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realization
Oct 16, 2003, 2:31 AM
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In your opinion, who has been the most influential climber of all time ? Just wanted to get some opinions out there, I might write a paper on this or something, and wanted to get some ideas! thanks :D In my opinions it is Dean Potter, he's done alot of outrageous new things, what do YOU think??
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erickaclimbstoo
Oct 16, 2003, 2:57 AM
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Okay don't know if this counts but I got into climbing form a collage profesor. He inspired me to go beyond what I thought I could achive. It's worked so far. I'm so thankfull for taking his classes and working with him. Thank you Bill Quinn!
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xcaliclimber
Oct 16, 2003, 3:05 AM
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Lynn Hill, definitely
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paganmonkeyboy
Oct 16, 2003, 3:08 AM
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Alex Lowe for attitude and general demeanor ( www.alexlowe.org )
Lynn Hill for sheer talent and setting the standard in a male dominated sport
Dan Osman too - he was incredible...
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maculated
Oct 16, 2003, 3:17 AM
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If I were to say "who" has influenced current climbing the most, it would have to be all the new climbers in the last five years or so. Climbing was happening way before this, but it has surged so much that THAT is what is becoming the driving force behind who is important nowadays. All those sponsored climbers are ABLE to do 5.15s because consumers are paying for them to, indirectly.
Gyms have sprung up, leading the way for more climbers, guides have enjoyed an influx of clientele. Then it has also become more diverse: no longer just alpine and trad, we've got sport and bouldering, too. That creates huge new demand for new and specialized items. Instead of the old tube devices and eights, we have Reversos and the like. Ropes are getting longer, stronger, thinner, lighter . . . harnesses are becoming more and more diverse. More shoes, etc.
This will allow for more top climbers to break barriers. Will there every be a 5.20? Maybe one day.
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stickclipper
Oct 16, 2003, 3:20 AM
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In reply to: In your opinion, who has been the most influential climber of all time ? Just wanted to get some opinions out there, I might write a paper on this or something, and wanted to get some ideas! thanks :D In my opinions it is Dean Potter, he's done alot of outrageous new things, what do YOU think??
This is not something you can pinpoint. Picking out the most influential AMERICAN climber with the first name John would be hard enough (Muir, Gill, Bachar, Long, Sherman, etc...).
Seriously, this is an unanswerable question; climbing is too diverse and too widespread to ever narrow it down to one fella.
I will say, however, that it is Definitely not Dean Potter - not taking anything away from him, but did not revolutionize climbing like Fritz Weissner or John Gill or Royal Robbins. Or, as has just been mentioned, Lynn Hill. You could argue (though I wouldn't) that he is the most influential contemporary climber, but even that is a Very shaky statement.
Realization: Buy Pat Ament's History of Free Climbing in America: Wizards of Rock. It will give you a decent perspective of many of the influential climbers and climbs of this country... (admittedly, a small portion of the climbing world)
And read about Fritz Weissner, his standard two piton rack, and his near first ascent of K2 in 1939. Roughly alpine style, no oxygen - would have been Hands Down the greatest achievement in climbing history if some mitigating circumstances (regarding the sherpas and Jack Durrance) had not conspired against him.
Dean Potter is an amazing, bold, and talented climber. Most influential, however, he is not.
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catra
Oct 16, 2003, 3:22 AM
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My husband Ammon McNeely he is truly amazing........
Catra
http://www.rocknrun.net
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m-d
Deleted
Oct 16, 2003, 3:25 AM
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Ferdinand Petzl, he was a caver, but his hardware rock...
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realization
Oct 16, 2003, 3:26 AM
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How about you can have your opinion and I can have mine ? how about that ?
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curt
Oct 16, 2003, 3:36 AM
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So, you had to start this thread because it was different from this thread...
In reply to: http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14564&highlight=influenced+climbing
Curt
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maculated
Oct 16, 2003, 4:03 AM
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In reply to: How about you can have your opinion and I can have mine ? how about that ?
Or you could have Catra's. I know Ammon influenced my music taste indirectly on a scary ride up the grade, which influences my inspiration, which influences my climbing . . . dammit, Ammon is the most influencial guy out there. She's right. : )
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rizzuh
Oct 16, 2003, 5:18 AM
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dan osman... that guy's an animal
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organic
Oct 16, 2003, 1:04 PM
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Why is this topic in midwest?
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cthcrockclimber
Oct 16, 2003, 1:14 PM
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The Dirty Bird
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vertical_reality
Oct 16, 2003, 1:22 PM
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I kinda agree with Maculated on this. In recent years the newer generation of climbers have had the greatest influence on beginner climbers, like Chris Sharma and Dave Graham.
But I think the most influencial climber of all time was George Mallory. Because of his vision and determination to climb Everest, he influenced countless other to persue the same dream and this may have led to the development of modern rock climbing.
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greenspace
Oct 16, 2003, 1:43 PM
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Yvon Chouinard. I got into ice climbing and mountaineering before I started rock climbing and that guy is a huge inspiration to me and a hell of a nice guy, I hear!
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madriver
Oct 16, 2003, 2:26 PM
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....tORI aLLEN.....
mr 8)
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melekzek
Oct 16, 2003, 2:39 PM
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In reply to: Picking out the most influential AMERICAN climber with the first name John would be hard enough
lol, thats a good one. Add tons of european people who basically started it all you and up with many many names. How to choose? There are also all the engineers who invented really really cool devices we cannot live with it, tom frost, mr petzl as mentioned, ray jardine the list goes on.
On the other hand if you form the question, "who is the most infuluencial/inspirational climber for you?" everybody can choose its onw.
For me, it might be Jerzy Kukuczka and Wolfgang Gullich.
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climb_plastic
Oct 16, 2003, 3:17 PM
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I'm relatively new. The names I hear are fred nicole, sharma for bouldering and sport, yuji for the asians and katie brown, tori allen are huge for the girls.
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tradman
Oct 16, 2003, 3:26 PM
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Sir Edmund Hilary. He brought climbing to a wider untouched audience than anyone before or since. Oh yeah and he p*ssed on the summit of everest too.
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gbschmitt
Oct 16, 2003, 4:07 PM
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Rudolf Fehrman, followed by Fritz Wiessner.
Rudolf Fehrman was the first vehement defender of climbing without artificial aids, what we now call "free climbing." His influence determined the groundrules for climbing in Elbsandstein, Germany (the"cradle of free-climbing") in the late 1800's and early 1900's. Fritz Wiessner later exported the spirit of free climbing to America.
G-Man
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elvislegs
Oct 16, 2003, 4:24 PM
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different strokes, different folks.
What I mean to say is... TWIGHT! and MESSNER!1
Purist elitists rock domes.
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climbingjunky
Oct 16, 2003, 4:29 PM
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SHARMA! :)
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andy_lemon
Oct 20, 2003, 12:37 AM
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Hmmm... Lance Lowery and Jeff Taylor, Tim Powers, Jim Thurmond, Kris Hampton, Jake Harden, Jody Burton, Jim Moers... probably a couple others I left off.
