remove the parasitic portion of your post from my solicitation? [image]http://www.west.asu.edu/achristie/hsw4kids/animals/sharks/remora1.jpg[/image]
It's a bidding war! Do I hear $13?
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core
Jun 21, 2007, 6:14 PM
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First: (I know the remora is not a parasite)
Second: I'm reaching out, as a service, to those who will not participate in the potential injury of another climber by receiving compensation for their hazardous climbing equipment.
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dpurf
Jun 21, 2007, 6:16 PM
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I will push it up to $15.00
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caughtinside
Jun 21, 2007, 6:18 PM
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First: I'm more of a lamprey... definitely a parasite! 
Second: I'm doing it out of pure self interest. This is climbers we're talking about, not do-gooders! Look at bobreuf, first thing he did was put his on ebay and get top dollar! Just think climbers, for $12 you will have the satisfaction of knowing that I will whip all over your defective gear!
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Dillbag
Jun 21, 2007, 6:18 PM
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I guess in that respect... Consider my post a symbiotic one, not parasitic...
For those out there who don't feel comfortable selling their aliens, please PM core.
For those who would like to get a "recycling" fee of $12 for each alien, please PM Dillbag (me).
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rhyang
Jun 21, 2007, 6:19 PM
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Ridiculous. I ebayed a few newer ones for nearly what I paid for them. Just paste the specs from aliencamsbycch.com and mention how good they are for aid climbing 
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dpurf
Jun 21, 2007, 6:20 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: dpurf wrote: I will push it up to $15.00 $17 for any Aliens you do not want, PM please
$17.01 for your unwanted Aliens
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tb69hikeclimb
Jun 21, 2007, 6:21 PM
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I believe most places charge YOU for the removal of hazardous waste. so there for I will gladly take you aliens from YOU if you pay me $10.00 dispossal fee
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core
Jun 21, 2007, 6:36 PM
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majid, you'll just end up being a statistic in the I&A forum. Time to excuse yourself from the dinner table.
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majid_sabet
Jun 21, 2007, 8:13 PM
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core wrote: majid, you'll just end up being a statistic in the I&A forum. Time to excuse yourself from the dinner table.
You are right, I bet my RC enemies love to sell me a Junker to get even with me.
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caughtinside
Jun 21, 2007, 8:22 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: core wrote: majid, you'll just end up being a statistic in the I&A forum. Time to excuse yourself from the dinner table. You are right, I bet my RC enemies love to sell me a Junker to get even with me.
Not me! Majid is the man! Keep on keepin' us safe, bro!
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papounet
Jun 21, 2007, 8:26 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: core wrote: majid, you'll just end up being a statistic in the I&A forum. Time to excuse yourself from the dinner table. You are right, I bet my RC enemies love to sell me a Junker to get even with me.
That would be your next toy then...
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sky7high
Jun 21, 2007, 8:45 PM
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actually, you can send them over to mexico, where nobody has heard of the recall, the accidents or any of that crap and everyone is willing to pay more than a C4 for them (which over here is like 70 bucks!)
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fulton
Jun 21, 2007, 8:47 PM
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core wrote: I will gladly accept your Aliens Core
That's like asking for syphilis
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Gmburns2000
Jun 21, 2007, 8:57 PM
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you should have posted your photo from the MassClimbers thread in the women's section. That might have bought you a new rack, complete with gear slings, rope, cams, biners, yada yada yada...
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fulton
Jun 21, 2007, 8:58 PM
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LOL 
(I admire your bravery - now climb onto the cross)
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stymingersfink
Jun 22, 2007, 12:02 AM
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fulton wrote: core wrote: I will gladly accept your Aliens Core That's like asking for syphilis
I'll up the hazardous waste disposal fee to $20. You pay shipping.
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coastal_climber
Jun 22, 2007, 4:28 AM
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core wrote: Do you own Aliens and no longer place them? Are they sitting in your closet collecting dust for fear of climbing over them? Have you not sold your unwanted Aliens because you are afraid of potentially contributing to the injury of another climber? If you have answered yes to these questions, I will gladly accept your Aliens at no cost, thereby relieving you of any burden. PM me for shipping address. , Core
So what are you doing with them?
