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jt512
Jan 24, 2002, 1:52 AM
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I use gri-gri's routinely. They are dependable providing you follow the manufacturer's directions. Thread them correctly and use a rope with a diameter within the gri-gri's specs. Be careful with new, slick ropes, for which the "catch" may not be as positive.
-Jay
P.S. The English language has punctuation for a reason.
[ This Message was edited by: jt512 on 2002-01-23 17:55 ]
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addiroids
Jan 24, 2002, 2:18 AM
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no I don't trust anything made by french people and that includes automaticlockingbelaydevices like the gri-gri I don't think you should either just kidding they work fine as long as you load them correctly and learn how to use them and while you are in to this learning thing learn how to use punctuation like the above dude said TRADitionally yours Addiroids
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downshift
Jan 24, 2002, 2:27 AM
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I fully trust a Gri-Gri. But, you and your climbing partners do have to know how to use it properly. It just a matter of training, a gri-gri adds and extra layer of safety.
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woodse
Jan 24, 2002, 3:17 AM
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Don't trust the French!!!!!
hahahaha
No offense to any French members.
woodsE
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euphoricclimbing
Jan 24, 2002, 3:26 AM
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Please don't take this the wrong way, or any one else for that matter, but if you are too lazy too brake a belay, then don't bother. If you are going to use a grigri, then ask the person that is climbing if they want a grigri holding their fall. If the grigri fails then you will still be alive. So, the real question: does you partner want you to have a grigri???? It takes such a small amount of force to brake a belay device.
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wallhammer
Jan 24, 2002, 5:28 AM
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as pepe la pu says " we french know our gri-gri,s". and as much as i think the french are lazy cigerette smoking useless peugeot driving people that cant even make disneyworld work and would be living in a country called germany right now now if not for the good ol u.s.a., the gri gri works. check on the petzel website for how much of a fall factor a gri gri can handle vs other methods. i held out for many years before addiroids and pass the pitons pete FORCED me to buy one. have not regretted it.
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madscientist
Jan 24, 2002, 5:46 AM
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I do trust a grigri, if it is used correctly. I see many people use it incorrectly, and this would concern me. I also think they provide an additional level of security for sport climbing. I had a friend who became light headed and almost fainted while belaying one day. They never figured out why, but a grigri is good to have in that situation. You just never know what is going to happen, and while sport climbing they add an extra level of security. Now that I have said that, I don't own or use one myself, but someday I will buy one.
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beyond_gravity
Jan 26, 2002, 5:40 PM
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I guy here hit the deck in a gym cuz he didn't have his brake hand on the rope. He was using a Gri Gri, lucky, he walked away fine because he was in the front room with the padded floor, but if he was outdoors.....OUCH! This happens when lead belaying and you dont hold the device properly, if you hold the Gri Gri when theres a fall, it will not lock.
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compclimber
Jan 26, 2002, 6:33 PM
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Beyond_Gravity: That has happened at a number of gyms actually. And as you read through this thread and your post specifically, the Gri-Gri is not at fault in any of the stories. It has been operator error... that's why there is the big drawing on the front of a Gri-Gri... to avoid things like this happening.
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stickit
Jan 27, 2002, 5:45 AM
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You are both totally right. Keep the brake-hand on. The thing wasn't designed for mass use. It was for those poor (filthy-rich) Swiss guides who had to lead the routes they were hauling people up. They didn't trust their client's belays and the GriGri was born. If you are not some posh, stuck-up, $20,000 client (with a death wish for their guide), keep the brake hand on.
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512
Jan 27, 2002, 7:16 AM
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I used to work at a little 4 route wall in a Sun and Ski Sports wall, and had to use the Gri-Gri all day. I loved it at the end of a long day of belaying little fat kids who think they are the stuff. After you brake it you can let go and they arent going anywhere. I trust them with MY life.
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ryanguy
Jan 27, 2002, 9:04 AM
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Not worth the expense nor the weight. I've been dropped 20 feet on one and hit a tree branch getting a nice cut all because of a non-attentitive belay who assumed that because the device is automatic that attention can drift. I've also seen many times a belayer just standing there with his arms crossed waiting for his partner to make a move. Plain and simple they tend to teach bad technique. However, they do have there place and if used correctly are quite safe but I will never use one.