Basically anybody that has taught me anything that has to do with climbing. I can't say that Chris Sharma, Dave Graham, John Gill, John Long, etc. have ever taught me anything personally. I really don't know where some of you are getting your lists? I mean, isn't the guy that showed you how to tie in more influential then seeing some guys picture in a mag? Shoot... talk to anyone on my list and they will climb with you tommorrow. Can't say as anyone else can do that with the people on their list... except for Ammon's wife.
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curt
Oct 20, 2003, 1:52 AM
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Many of the responses to this thread are really good. Hillary is perhaps the only "climber" who is truly famous among the general population. Fritz Wiessner is another good candidate. However, it is hard to deny that John Gill has been the "most influential" figure in climbing.
The entire concept of striving for ultimate climbing difficulty and training specifically for climbing, comes from Gill. Caldwell, Sharma, and all the rest of us are merely following in Gill's footsteps.
Curt
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rrrADAM
Oct 20, 2003, 10:36 AM
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rrradam moved this thread from US - MidWest to General.
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iamthewallress
Oct 20, 2003, 4:57 PM
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iamthewallress moved this thread from General to Climbing History & Trivia.
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climbersoze
Dec 31, 2003, 9:54 PM
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How about Harding? Bridwell? Whittaker? Mallory, Robbins, Long, Lowe... the list of names go on and on when I think of the greats. As far as the influence... here is my rationale
Whittaker - was the man behind REI - affordable gear for any/everyone
Long - has anyone ever heard of probably the most famous series of books in climbing?
Mallory - ummm "Because it is there"
As far as Harding, Bridwell, Robbins.... take a look at their resumes.
Alex Lowe - I just wanted to be him before his tragic ski trip.... IMO the greatest all-around American Mtneer ever.
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dee
Feb 12, 2004, 8:15 PM
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Fred Beckey, Layton Kor and Russell Walling
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dee
Feb 19, 2004, 8:26 PM
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On second thought I will submit Edward Whymper, Layton Kor and Lynn Hill (go Lynnie).
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joe
Feb 19, 2004, 9:00 PM
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influencing climbing as a whole? you definately couldn't pin it down to one person, not even twenty.
as for my personal climbing, i'd have to say my friends.
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din
Feb 19, 2004, 9:07 PM
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tom brokaw, duh.
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mtnjohn
Feb 19, 2004, 9:09 PM
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"Who has influenced climbing the most ?"
ME!
I have done more for climbing than any other person. Ever.
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deleted
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Feb 19, 2004, 9:15 PM
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I think the most influential person in climbing is Climbing magazine.
Not a joke, think about it for a second.
The original poster said Dean Potter. Obviously the poster is someone who just started climbing in the last few years when dean potter has been getting the most amount of coverage in the rags. Certainly, he's done some great stuff to deserve the recognition, but in no way would he be considered one of the most influential people in climbing...he's not even 40. Anyone who said sharma also...
Climbing magazine has affected more of these responses than anything else...climbing magazine is the most influential person in climbing.
If you really want to nail down a person, you have to specify a period of time. Underhill for the 20s. Weissner for the 30s and 40s. Harding or Hillary for the 50s. Definitely Chouinard for the 60s. Who knows for the 70s. Maybe Mugs Stump for the 80s. And it's too early to pick someone for the 90s. Those are the visionaries who've shown that the impossible, as humans always seem to prove, is in fact possible. Anyone who doesn't deserve that description doesn't deserve the recognition.
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joe
Feb 19, 2004, 11:35 PM
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In reply to: Ammon McNeely
definately influenced my climbing tons. probably one of the top five aid/speed climbers on the continent. bro4lyfe.
charlie porter (took rurps and copperheads to the next level)
frank sacherer (freeing yosemite aid lines in the 60s)
george lowe (canadian rockies, little cottonwood)
greg lowe (many pre-1970 5.11+ routes)
jimmy dunn (for still being a bad ass)
on and on and on...
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dynoguy
Feb 19, 2004, 11:40 PM
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My vote goes out to Lynn Hill. She shattered gender and difficulty boundaries.
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hallm
Feb 20, 2004, 12:15 AM
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Unless I am remembering incorrectly, Gullich died from driving too fast on the Audobon.
And I think John Salathe certainly deserves a mention here. I also second Robert Underhill Jr., who introduced roped climbing to North America.
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ipsofacto
Feb 20, 2004, 12:16 AM
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23456789
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crag
Feb 20, 2004, 1:06 AM
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In reply to: In your opinion, who has been the most influential climber of all time ?
Of all time – you would, I think, have to go back to the 1800’s in Europe somewhere, I do a little digging and you could probably come-up with a couple of names. Here in the US though I’d take a long hard look at those dirt bags that hung around Yosemite a couple years back, Robbins, Pratt, Harding, Frost, etc. Along with an iron smith form Santa Cruz they sure did a lot for modern climbing here in the US.
One guy that stands out not necessarily for his climbing but for his invention or thievery, (Ok! so he did actually buy a couple of units form Greg’s brother) again depending who you talk to, is Ray Jardine or would it be Mark Vallance, founder of Wild Country, for his foresight in purchasing the rights from Ray, a friend, to make the units still this day as we know them – Friends.
I like the idea of Jon Gill, but we shouldn’t forget Rob Murray and John Sherman the Verm-inator. John Bachar, John Long and Lynn Hill certainly deserve our attention especially Lynn. Her achievement on the Nose is unsurpassed even to the likes of a Dean Potter, another front runner of our time. My heart goes out to Wolfgang & Dano two very bright lights doused before their time, think of were they - were we would be today.
One a more Global scale Mallory & Hillary certainly rank among the highest especially Hillary. I believe though if you say Hillary you have to say Norgay afterwhich there is Messner who had a huge influence on mountaineering.
Nicole, Graham, Sharma and others for their explosive power and ability to constantly set the bar higher, but then again isn’t that what the climbers did before them?
Finally I’d like you to consider the local guy, the guy without praise except form his beer drinking buddies went out every weekend and developed a local crag just for the pure enjoyment of it.
Cheers,
Crag
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jv
Feb 20, 2004, 2:30 AM
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In reply to: In your opinion, who has been the most influential climber of all time ? Just wanted to get some opinions out there, I might write a paper on this or something, and wanted to get some ideas! thanks :D In my opinions it is Dean Potter, he's done alot of outrageous new things, what do YOU think??
What has Potter done that is outrageous and new? More like taking some well established pursuits (free soloing, roped soloing, speed ascents) to the next level. More importantly, how has Potter influenced climbing "the most." Don't leave us hanging.
JV
P.S. See the last thread on this topic a couple of weeks ago for my opinion, if interested.
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okinawatricam
Feb 20, 2004, 2:39 AM
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Wolfgang Gulich, is pretty phenominal. When he was criticize about free climbing standarts by Messner, who said free climbers could use their skills in the high mountains, he put up Ridders of the Storm in Paagonia.