>Cam
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core
Jun 22, 2007, 1:26 PM
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coastal_climber wrote: core wrote: Do you own Aliens and no longer place them? Are they sitting in your closet collecting dust for fear of climbing over them? Have you not sold your unwanted Aliens because you are afraid of potentially contributing to the injury of another climber? If you have answered yes to these questions, I will gladly accept your Aliens at no cost, thereby relieving you of any burden. PM me for shipping address. , Core So what are you doing with them? >Cam
Add them to my rack. 
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cracklover
Jun 22, 2007, 2:35 PM
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core wrote: coastal_climber wrote: core wrote: Do you own Aliens and no longer place them? Are they sitting in your closet collecting dust for fear of climbing over them? Have you not sold your unwanted Aliens because you are afraid of potentially contributing to the injury of another climber? If you have answered yes to these questions, I will gladly accept your Aliens at no cost, thereby relieving you of any burden. PM me for shipping address. , Core So what are you doing with them? >Cam Add them to my rack.
He's gonna give 'em to me, and I'm going to drop rocks on them, bwahahahah! C'mon, Cory, don't you want to see if we can get a head to pop off? Either that or he'll put 'em on the tester at work.
But yeah, ultimately, they'll wind up on his rack (unless I score a couple of 'em).
GO
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zeke_sf
Jun 22, 2007, 2:41 PM
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So is taking whippers on backed-up gear just a plain retarded idea? Screw the "bad karma" and "liability" and just tell me to do it already!
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core
Jun 22, 2007, 4:15 PM
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That's right...keep 'em coming folks.
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stymingersfink
Jun 22, 2007, 11:38 PM
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check this guy out!
http://www.rockclimbing.com/classifieds/Detailed/807.html
ha!
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donald949
Jun 23, 2007, 12:13 AM
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Someone said 20, I'll top that. I'll take 25 bucks each for your aliens.
As many as you have.
Cash only please.
PM for shipping address.
Don
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bent_gate
Jun 23, 2007, 1:31 AM
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Dillbag wrote: For those who would like to get a "recycling" fee of $12 for each alien, please PM Dillbag (me).
tb69hikeclimb wrote: I believe most places charge YOU for the removal of hazardous waste. so there for I will gladly take you aliens from YOU if you pay me $10.00 dispossal fee
Recycling is the way to go.
I don't see what all the criticism at CCH is about. All of those Eco-Warriors out there keep demanding that manufacturers provide Cradle to Grave products.
CCH finally does it, and their still not happy!
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snoopy138
Jun 23, 2007, 2:23 AM
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stymingersfink wrote: check this guy out! http://www.rockclimbing.com/classifieds/Detailed/807.html ha!
He's got his advertising all wrong. I don't want to hear no or one placements. I want to hear that they're from 2002, and he's whipped onto all of them.
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medicus
Jun 23, 2007, 2:36 AM
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billcoe_
Jun 23, 2007, 4:04 AM
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Probably need to see this report with pictures dated 6-11-07. You need to scroll down to that date range to read it, but is says:
http://www.supertopo.com/...59&tn=0&mr=0
Ghoulwje said: " CLIMBER159
I hate to rain on the parade.
I have been silent awaiting a design change from CCH.
Now you speak on behalf of CCH to defend the product/process as it currently stands. I have to speak up now.
I pulled 12 aliens of current production.
2 failed
1 Blue 1200 pounds Stamped "Tested" and "L" on the head and "Tensile Tested" on the loop.
Date stamp on trigger 307
2nd Yellow 1100 pounds Stamped "C" on the head and "Tensile Tested" on the loop
Trigger is stamped 307
I did the testing on May 11, 2007.
Problems with the test:
Dyno is a 15k dyno. Idealy you are using 80% of the range.
The pull was done with an electric winch with a dyneema runner wrapped around the head.
These issues do not offer enough variable in my humble opinion to warrant the failures insignificant.
Note: on this day I tested 12 cams and 2 failed.
I have another 14 cams that did not fail on tests done last year.