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kelownaclimber
Jan 27, 2002, 2:09 PM
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Guys and Gals,
For sport climbing the gri-gri is the only way to go.The reason people mess up with gri-gri's is because they are not trained properly in it's use.All the people I climb with use one(most of us are 11+ or 12+ climbers with plenty of logged air time) and I personally will not climb on an A.T.C. belay on sport routes.Now for ice or trad that is a different story,A.T.C. is what we use.Check my post http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=6197&forum=40&7
[ This Message was edited by: kelownaclimber on 2002-01-27 06:11 ]
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nikegirl
Jan 27, 2002, 4:04 PM
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I happen to love my gri gri!
I do need to use my atc more...for a good reason...practice, and knowing the whole feel and security in it.
I've been working on it.
I just happened to start out with the Gri Gri.
And know it, well. I trust it.
my two cents.
T
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beyond_gravity
Jan 27, 2002, 6:00 PM
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I think you people are missing the point. A Gri-Gri is wonderful when used properly. BUT, it is much easyer to use improporly. With an ATC, the belayer can be 100% sure that there climber is gonna hit the deck if there hands arnt on the rope. With a GriGri, you're PRETTY sure it's going to lock automatically. If you use it with the same care as an ATC, it's the safest thing out there. BUT, i am a guilty for bad technique with a gri-gri. I do trust it too much, and i'll pay less attenion to whats happening on the rock, and more attenion to the chick climbing topless.
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jules
Jan 28, 2002, 8:46 PM
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I've only used them in gyms, where there is no other option.
I used them just like any belay device; with my brake hand in use, and the works.
This way, nothing bad happens.
Just a note: I like the figure-8 a whole lot better. It's way easier for me to let the climber down.
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froggy
Jan 28, 2002, 8:53 PM
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I don't trust them completely for whatever reasons.. I have seen them not lock is 1 BIG reason. They don't put my mind at ease and personal preference.
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treyr
Jan 28, 2002, 9:57 PM
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I would trust it because you would have to realy mess it up for it not to work!!!!!
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paulc
Jan 28, 2002, 10:12 PM
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As has been said before the major reasons that people get hurt when belayed on a gri-gri are operator error, incorrect diameter rope (which I would call O.E.).
The only reason that a gri-gri would slip under normal circumstances are lots of rope drag or something or someone holding the lever.
Fig-8, bagph!! twistie rope central. I like to spend as much time climbing and as little time dealing with crap like twisted ropes. If you have issues with gri-gri's for lowering people (and it takes some getting used to) think about using a reverso, they lower/rappel really smoothly. Or perhaps a munter hitch, though if you feed that wrong you can still twist the rope like there is no tomorrow.
Paul
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jt512
Jan 31, 2002, 11:29 PM
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Quote:I've read a bunch of posts about the Gri-Gri that talk about it being safe if the belayer is properly "trained" on its use. Aside from reading written instructions in climbing manuals and in the Petzl documentation, how do you get trained?
Petzl's Gri-Gri training courses are popular in France. The company offers 3 levels of certification: toprope (CG1), lead (CG2), and instructor (CGI). For those unable to attend the courses in France, there are a handful of Petzl-trained CGIs in the U.S. AFAIK, I'm the only one on the West Coast. Prices for training depend on the student's goals and current level of experience. Rental Gri-Gri's are available for a nominal fee.
Do not confuse this program with cheap counterfeit programs offerred by immitators, such as Putzl. These programs are total rip-offs. Trust only genuine Petzl Gri-Gri training.
-Jay, CGI
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addiroids
Feb 1, 2002, 12:46 AM
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Dude, are you serious? It takes about 5 minutes to learn how to use a gri-gri properly. I need to start my own course out here and make some money.
No offense if you were actually serious though.
TRADitionally yours,
Addiroids
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kaptk
Feb 1, 2002, 11:15 AM
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I used a Gri-Gri for the first time at a camp that I work at in Maine after having used ATC's and sticht plates. I liked the Gri-Gri. I got one from REI on sale and I trust it to work as long as it is being used properly. I quote from the instruction manual that comes with the device. "This device can help eliminate some potential belaying errors, but not all of them. Our experience with it indicates that the problem with making a product that tries to make climbing less risky, is that climbers may act as though there's no risk at all. Don't make that mistake: this device is not a substitute for skilled, vigilant belaying." It all comes back to human error.
P.S.- I am getting tired of the pro Gri-Gri/anti Gri-Gri forums.