He cam within two pitches of freeing the Nose twop decades before the route went free. He didn't put nearly has much time intoit either.
Lynn Hill has definately broken some Gender barriers and showed extreme talents for climbing. But Some other great women have done great things to. Some are much more rounded than Ms. Hill too. Ice Mountaineering, rock, and aid all need to be mixed together to truly be well rounded.
Alex Lowe would be a good candidate for this title, but I am not sure one climber could fit this shoe.
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rockitjeff
Feb 20, 2004, 3:19 AM
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i second DEE's vote of Layton Kor and Fred Becky (can't give Walling the nod, tho...
Fred Becky 'cause he's showing us old guys how to dirtbag at 83.
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polarwid
Feb 20, 2004, 3:30 AM
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Messner, Kor, Beckey...Lowe, Tackle, Hill
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tanslacks
Feb 20, 2004, 3:32 AM
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Ok, what about all the Brits? Bonnington, Scott and too many to name. They climbed like men and drank like fish They are my idols (hick) :wink:
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moss1956
Feb 20, 2004, 3:51 AM
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I wonder who had the idea of using chocks to protect a climb instead of pitons. Who built the first cam? Who came up with the idea of sport climbing?
Who made bouldering popular?
Big walls, and trudging up 25,000 ft peaks certainly gets attention, but it is not what the bulk of climbers do. Certainly athletes influence people, but...
none of those athletes would be influencing people if their particular brand of rock sport existed.
In terms of sheer numbers, probably whoever had the idea of abseiling with gear instead of wrapping the rope around your body.
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taalon
Feb 20, 2004, 4:04 AM
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The first protection i ever heard of was in UK by some guys that took Railroad nuts from along the rails that rail road gangs dropped after replacing a rail. They attached a line and carabiner to it and thus was born the first NUT lol... i do not remember where i read that but it was like late 1800's or early 1900's i think it said. only problem was very few cracks and places to place them since they were only one size lol.
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joe
Feb 20, 2004, 11:04 PM
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In reply to: I wonder who had the idea of using chocks to protect a climb instead of pitons.
i was going to list doug robinson for his article about clean climbing, whose title escapes me at the moment. he got the ball rolling on probably the single most important change in climbing. it's amazing how the climbers of the day took it upon themselves to self govern the change, all within a couple of years.
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bobd1953
Feb 21, 2004, 1:12 AM
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In reply to: i was going to list doug robinson for his article about clean climbing, whose title escapes me at the moment. he got the ball rolling on probably the single most important change in climbing. it's amazing how the climbers of the day took it upon themselves to self govern the change, all within a couple of years.
That article was in the Chouinard catalog, I believe it was 1973 or 1974.
Royal Robbins bought nuts back from a trip he took to England in the late 60's
British climber were the first to use "nuts" and they did get them from railroad tracks on the way to crags.
Troll, in England was one of the first to make and sell them.
Tom Frost was mind begin the early nuts being make by Chouinard Equip.
Greg Lowe was one of the first people to design and produce camming gear in the US. I think he got the idea and a pro-type on a climbing trip to Russia in the early 70's. |
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thegreytradster
Feb 21, 2004, 1:19 AM
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It was the 72 chouinard catalog
http://climbaz.com/...ard72/chouinard.html
Still have mine!
Although some nuts were avalable for a few years before this, and a few of us made our own, they were mostly looked on as an oddity. This article on how to use them really marks the begining of "clean climbing" as the accepted ethic in the US.
One that has been missed is Joe Brown. A Brit who pushed to a new level and also cracked the "class" barrier. His exploits as written up in Mountain inspired on this side of the pond also.
Check out Cetotath (sp) Corner on pg 23 of the catalog. A very early 10 that he did (late 50's early 60's?) with what we would consider today "non existent" protection.
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raingod
Feb 21, 2004, 2:56 AM
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For better or worse the inventors of the artificial climbing wall. For bringing the masses to our sport
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oudinardin
Feb 21, 2004, 5:18 AM
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In reply to: In your opinion, who has been the most influential climber of all time ? Just wanted to get some opinions out there, I might write a paper on this or something, and wanted to get some ideas! thanks :D In my opinions it is Dean Potter, he's done alot of outrageous new things, what do YOU think?? |
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curt
Feb 21, 2004, 5:26 AM
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In reply to: One that has been missed is Joe Brown. A Brit who pushed to a new level and also cracked the "class" barrier. His exploits as written up in Mountain inspired on this side of the pond also. Check out Cetotath (sp) Corner on pg 23 of the catalog. A very early 10 that he did (late 50's early 60's?) with what we would consider today "non existent" protection.
A worthy climb--no doubt. But, that would merely make him a contemporary of Jim McCarthy.
Curt
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catra
Feb 23, 2004, 12:52 AM
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http://www.rocknrun.net/beckey.html
Enjoy!!!
Cheers, Catra
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curt
Feb 23, 2004, 1:19 AM
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In reply to: I have to agree there is no one person, its the accumulation of all of them and their desire to climb. I saw one mention Royal Robbins woo who... But along with that and it is sad to see one person was missed may his soul rest in peace. In reply to: Wolfgang Gulich, he helped to develep along with Royal Robins many of the ideas for equipment we all use today including our shoes and ropes binners ect.. They climbed when Hemp was all they had. My hats off to them all for their daring and trying. All tho it did lead to Wolfgangs Death from what i read. If only he had todays equipment back then.
And then some people wonder why I flamed this guy in the Beginner's Forum when he started posting incorrect definitions of climbing terms.
taalon, Wolfgang Gullich was NOT a contemporaty of Royal Robbins, who is easily old enough to be Gullich's father. Further, even Robbins climbed on nylon ropes--and I'm sure Gullich never even saw a hemp rope. Do you just pull this stuff out of your ass?
Curt
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vertical-rockrat
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Feb 23, 2004, 6:50 AM
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I think his post was more of a general post, mentioned some names that had influences. I would say if you are so knowledgeable why not share the knowledge, as sometimes people have knowledge but in the wrong order cronologically. Curt you might try a bit more tact and just correct them on chronological pieces they may not include or have wrong. However i would agree both the mentioned climbers were great, and one person who did for sure climb pre nylon would be if my chronology is correct.
Fritz Wiessner
Who helped to discover and climb the GUNKS, in 1935, and nylon ropes were not put in till Post WWII. Which WWII was i bleieve 1941-1944 i may slightly off because i was never good at remembering dates.
And to back up this statement here is a link to a history lesson i found http://www.mohonkpreserve.org/history.htm
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curt
Feb 23, 2004, 7:01 AM
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In reply to: I think his post was more of a general post, mentioned some names that had influences. I would say if you are so knowledgeable why not share the knowledge, as sometimes people have knowledge but in the wrong order cronologically. Curt you might try a bit more tact and just correct them on chronological pieces they may not include or have wrong. However i would agree both the mentioned climbers were great, and one person who did for sure climb pre nylon would be if my chronology is correct. Fritz Wiessner Who helped to discover and climb the GUNKS, in 1935, and nylon ropes were not put in till Post WWII. Which WWII was i bleieve 1941-1944 i may slightly off because i was never good at remembering dates. And to back up this statement here is a link to a history lesson i found http://www.mohonkpreserve.org/history.htm
Fritz Wiessner is someone who I knew personally. Did you--or are you just spraying?