I informed both retaliers that supplied the cams to me of the problem. They both continue to sell them. Although 1 has communicated in detail that they are desperatly trying to help CCH get QC under control.
I sent the failed cams to Norhtwest Labs for evaluation. Once they received them they informed me they could not do an evaluation because they are in the middle of an evaluation that may result in legal action (Rick Schefsky at N.West Labs).
I wish you would sell the brazing gear and start crimping the cable.
FYI: the failure looks similar to the Sauders Crack failure... It is not that the cable was not inserted all the way. The cable broke at the braze and severed itself slightly inside the braze.
I am a fan of the product, I even tried to buy the company because the design concept is fantastic, but you cannot have cams failing. There is already too many things to go wrong in this sport.
Fix the process, get 100% outside testing and comeback to the market place. Hell, if you do that, I would even help promote your product.
I have pictures. I do not have any desire to go through the photo buck thing to post. If somebody wants to post them, send me an email and I will fire them your way.
Now, I would like to disapear back into my positive world of climbing and the outdoors.
Kind regards and good luck,
Jay "
Thats right. 12 brand new "Tensile Tested" to the NEW higher quality standard CCH purports to strive for, were tested.
2 failed.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
HAHAHA...
ha....ha
Sobbbb
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billcoe_
Jun 23, 2007, 4:05 AM
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sob
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majid_sabet
Jun 23, 2007, 4:54 AM
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what the heck is that yellow stuff at the end of that cable ? do not tell me they heat up the end to solder that stuff on .
http://www.sanlo.com/product/gswire.htm
[URL=http://imageshack.us]
Shot with [URL=http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=u710%2CS710+++++++.&make=OLYMPUS+IMAGING+CORP.++.]u710,S710 . at 1969-12-31
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Jun 23, 2007, 7:23 AM)
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mheyman
Jun 23, 2007, 2:49 PM
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In reply to: do not tell me they heat up the end to solder that stuff on .
Yes majid yes, that’s exactly what they do to braze or solder. Note that these processes are typical of many cams, not just Aliens.
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stymingersfink
Jun 23, 2007, 7:11 PM
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mheyman wrote: In reply to: do not tell me they heat up the end to solder that stuff on . Yes majid yes, that’s exactly what they do to braze or solder. Note that these processes are typical of many cams, not just Aliens.
don't seem to recall any issues BD ever had with that manufacturing process. Perhaps because they caught any cams which failed testing BEFORE they went out the door... IDK.
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tradrenn
Jun 23, 2007, 11:45 PM
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I have 6 Aliens ( Black to Red ) that are collecting dust now.
Anyone can have them for $180 + Shipping from Canada.
I don't give a fuck about your "disposing" jokes.
Good day to you all.
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majid_sabet
Jun 24, 2007, 12:15 AM
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mheyman wrote: In reply to: do not tell me they heat up the end to solder that stuff on . Yes majid yes, that’s exactly what they do to braze or solder. Note that these processes are typical of many cams, not just Aliens.
You are not suppose to heat any SST cable . It will make it weaker and it will fail from where it took the most heat (solder) and that way that sucker failed 70% BELOW its rating.
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Jun 24, 2007, 12:16 AM)
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curt
Jun 24, 2007, 1:52 AM
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majid_sabet wrote: mheyman wrote: In reply to: do not tell me they heat up the end to solder that stuff on . Yes majid yes, that’s exactly what they do to braze or solder. Note that these processes are typical of many cams, not just Aliens. You are not suppose to heat any SST cable . It will make it weaker and it will fail from where it took the most heat (solder) and that way that sucker failed 70% BELOW its rating.
Majid, that's utter nonsense. When properly brazed, the solder union of the Alien head to the cable is stronger than the cable itself.
Curt
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majid_sabet
Jun 24, 2007, 3:46 AM
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curt wrote: majid_sabet wrote: mheyman wrote: In reply to: do not tell me they heat up the end to solder that stuff on . Yes majid yes, that’s exactly what they do to braze or solder. Note that these processes are typical of many cams, not just Aliens. You are not suppose to heat any SST cable . It will make it weaker and it will fail from where it took the most heat (solder) and that way that sucker failed 70% BELOW its rating. Majid, that's utter nonsense. When properly brazed, the solder union of the Alien head to the cable is stronger than the cable itself. Curt
You are trying to convince some one who used to rig SST cable in aircrafts that heating SST cable does not make it weaker and by adding solder it becomes stronger ?
is that right curt ?