[ This Message was edited by: kaptk on 2002-02-01 03:16 ]
[ This Message was edited by: kaptk on 2002-02-01 03:17 ]
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upfreak
Feb 3, 2002, 7:13 PM
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The Gri-gri is a dependable equipment ...
But just like any other, it does have its downside... u HAVE to remember to check out that the thickness of a rope b4 using it with the gri-gri cos, this equipment only works on the correct rope thickness.
Any thinner... bye bye???
Anyway, just like the sport itself, it is safest when done/used with the knowledge to do so.....
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iclimbtoo
Feb 12, 2002, 7:15 AM
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The mistake that many people tend to make when using a gri gri is that they think it will do the work for them and they don't need to belay. Wrong. If this is how the gri gri is being used, I wouldn't trust it either! However, if the person belaying knows how to use it, then a gri gri can help relax a belayer's arms after a long day of climbing by making pulling the rope easier. Also, I work at a climbing wall, so we use gri gri's frequently to reroute the wall. However, as everyone one knows, the only way to be safe in climbing is by backing everything up. So if you are self belaying on a gri gri, although they catch 99% of the time, there's still that 1% chance. So we tie figure eights on a bight (back up knots) as we ascend and pull our slack through. This way, if the gri gri does fail, you won't be sailing to the bottom of your rope!
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iclimbtoo
Feb 12, 2002, 7:18 AM
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I'm with addiroids...let's start a school to train people on gri gri's and make some $$$!!! I'll cover the Mid-west, you can get the west coast, and then we need a southerner and an easterner and we're set!! Time for rolling some dough!!
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coach
Feb 12, 2002, 2:37 PM
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I already have Adds franchise for the south area. On the issue of using the GriGri the only problem I find with it is when the climber is downclimbing. The belayer has to stay ahead of him with slack or it locks up. With a belayer that is a bit inexperienced this is a bitch! I have seen one case of a climber decking when the belayer was lowering him but luckily no injury. I still use and trust the GriGri.
Climb On
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daisuke
Feb 12, 2002, 3:09 PM
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has anyone ever seen the mechanism of the gri gri actually fail and not lock? from the way it's made I can't imagine a gri gri failing under a fall unless the device was dropped from a great height, and you'd have to be dumb to use one in those circumstances. so far every story of gri gri accidents I've heard of are the fault of the belayer and improper use
D
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iclimbtoo
Feb 12, 2002, 4:04 PM
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Yeah, I've had a perfectly new gri gri not lock on me before while on self belay. But I had back up knots in. The gri gri had never been dropped, it was threaded right, and all was good. But I had a back up knot, so it was all good. And even after that, I still use gri gri's consistently!
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leadingedge
Feb 16, 2002, 3:30 PM
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I would trust it, unless it was very old and wasn't mine.
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clymber
Feb 16, 2002, 11:51 PM
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I personally hate them and wouldnt trust them even when belaying my worse enemy. of course that just my opinon and does anyone really care about it
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gekolimit
Feb 17, 2002, 6:15 AM
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Grigri's have been tested thourghly, just like all the other gear...do you really think 'Petzl' is gonna risk putting a dangerous tool in the shops?
I doubt that.
I trust a grigri more then the rock inwhich my anchor is set. I know that rock hasn't been tested and my grigri has.
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elcapbuzz
Feb 17, 2002, 7:02 AM
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I have used a Gri-Gri every time I have soloed a big wall. (12 times)
I have taken HUGE falls on them (80 feet).
I TRUST them with MY life.......
But, I don't use it every time. If I am belaying somebody on a fast moving sport climb, I use an atc, vc, stitch plate, etc.
The reason is becuase you have to pinch the locking mechanism for a second to feed out slack. I've seen climbers fall in that second and fall further or almost hit the deck as a result.
Also, I've seen belayers lock off, as you would with an atc, if doing this with enough force you could actually be stopping the cam from locking against the rope.
Ammon
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krustyklimber
Feb 17, 2002, 10:23 AM
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I could ride around in a covered wagon, but I don't, I choose to get around in a car!!! I think the same logic applies here.
The Gri-Gri, used properly, with good protection, is a wonderful device.
Jeff
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hangover
Apr 24, 2002, 3:15 AM
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i also have a sheriff and i love it. I have used a grigri a couple times at the gym and it didnt seem that much more helpful to be worth spending the money.