Curt
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vertical-rockrat
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Feb 23, 2004, 7:17 AM
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So are you saying i have to know the person to praise them for their contributions to climbing?! I was stating that he was a person who climbed pre-nylon ropes and thot he was a great asset to the community. If this some how offends you to have me think hes a great climber then say so. I never said i knew him but with how you always tear apart what others say i desided i would post a link to a artical on the net that backs up my statement. Are you offended now that i backed up what i stated?
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curt
Feb 23, 2004, 7:27 AM
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In reply to: So are you saying i have to know the person to praise them for their contributions to climbing?! I was stating that he was a person who climbed pre-nylon ropes and thot he was a great asset to the community. If this some how offends you to have me think hes a great climber then say so. I never said i knew him but with how you always tear apart what others say i desided i would post a link to a artical on the net that backs up my statement. Are you offended now that i backed up what i stated?
First of all, use the goddam spellcheck because it is hard enough to sort through your meaningless drivel. Beyond that, are you really determined to defend someone who didn't realize that Gullich and Robbins were from different eras? Furthermore, I am saying that the history of modern climbing is something that I have lived--and unless you can claim the same--I will discount your contributions accordingly.
Curt
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vertical-rockrat
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Feb 23, 2004, 7:54 AM
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FYI the spell checker is not working at least when i tried it would not work. And the original post was Who has influenced climbing the most so i stated who i thot was a big influance, and now you seem to want to toot your own horn or something i am not sure. Please stay with the topic i never said you didn't meet the person but you did make a statement that sounded like i had no right to mention them because i do not know them in real life like you do. Sorry i put up a short history lesson you could not tear down but that is how it goes.
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curt
Feb 23, 2004, 8:03 AM
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Oh, that is so wrong. You only have no right to comment because you are an idiot. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Curt
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vertical-rockrat
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Feb 23, 2004, 8:24 AM
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How am i idiot CURT? please explain and please quit flaming me when i post it is rude in my opinion. The last few posts i made all you did was tell me im wrong and such but state nothing to back it up. However i had a link to back up my statement.
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dirtineye
Feb 23, 2004, 1:57 PM
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John Gill, for introducing (yuck) chalk, serioius training for climbing, and dynamic movement, and expanding the range of the possible in climbing far beyond what it was at the time.
Talk about pushing the limit, with the shoes of the day, in 1961, he did his hard version of the thimble.
Next would be whoever came up with decent climbing shoes.
Then you have to credit the guys who invented modern climbing rope and removable gear. Particularly Ed Jardin(sp?) for the cam, and Lubbens for all his great gadgets. Oh yeah, Mr Tri-cam, whoever you are, thanks.
In a nutshell, I'm saying that pushing technique and equipment forward are the most influential events, so those who did the pushing in these areas are the most influential.
Hey Curt, Balvenie single barrel, MMMM good.
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curt
Feb 23, 2004, 4:20 PM
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In reply to: How am i idiot CURT? please explain and please quit flaming me when i post it is rude in my opinion. The last few posts i made all you did was tell me im wrong and such but state nothing to back it up. However i had a link to back up my statement.
Hey VR, I have nothing against you personally and am not giving you a hard time about your choice of Wiessner--whether you met him or not. I posted this myself a couple of pages ago here:
In reply to: Many of the responses to this thread are really good. Hillary is perhaps the only "climber" who is truly famous among the general population. Fritz Wiessner is another good candidate. However, it is hard to deny that John Gill has been the "most influential" figure in climbing.
Curt
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dingus
Feb 23, 2004, 4:29 PM
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LOL! The closest Wolfie every likely got to a hemp rope was the hash pipe!
Robbins and Gullich... who knew???
DMT
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jv
Feb 23, 2004, 4:42 PM
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In reply to: The only reason I am giving you a hard time is because of your defense of "taalon" in making some of the most stupid and ill informed posts on this site--like the one about Wolfgang Gullich climbing on hemp ropes. Perhaps you would be better off by not getting get on the short bus with him.
I think that where one goes, the other must surely follow. I have desided that those are my thots.
JV
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climbsomething
Feb 23, 2004, 5:47 PM
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In reply to: I think his post was more of a general post, mentioned some names that had influences. I would say if you are so knowledgeable why not share the knowledge, as sometimes people have knowledge but in the wrong order cronologically.
Oh, and did you know that Alex Huber and Allen Steck both were rocked by the invention of the swami? (bonus points if you even know who A. Steck is)
And in case you haven't noticed, Curt DOES share his knowledge.
Now here's your snack pack, on to the short bus with you.
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brianinslc
Feb 23, 2004, 11:06 PM
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In reply to: On second thought I will submit Edward Whymper, Layton Kor and Lynn Hill (go Lynnie).
As far as "influenced", I'd have to go with Edward Whymper.
With"Scrambles Amongst the Alps", he brought and popularized climbing to the English speaking masses. And, not at a blue blood only level.
In modern daze, I'd have to go with Chouinard and Frost for their state of the art design of equipment and the move to clean climbing.
Ray Jardine for the now common active camming device.
Whoever at Boreal figured out that race car tire rubber might be more sticky.
John Gill for chalk, dynamic movement and bouldering as an end, not just a means.
Teton pioneers like Paul Petzoldt who figured out a teaching model (NOLS) for instruction of folks in the out of doors.
Bradford Washburn for his photo's and early trips which were a huge source of inspiration. Ditto his wife Barbara for her first woman's ascent of Denali...and...speakin' o' which...
Annie S. Peck and Fannie Bullock-Workman for an altitude competition which, as an aside, resulted in climbing being accepted in the mainstream as also a woman's sport. Without which there maybe would'na never been that cover shot in Climbing magazine...
Steck and Roper for bringing high brow climbing literature to the forefront, and for that 50 classics thing.
Jon Krakauer for Into Thin Air, which has resulted in most anyone I meet who finds out I climb inevetably asking, "have you climbed Everest"?
Harvey S. Carter for starting the longest running climbing magazine still in production.
John Muir.
David Browers.
Brian in SLC
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iamthewallress
Feb 24, 2004, 7:19 PM
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In reply to: Ed Jardin(sp?) for the cam, and Lubbens for all his great gadgets.
sp= Ray Jardine and Craig Leubben
Whereas I totally agree with Ray Jardine...not only for the cam, but also for being a pioneer in hangdogging to work a route in Yosemite, I'm not so sure that the Big Bro has revolutionized climbing in the same way.