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Jun 24, 2007, 3:48 AM)
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curt
Jun 24, 2007, 4:06 AM
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majid_sabet wrote: curt wrote: majid_sabet wrote: mheyman wrote: In reply to: do not tell me they heat up the end to solder that stuff on . Yes majid yes, that’s exactly what they do to braze or solder. Note that these processes are typical of many cams, not just Aliens. You are not suppose to heat any SST cable . It will make it weaker and it will fail from where it took the most heat (solder) and that way that sucker failed 70% BELOW its rating. Majid, that's utter nonsense. When properly brazed, the solder union of the Alien head to the cable is stronger than the cable itself. Curt You are trying to convince some one who used to rig SST cable in aircrafts that heating SST cable does not make it weaker and by adding solder it becomes stronger ? is that right curt ?
Yes, I guess so. It's nice that you have some experience "rigging" with SST cables--but that certainly does not make you any sort of expert in materials science. It is a well established fact that properly done braze joints (where SST cables are soldered into cam head sleeves) are stronger than the cables themselves. Whether or not I can convince you is completely irrelevant--I'm merely stating a fact.
Curt
(This post was edited by curt on Jun 24, 2007, 4:08 AM)
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majid_sabet
Jun 24, 2007, 4:15 AM
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curt wrote: majid_sabet wrote: curt wrote: majid_sabet wrote: mheyman wrote: In reply to: do not tell me they heat up the end to solder that stuff on . Yes majid yes, that’s exactly what they do to braze or solder. Note that these processes are typical of many cams, not just Aliens. You are not suppose to heat any SST cable . It will make it weaker and it will fail from where it took the most heat (solder) and that way that sucker failed 70% BELOW its rating. Majid, that's utter nonsense. When properly brazed, the solder union of the Alien head to the cable is stronger than the cable itself. Curt You are trying to convince some one who used to rig SST cable in aircrafts that heating SST cable does not make it weaker and by adding solder it becomes stronger ? is that right curt ? Yes, I guess so. It's nice that you have some experience "rigging" with SST cables--but that certainly does not make you any sort of expert in materials science. It is a well established fact that properly done braze joints (where SST cables are soldered into cam head sleeves) are stronger than the cables themselves. Whether or not I can convince you is completely irrelevant--I'm merely stating a fact. Curt
Except cable did not fail in the middle but right at the so called strong braze joint.
Come up with some hard data Curt, I guess it is time for me to learn some thing new.
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curt
Jun 24, 2007, 4:23 AM
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majid_sabet wrote: curt wrote: majid_sabet wrote: curt wrote: majid_sabet wrote: mheyman wrote: In reply to: do not tell me they heat up the end to solder that stuff on . Yes majid yes, that’s exactly what they do to braze or solder. Note that these processes are typical of many cams, not just Aliens. You are not suppose to heat any SST cable . It will make it weaker and it will fail from where it took the most heat (solder) and that way that sucker failed 70% BELOW its rating. Majid, that's utter nonsense. When properly brazed, the solder union of the Alien head to the cable is stronger than the cable itself. Curt You are trying to convince some one who used to rig SST cable in aircrafts that heating SST cable does not make it weaker and by adding solder it becomes stronger ? is that right curt ? Yes, I guess so. It's nice that you have some experience "rigging" with SST cables--but that certainly does not make you any sort of expert in materials science. It is a well established fact that properly done braze joints (where SST cables are soldered into cam head sleeves) are stronger than the cables themselves. Whether or not I can convince you is completely irrelevant--I'm merely stating a fact. Curt Except cable did not fail in the middle but right at the so called strong braze joint....
I'm not sure why we are having a disconnect here. I never said that the braze joint shown in the pictures above was a good or "strong" braze joint. I'm merely pointing out that your general comment about never heating up an SST cable (in and of itself) is incorrect.