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roadtrip
Apr 24, 2002, 4:30 AM
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Gri-gri's are sensational, and I won't even go into all the reasons(no need to give the naysayers the free knowledge). There are, however; only two ways to f#%$-up using this tool, so here are the dummy-proof tips for gri-gri virgins--
1) Yank test every time you load(to avoid misthreading).
2) When a fall occurs, let go of the gri-gri(to avoid preventing the camming device from engaging).
#2 doesn't mean, 'don't pull in the slack', in fact you can hand over hand in the slack w/ a gri faster than any other device. Anyway, I don't have time to go into all the in' and out's, so shred me if you must, but the above tips are how I teach a newbie to belay me, and hopefully the tips may be of use. Be safe.
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phreakdigital
Apr 24, 2002, 6:01 AM
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I like to use the grigri for easy routes that i have climbed before or when the belayer is an idiot.
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ravens_wing_jim
Apr 24, 2002, 6:05 AM
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Well, I guess I'm old school,
but I'll just stick with an ATC thanks.
I have nothing against the GRI GRI,
but I have caught plenty-o-whippers
with an ATC, and it works just fine.
Hell, I've caught a lot of whippers
with the small end of my figure 8
for that matter.
Yeah the GRI GRI'S cool,
but to respond to another climber on here
who said he wont climb with anyone who
doesnt use one....please
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jt512
Apr 24, 2002, 6:36 PM
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Quote:
1) Yank test every time you load(to avoid misthreading).
I agree with the above. Always yank test. Not only will this let you know if you've backthreaded the gri-gri, but it will alert you to situations in which the gri-gri might be unreliable, such as when your rope is new and slick, or thin.
Quote: 2) When a fall occurs, let go of the gri-gri(to avoid preventing the camming device from engaging).
The above, I hope, is only badly worded. First of all, the gri-gri should be backed up by locking off the rope with your brake hand, just as you would do with an ATC-style device.
Secondly, the only times you should be touching the gri-gri itself is to unlock the cam after a fall and when holding the cam open to reef slack out to a leader who is clipping. At all other times your brake hand should be on the brake side of the rope and your guide hand should be on the side of the rope going to the climber. You should teach beginners to immediately get their hand off the cam and back onto the brake side of the rope as soon as they have payed out enough slack for the clip.
Quote:
#2 doesn't mean, 'don't pull in the slack', in fact you can hand over hand in the slack w/ a gri faster than any other device.
Rarely, in sport climbing, is it correct to take in slack when your partner falls. If the leader falls on vertical to overhanging terrain, slack should only be taken in if the leader is in danger of hitting the ground or a ledge. Taking in slack results in the leader swinging into the wall harder. This is the most common cause of injury in sport climbing.
-Jay
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krillen
Apr 24, 2002, 7:11 PM
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*everything I posted has already been said"
[ This Message was edited by: krillen on 2002-04-24 13:33 ]
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offwidth
Apr 24, 2002, 7:20 PM
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Gri-Gri's are great when you have bomber pro. When you don't have bomber pro, you might be better off with a belay device that can give a more dynamic belay.
I only use a Gri-Gri when sport climbing or top-roping. Any where else I use a Reverso.
Viva la France!
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delight
Apr 24, 2002, 7:25 PM
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I use a gri-gri when sport climbing and feel more confident when my belayer uses it. I trust her with an atc also, but I know if I take a lead fall that I will be caught no matter what even if she isn't watching closely or something were to happen to her to keep her from belaying. (I think it is best to have all the safety built in the system that I can.) I go for stuff without having to say "watch me!"
Also when working a route and hanging it is easier to hold someone with the gri-gri.
As for the design and reliability of the gri-gri I totally trust it.
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jt512
Apr 24, 2002, 7:29 PM
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Quote:
Let me ask you this: "how many accounts have you heard of a Gri Gri failing?" not human error, but mechanical failure.
You "hear about" lots, but every one I've heard of, I'm convinced was operator error.
However, the gri-gri will perform marginally, and needs to be backed up, under certain circumstances, such as with new, slick, or skinny ropes, low-angle falls, and light climbers. In these situations, the gri-gri sometimes only partially locks up and additional braking force needs to be applied by using the brake hand in the conventional manner.
-Jay
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hang_man
May 5, 2002, 1:17 AM
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I will stick to ATC or the trusty figure 8... though they are not that smooth afterall, but, ......oopz, what am i saying
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