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katydid
Feb 24, 2004, 8:23 PM
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I don't recall them being mentioned, but we can't forget Joe and Paul Stettner, who brought a whole new meaning to the word "bold" and who put up America's hardest route in the 1920's (it was the '20s, wasn't it?). (Stettner Ledges on Long's -- it didn't see a second ascent for twenty years). They did a bunch of other badass stuff, too, and did it for the love of climbing ... didn't ask for a single speck of publicity, and rarely said anything about having put up new routes.
k.
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warloc
Feb 24, 2004, 9:14 PM
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In Spain, Dani Andrada has definitely been the most influencing climber of all. He's been the king of motivation (and redpoints up to 5.14d) for years, and he's still sending imposible routes madly-hypermotivated of all styles as if he was trying his first 5.13
Have fun with your climbing :wink:
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dingus
Feb 24, 2004, 9:53 PM
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In reply to: As far as "influenced", I'd have to go with Edward Whymper. With"Scrambles Amongst the Alps", he brought and popularized climbing to the English speaking masses. And, not at a blue blood only level. In modern daze, I'd have to go with Chouinard and Frost for their state of the art design of equipment and the move to clean climbing. Ray Jardine for the now common active camming device.
I would suggest that Alfred Mummery is maybe the single most important person in all the sport. T'was he who first began climbing peaks for their difficulty alone and t'was he who did so without guides. He scandalized the BAC beause (gasp!) he was a tanner, not an aristocrat. He wrote trip reports and took lots of photos. In short, Mummery brought climbing to the common man and demonstrated that the common man could climb circles around the nobelmen and aristocrats who preceeded him.
Have to agree with the Chouinard / Frost angle, but that is an American perspective. Bonatti, Petzl and others may have a greater claim of influence world wide though.
And Jardine I simply cannot agree with. The Lowe clan in general must be credited with the invention of the SLCD along with a host of other innovations. Jardine hardly invented hang dogging either.
Cheers
DMT
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roninthorne
Feb 24, 2004, 10:47 PM
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In reply to: In your opinion, who has been the most influential climber of all time ? Just wanted to get some opinions out there, I might write a paper on this or something, and wanted to get some ideas! thanks :D In my opinions it is Dean Potter, he's done alot of outrageous new things, what do YOU think??
Ahhh the most influential climber... that's different... My first vote for non-climbers would have been Teddy Roosevelt, who listened to John Muir and gave us all these lovely National Parks and Forests, as well as the ability to create more. You have to admit that climbing would be much different if Yosemite had been bought up by a mining company...
Second would be Timothy Leary, whose research into LSD-25 and subsequent advocacy of "Turning On, Tuning In, and Dropping Out" helped foment the departure-from-norm that was the 70s, when most of the innovators who pushed us up over that unbreakable 5.10 line were first coming into their own, and when the parents of today's hot stars were forming the life ideals that helped sculpt their kids.
As for Dean... well, there is no doubt that he is very, very good... but how much influence has he really had, in the short time he's been in the public eye. Give him another decade, and I might tend to agree. But he's gonna have to take a back seat to Lynn for a long, long time beyond that.... she is a GODDESS.... IMHO.
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piton
Feb 25, 2004, 2:14 PM
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giving someone sh!t over a history timeline just shows that the people who you say influenced really haven't influenced you at all. now do you think Fritz would say "no you idiot". more than likely kindly state i think you a wrong.
my vote goes to Thom Scheuer
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brianinslc
Feb 25, 2004, 3:17 PM
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In reply to: I would suggest that Alfred Mummery is maybe the single most important person in all the sport. T'was he who first began climbing peaks for their difficulty alone and t'was he who did so without guides. He scandalized the BAC beause (gasp!) he was a tanner, not an aristocrat. He wrote trip reports and took lots of photos. In short, Mummery brought climbing to the common man and demonstrated that the common man could climb circles around the nobelmen and aristocrats who preceeded him.
Yeah but, hard to pin it on one guy. Joe Brown in that catagory too, much later. But Mummery paved the way...good angle.
In reply to: Have to agree with the Chouinard / Frost angle, but that is an American perspective. Bonatti, Petzl and others may have a greater claim of influence world wide though.
Perspective. Interesting to note the differences in the editions of "On Rock and Snow" vs "On Ice and Rock and Snow" by Rubberfat. Some of the bigger differences seem to be Chouinard/Frost items...
In reply to: And Jardine I simply cannot agree with. The Lowe clan in general must be credited with the invention of the SLCD along with a host of other innovations. Jardine hardly invented hang dogging either.
Credit where credit is due. The Lowe device, perhaps based on Abalakov's constant logrithmic spiral, wasn't going anywhere. So, as far as "influence" on a large number of folks, my first cams weren't LAS, they were Wild Country. I think Jardine took something and ran with it, much to everyone's benefit.
Popularized vs invented. Maybe that's the diff. When I ask myself which had a bigger influence on MY climbing, with regard to active camming devices, I think Wild Country, hence Jardine. Not that I don't appreciate the groundwork laid by Greg Lowe as well as Footfangs, Snargs, etc. Maybe, Greg influenced Ray...so...therefore...
T'was Abalakov all along...
Brian in SLC
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dingus
Feb 26, 2004, 3:14 PM
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In reply to: T'was Abalakov all along... Brian in SLC
Nice work.
Someone mentioned Muir. No one mentioned Ruskin, who romantisized the Alps and encouraged people to get back to nature and climb, away from the Industrial Revolution of the mid-1800's in England. Though the Whymper tragedy dampened his enthusiasm for climbing the influence remains.
Check on the Jardine thing. Point taken. My first cams were G-1 Wild Country Friends too. Still have a few of them.
DMT
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camhead
Feb 26, 2004, 3:32 PM
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no one has mentioned Stallone yet? His massive biceps legitimized campusing and dynamic movement, paving the way for John Gill. His innovative use of the bolt gun singlehandedly kickstarted the sport revolution. Most importantly, in the movie Cliffhanger he instructed Gullich with a hemp rope, which is probably where the previous statement came from. Ron Kauk owes a lot to Stallone as well.
Climbing was suffering in a slump until this "John Rambo" came along and revolutionized it with his vigilante "loose cannon" ethics. We owe a lot to him. he is a one man army of climbing mayhem.
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shortfatoldguy
Mar 14, 2004, 6:48 PM
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^^Camdude, I think Olevsky stole that from Ben Franklin. It should be amended to say "...and a representative republic is when the lamb is packing a .40 S&W with two spare mags."
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harihari
Mar 22, 2004, 4:58 AM
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William Wordsworth. English Romantic poet 1770-1850 or so. Wrote "The Prelude" (which has a section on walking and scrambling in the high Alps).
This guy was largely responsible for introducing (to the English-speaking world) the then-radical idea that the human experience of raw (but magnificent) Nature could be an aesthetic one. Also hugely contributed to the idea that these intense personal experiences were an essential part of personal transformation, somethign whcih modern climbers again and again bring up.
Wordsworth, who lived in the Lake District and spent a lot of time scrambling and walking, got a a whole generation of people fascinated with the outdoors, and with wild and exotic places. Along with various of his German contemporaries who did more or less the same thing (E.g. Novalis), he not only got people outdoors, but showed us a way of thinking that made any kind of intense experience of nature a part of both personal development and connection with the natural world.