Curt
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majid_sabet
Jun 24, 2007, 5:06 AM
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I have good friend in Montana who is second generation Industrial cable rigger, I am going to call him up on Monday to see what he thinks of heat and SST just to get another opinion on this.
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curt
Jun 24, 2007, 6:03 AM
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majid_sabet wrote: I have good friend in Montana who is second generation Industrial cable rigger, I am going to call him up on Monday to see what he thinks of heat and SST just to get another opinion on this.
Well, that should be interesting.
Curt
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mheyman
Jun 24, 2007, 6:02 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: I have good friend in Montana who is second generation Industrial cable rigger, I am going to call him up on Monday to see what he thinks of heat and SST just to get another opinion on this.
Whether or not the cable weakens is also irrevalent. All that matters is that when done properly it still meets its specification.
I believe that brazed and soldered joints can have flex/breakage problems. But stainless is more flexible than many alternatives and that’s probably at least one reason it is used.
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bent_gate
Jun 24, 2007, 8:50 PM
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mheyman wrote: majid_sabet wrote: I have good friend in Montana who is second generation Industrial cable rigger, I am going to call him up on Monday to see what he thinks of heat and SST just to get another opinion on this. Whether or not the cable weakens is also irrevalent. All that matters is that when done properly it still meets its specification. I believe that brazed and soldered joints can have flex/breakage problems. But stainless is more flexible than many alternatives and that’s probably at least one reason it is used.
And I second the point. Unless you are a Metalurgist that regularly works with Stainless Steel, this sidetrack is not really relavent.
And does anyone here really know exactly what type of filler material was used in these brazes anyway? (Nickel-Silver, Bronze?) If not, then especially arguing optimal temperatures is irrelavent.
And does anyone here really know exactly what process CCH uses for it's brazes? Do they use a torch? an oven? Pre-formed plugs of filler material? Again, this is just tip of metallurgical factors.
Surface area and geometry are important factors in determining braze strengh. IN GENERAL, a brazed area is 1/3 as strong as the metal it is adjoining. So the joint is made stronger than the materials by having more than 3 times the surface area/thickness overlap.
So if the cable does not get fully inserted into the head socket, there may not be enough surface area in contact, and the total braze could fail before the materials.
Heat is used to melt the filler material. The manner of how this is done may affect the surrounding materials. Whatever method is used, any weakening caused by whatever process is used, needs to be compensated for in advance by making sure the designed joint has enough overlap to make it stronger than the materials.
Metallography cross-section picture of a good braze. Metal - Filler Material - Metal
(warning: I am NOT a metallurgist! please feel free to correct.)
As <mheyman> said, all that matters is that it meets whatever strength specification that is desired. (and of course that it is tested to a strength that does not cause any appreciable over-stress or fatigue).
I think that it is important to note that this braze joint only seems to be tested for a straight downward pull.
Which brings up the question of where I think this discussion should go. Does the rated strength of the whole cam only apply to a perfectly straight downward pull? Or does it also apply to a sideways pull, like when the cam is placed horizontally, but a fall pulls down on the cable vertically? If so, are they tested this way?
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majid_sabet
Jun 24, 2007, 9:22 PM
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Registered: Dec 13, 2002
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majid_sabet
Jun 24, 2007, 9:45 PM
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The only other logic I could see on why they brazed any cable is to fill up the empty space in-between layer of wires as shown in yellow. using this method makes wire to be attached to final link better but generally heat is not good for SST material.
[URL=http://imageshack.us]
Shot at 1969-12-31
[URL=http://imageshack.us]
Shot at 1969-12-31
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core
Jun 25, 2007, 11:46 AM
Post #52 of 54
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Registered: Jul 29, 2003
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dammit! stfu and just send me your aliens! 
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coastal_climber
Jun 25, 2007, 3:42 PM
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core wrote: Do you own Aliens and no longer place them? Are they sitting in your closet collecting dust for fear of climbing over them? Have you not sold your unwanted Aliens because you are afraid of potentially contributing to the injury of another climber? If you have answered yes to these questions, I will gladly accept your Aliens at no cost, thereby relieving you of any burden. PM me for shipping address. , Core
No!
>Cam
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