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elemeno
Apr 20, 2004, 4:02 AM
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Stallone sold me one of those star trek machines.
Reinhold is number one.
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irockclimb
Jul 24, 2004, 4:10 AM
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id saw Alex lowe or dean potter. i have great repsect for both of them
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jefffski
Jul 31, 2004, 8:38 AM
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i interpret influence to mean the people who brought us very idea of climbing. without their contributions perhaps people like Royal Robbins, Chouinard, Hill, Gullich, might never have started.
I'd have to say WHYMPER. his climb of the matterhorn was like man landing on the moon. he popularized the notion of climbing.
if i had to add a second name it would be HERZOG, whose book ANNAPURNA was read by millions.
A third would be HILLARY--the most famous climber of all time.
these men brought climbing into our lives.
All the others, as great as they may indeed be lived and some continue to live almost in obscurity to all those who don't climb.
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worleybird25
Jul 31, 2004, 1:19 PM
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JOHN SHERMAN!!!!!!! What has changed climbing more than anything else? I believe the answer is bouldering. With bouldering came John Sherman's V-system. Bouldering and the V-system have brought an enormous level of competition to the sport of climbing. THis competitive nature of climbing is what John Sherman regrets about his creation. In an interview on the triple crown video John Sherman says that he feels like Dr. Frankenstein, the man who created a monster that he himself could not destroy.
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jtme
Jul 31, 2004, 1:38 PM
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Robert Underhill
Glen Dawson
Jules Eichorn
Norman Clyde (in particular)
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trackhead
Jul 31, 2004, 1:53 PM
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Hillary, Tenzing.
Rheinhold.
Chouinard.
Beckey.
To name a few.
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bvb
Jul 31, 2004, 5:11 PM
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dumb question. the obvious answer is bvb.
now kindly STFU, noobs.
seriously though, i'd have to say it was some guy in a lab...the dude who invented perlon ropes, making it possible to safely take repeated falls.
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gambler
Jul 31, 2004, 6:35 PM
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Captain Granitic....nuff said
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curt
Jul 31, 2004, 6:45 PM
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In reply to: dumb question. the obvious answer is bvb. now kindly STFU, noobs.
Bob, you misread the topic.
It is not "Who has climbed under the influence the most." :wink:
Curt
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ikefromla
Jul 31, 2004, 7:04 PM
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In reply to: seriously though, i'd have to say it was some guy in a lab...the dude who invented perlon ropes, making it possible to safely take repeated falls. |
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glowering
Aug 6, 2004, 5:02 PM
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My opinion: Salathe. At least as far as rock climbing goes.
Before him it was usually about the summit. With the climb of Lost Arrow Chimney he made the statement it's not just about getting to the top. I view that climb as the birth of "rock climbing" vs. moutaineering.
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howlermonkey
Aug 7, 2004, 4:41 AM
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For me it was the French - I "had" to read Annapurna for a high school English class. Herzog, Lachenal, Terray, and Rebuffat. Later, it was another Frenchman (of sorts), Chouinard. But nothing and no one inspired me so much as my first view of El Capitan, driving into the Valley with my old man at the tender age of eight years. BTW, the root word of "hardman" is Harding, and Galen helped us all clean up our act.
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tcantor333
Aug 7, 2004, 8:51 PM
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This just like that question about the greatest rock band of all time, or , maybe the other one about the best Led Zepellin album, or possibly which "Doublemint Twin" is cuter.
I have to agree with those that speak of the legends of the sport, which Dean will one day be. But most influencial, try one of these: Shipton, Weissner, Mallory, Robbins, Harding, Chouinard, Herbert, Frost, Steck, Beckey, Rebuffet (ya know where the term gaston came from, right?) et al then Bridwell, Rowell, Long, Hill, Bachar, Sorensen, Hersey, Gullich, Kauk, Ament, Lowe, Roskelley, Unsoeld, Whittaker, Robinson, take your pick, and oh yeah don't forget that Messner guy or Peter Croft or Alex Lowe or a number of others that continue in a very long list of which many are left unmentioned. Shoot, I think if you study the history on these individuals and many others you'll find that what has influenced climbing the most is the spirit, determination, style, and love of the sport that are embodied by all of these individuals and drive climbers to success in general; Dean Potter included. Let's not discount the contributions of the many to emulate the acheivements of one, as great as those acheivements are. Now there's a research paper for ya.
Cheers!!!
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tcantor333
Aug 7, 2004, 9:59 PM
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Well, I guess the sport is an amalgam of the efforts of many.
If Stallone gets a vote than Clint Eastwood gets mine. The Eiger kicks A$$ on that little piece of choss in Cliffhanger.
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punk_rocker333
Aug 9, 2004, 11:51 PM
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Fred Beckey.
Over 1,000 first ascents and at 82 years old he still leads 5.12.
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areyoumydude
Aug 10, 2004, 12:00 AM
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In reply to: Fred Beckey. at 82 years old he still leads 5.12.
:roll:
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kachoong
Aug 10, 2004, 12:47 AM
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Royal Robbins
Don Whillans
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stevep
Aug 10, 2004, 6:16 PM
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In reply to: Fred Beckey. Over 1,000 first ascents and at 82 years old he still leads 5.12.
I have tremendous respect for the climbing accomplishments of Fred, who probably has more first ascents then anyone ever, but I'm pretty sure he's not leading 5.12 these days.
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bubbatolius
Aug 10, 2004, 6:57 PM
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Climbing is so broad that it is hard to pick one. So just to add to the growing list... Kurt Albert for defining the concept of freeclimbing and redpoint.
For me personally: Messner and Chouinard
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gambler
Aug 11, 2004, 12:39 AM
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In reply to: punk_rocker333 wrote: Fred Beckey. Over 1,000 first ascents and at 82 years old he still leads 5.12. I have tremendous respect for the climbing accomplishments of Fred, who probably has more first ascents then anyone ever, but I'm pretty sure he's not leading 5.12 these days. In reply to: I think he saw that SUV comercial where they added up class 3 rapids and class 2 rapids = class 5 |
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gambler
Aug 11, 2004, 12:40 AM
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oops I screwed up that quote thing again....doh
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dynamicpanda
Aug 11, 2004, 12:44 AM
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Probably Will Harton. I cant think of anybody that has done more for the sport of climbing than he has.
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vivalargo
Aug 18, 2004, 7:10 PM
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In my mind this is an easy question to answer: Royal Robbins. He set the table for everything that has followed these last 40 years. No doubt about it.
JL
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bobd1953
Aug 19, 2004, 10:32 PM
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JL wrote: In my mind this is an easy question to answer: Royal Robbins. He set the table for everything that has followed these last 40 years. No doubt about it.
JL
A sport as broad as climbing it would almost be impossible to anwser such a question. Personal choice is easy to anwser and seems to be the trend in this tread. Oliver Perry, Albert Ellingwood, Joe Brown, Don Whillans. John Stannard, Henry Barber, Ron Kauk, Walter Bonnati and so on would be my choices.
Each generation stands on the shoulders of the previous one.
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climb_plastic
Aug 19, 2004, 11:12 PM
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There's no doubt these people climbed and influenced climbing just for the love of it because they didn't do it for fame.....I've never heard of any of them.
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bobd1953
Aug 19, 2004, 11:40 PM
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In reply to: There's no doubt these people climbed and influenced climbing just for the love of it because they didn't do it for fame.....I've never heard of any of them.
That's sad.
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berserk
Aug 20, 2004, 12:24 AM
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Henry Barber (aka Hot Henry)....!?
Tobin Sorensen....!?
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bvb
Aug 20, 2004, 2:25 AM
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In reply to: William Wordsworth. English Romantic poet 1770-1850 or so. Wrote "The Prelude" (which has a section on walking and scrambling in the high alps)
if we're gonna get all literary n' stuff, let's not forget these guys: Auden's play "The Ascent Of F6", which is and was probably the best climbing play ever written, still rocks my world every time I read it.
And John Menlove Edwards kicked ass as a climber and a writer. "You Rock, You Heaviness" is hands down the best effort ever to express the basic, elemental attraction of climbing through poetry.
About 25 years ago, through interlibrary loan, I got the only copy of the JME anthology "Samson" that was in the US and not in private hands -- it came from the the library of congress! It was priceless. And they loaned it out! O God, the temptation to say i lost it, or it was stolen from my dorm room along with my bookbag, was horrendous......
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sbclimber
Aug 20, 2004, 3:03 AM
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maybe it is just b/c I love sierra granite soooo much, but I would have to say I think that John Muir has influenced modern day climbing the most(around these parts).
At least around Yosemite and further south in the Sierras. He established the attitude that these mountains and areas are truly cherishable.
He got the ball rolling on protecting some of the most beautiful scenery this country has to offer.
He was instrumental in getting the Sierra Club started in 1892.
I think Yvon Chouinard (spelling?) had it right when he named one of the most beautiful lines up one of the most beautiful rocks in the world after him, The Muir Wall on the SW face of El Cap.
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dood
Aug 20, 2004, 4:33 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: As far as "influenced", I'd have to go with Edward Whymper. With"Scrambles Amongst the Alps", he brought and popularized climbing to the English speaking masses. And, not at a blue blood only level. In modern daze, I'd have to go with Chouinard and Frost for their state of the art design of equipment and the move to clean climbing. Ray Jardine for the now common active camming device. I would suggest that Alfred Mummery is maybe the single most important person in all the sport. T'was he who first began climbing peaks for their difficulty alone and t'was he who did so without guides. He scandalized the BAC beause (gasp!) he was a tanner, not an aristocrat. He wrote trip reports and took lots of photos. In short, Mummery brought climbing to the common man and demonstrated that the common man could climb circles around the nobelmen and aristocrats who preceeded him. Have to agree with the Chouinard / Frost angle, but that is an American perspective. Bonatti, Petzl and others may have a greater claim of influence world wide though. Cheers DMT
All good choices. Might I suggest Hermann Buhl? It was he that came up with the idea of alpine style climbing in the Himalayas. He climbed 8000 meter peaks without oxygen when Messner was still a rugrat.
The Duke of the Abruzzi was also a huge influence in the alpine arena.
And let's not forget that the most amazing climb ever was Edward Norton's attempt on Everest in 1924. With nothing more than an ice axe he set an altitude record that stood for 30(?) years.
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kalcario
Aug 20, 2004, 5:31 AM
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Who has most influenced the sport of rock climbing as it is today? For free climbing...
John Gill
Ron Kauk
Patrick Edlinger
In that order.
Gill invented gymnastic movement on rock.
Kauk took that movement from the boulders to the cliffs, and was the first (and still the only!) boulder/free climb/big wall all-around virtuoso. Nobody before or since has been at the cutting edge of bouldering, free climbing and big walls all at the same time, which is mind boggling from today's perspective of specialization. He was also the biggest influence on...
Edlinger, who germinated Europe with that gymnastic movement and basically fathered limestone sport climbing as pursuit worthy of Olympic-level training, which is the crucible that has driven free climbing ever since.
My personal choice for most influential rock climber ever, the guy who bridged the gap between the Golden Age of Yosemite (from which, let's face it, modern rock climbing emerged), and the current era... drum roll please...
Jim Bridwell
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curt
Aug 20, 2004, 5:38 AM
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In reply to: Who has most influenced the sport of rock climbing as it is today? For free climbing... John Gill Ron Kauk Patrick Edlinger In that order.
Funny you would give top honors to John Gill (although I agree) since you relish in bashing everything related to bouldering at each opportunity.
Curt
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kalcario
Aug 20, 2004, 5:49 AM
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*Funny you would give top honors to John Gill (although I agree) since you relish in bashing everything related to bouldering at each opportunity.*
Influence and impact being 2 different things. Les Paul, for instance, had the most influence as an innovator, but Jimi Hendrix had far more impact applying that innovation.
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curt
Aug 20, 2004, 5:59 AM
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In reply to: *Funny you would give top honors to John Gill (although I agree) since you relish in bashing everything related to bouldering at each opportunity.* Influence and impact being 2 different things. Les Paul, for instance, had the most influence as an innovator, but Jimi Hendrix had far more impact applying that innovation.
OK, gotcha. So the boulderers innovate and then the sportclimbers try to emulate this, but instead inject heroin into their temples and die. That's a fair analysis. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Curt
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climb_plastic
Aug 20, 2004, 6:17 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: There's no doubt these people climbed and influenced climbing just for the love of it because they didn't do it for fame.....I've never heard of any of them. That's sad.
No...I think it's great! Climbing is not about getting fame.
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crag
Aug 20, 2004, 12:07 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: There's no doubt these people climbed and influenced climbing just for the love of it because they didn't do it for fame.....I've never heard of any of them. That's sad. No...I think it's great! Climbing is not about getting fame.
Yes it is great but it's still sad that you hadn't heard of any of them, (Bob D's point in the 1st place).
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bvb
Aug 20, 2004, 3:59 PM
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In reply to: Kauk took that movement from the boulders to the cliffs, and was the first (and still the only!) boulder/free climb/big wall all-around virtuoso.
joe while i agree that this is a very exclusive club, i humbly submit that you left a few folks out:
bill price
kevin worral
steve sutton
mike graham
all four of these guys were cutting edge wall climbers; free climbers (short/hard/free, long/hard/free, etc); and boulderers. and, as good all-arounders alwyas do, they practiced all three disciplines simultaneously.
and with worral, you can throw in the f.a. of the widow's tears for good measure...
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bobd1953
Aug 20, 2004, 4:09 PM
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In reply to: joe while i agree that this is a very exclusive club, i humbly submit that you left a few folks out: bill price kevin worral steve sutton mike graham all four of these guys were cutting edge wall climbers; free climbers (short/hard/free, long/hard/free, etc); and boulderers. and, as good all-arounders alwyas do, they practiced all three disciplines simultaneously. and with worral, you can throw in the f.a. of the widow's tears for good measure...
Yeah but Kauk took it a step farther, embraced sport-climbing, traveled and climbed at the highest level for many years. Amazing that he could be so good at so many disciplines for so-so long and be the nice guy that he is.
What about Dale Bard in that group?
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bvb
Aug 20, 2004, 4:41 PM
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yeah, bard, most definately. p.o. wall, transporter room, first or early ascents of all the hard valley free climbs; he's in the club.
ricky accommazzo would be another. not to mention the stuff he and tobin did in the alps -- really hard alpine shit.
and then there's tobin himself -- i might even pick him as the best all-rounder in history -- better than anybody, ever -- the gold standard in doing it all, and doing it at the highest and hardest levels.
the more you think about it, the more you recall the surplus of genuis-level all 'rounders who never sought or recieved much ink, and whom history is slowly forgetting.
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bobd1953
Aug 20, 2004, 5:07 PM
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In reply to: the more you think about it, the more you recall the surplus of genuis-level all 'rounders who never sought or recieved much ink, and whom history is slowly forgetting.
It is quite sad how new climbers care so little about history. How could a boulderer not know about John Gill, Bob Murray or Jim Holloway.
Climbers are so generic now.
I glad that I started climbing in the 1971. To me that era will alway be the golden era of free climbing.
Who remember Henry Barber on Wide World of Sports (American Sportmans) sea-cliff climbing with Pete Livesy. First time I thing rock climbing got major coverage on major tv station.
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dingus
Aug 20, 2004, 5:07 PM
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In reply to: the more you think about it, the more you recall the surplus of genuis-level all 'rounders who never sought or recieved much ink, and whom history is slowly forgetting.
ie. People who had little to no real influence on climbing.
Being the best at something doesn't automatically translate to 'influence.'
I'd also toss in Hot Henry Barber. Bouldering. Free climbing. Big Walls pushed free as can be. Grade V ice climbs. Legendary free solos. Plus he traveled extensively and shattered the existing free climbing standards almost whereever he went, exporting boldness and an uncompromising style.
Unfortunately the better part of his influence died about 20 years ago.
The greatest influence on climbing has been in the arena of gear. So you have to look to innovators like Chouinard, Cassin, and Frost and others.
The Lowe Clan rates pretty damn high to me. So does Ray Jardine in a current context.
DMT
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mingus
Aug 20, 2004, 5:26 PM
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In reply to: It is quite sad how new climbers care so little about history. How could a boulderer not know about John Gill, Bob Murray or Jim Holloway.
True Bob - but this is just an extension of most folks' historical ignorance in general. Most people have always cared little for history and it just seems to be getting worse. Even really recent history is completely lost on most.
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cadreamin
Aug 20, 2004, 5:30 PM
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Easy one...R. Jardine and R. Robbins! Who doesn't own nuts and cams. This opened endless amounts of climbing and not only that will allow it to remain climbable for a long time. The scars of "pre-clean" climbing are still obvious today. Think about todays climbing traffic and what well traveled routes would look like or better yet how short their life span would be.
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jv
Aug 20, 2004, 6:18 PM
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In reply to: Easy one...R. Jardine and R. Robbins! Who doesn't own nuts and cams.
I wonder how many new European climbers own nuts and cams now, and how many others who do own them leave them at home because there are so many routes that can be climbed without them. Even in the U.S. most climbers learn in the gym now, and first own a rack of draws.
Joe made a good point (!) by distinguishing influence from impact. You can't answer this question without precisely defining 'influence' and 'climbing.'
JV
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bvb
Aug 20, 2004, 6:30 PM
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In reply to: ie. People who had little to no real influence on climbing.
if you think tobin sorenson had little or no influence on climbing, you are wildly misinformed. the climbing he did had a great effect on his peers -- all "name-brand" climbers who have been mentioned in this thread as "influential.
In reply to: The greatest influence on climbing has been in the arena of gear. So you have to look to innovators like Chouinard, Cassin, and Frost and others.
yeah, as i mentioned on page one or two of this thread, the person/s who hd the single greatest impact on climbing were the people who invented the perlon kernmantle rope, which set the stage for everything that has happened since. but i think this discussion has evolved beyond that stage some time ago.
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bobd1953
Aug 20, 2004, 6:37 PM
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In reply to: Robbins embraced clean climbing, but Chouinard brought the idea here from England, improved on it with his design and manufacture of stoppers and hexes, and supplied most climbers with gear for twenty years.
That's not true, Robbins was the one who bought back nuts and climbed with Joe Brown and Don Whillians while in England. Tom Frost should be credited with a number of great designs while at GPIW.
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kalcario
Aug 20, 2004, 7:06 PM
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*joe while i agree that this is a very exclusive club, i humbly submit that you left a few folks out:
bill price
kevin worral
steve sutton
mike graham*
those dudes were down4lyffe but with the possible exception of Price in wall climbing, were'nt actually pushing the envelope the way Kauk was, Gullich was quoted in the 80's as saying that Kauk was the best rock climber in the world
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bobd1953
Aug 20, 2004, 7:14 PM
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In reply to: Gullich was quoted in the 80's as saying that Kauk was the best rock climber in the world
I would agree that he was the best all-round climber at that time!
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dingus
Aug 20, 2004, 7:24 PM
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In reply to: if you think tobin sorenson had little or no influence on climbing, you are wildly misinformed. the climbing he did had a great effect on his peers -- all "name-brand" climbers who have been mentioned in this thread as "influential.
I think Sorenson did not influence climbing the most or anything remotely like it.
DMT
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boku
Aug 20, 2004, 7:31 PM
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I'm voting for Eli Whitney.
:?
I dunno if he climbed, but without his early development of interchangable parts and mass production, climbing gear would be much more expensive, and only the idle rich could afford the leisure time required to do much serious climbing.
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bvb
Aug 20, 2004, 7:54 PM
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In reply to: I think Sorenson did not influence climbing the most or anything remotely like it.
well, ok.
aside from the forum moderators and the board admins, there are no thought police around here. you are entitled to your opinion, however misguided and ill-informed it may be.
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bobd1953
Aug 20, 2004, 8:04 PM
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To really make this interesting we should break this down into area/region.
Yosemite, Colorado and the Gunks. Layton Kor, John Stannard etc...
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dingus
Aug 20, 2004, 8:05 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I think Sorenson did not influence climbing the most or anything remotely like it. well, ok. aside from the forum moderators and the board admins, there are no thought police around here. you are entitled to your opinion, however misguided and ill-informed it may be.
Thanks Bob! And you of course are entitled to be the crabby old man on the corner, peevishly snapping out the Truth's of the Universe in a sentence or two.
But I totally respect your opinion, in this thread and elsewhere. As I do Curt's, and Joe's and Aaron's.
Cheers
DMT
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curt
Aug 20, 2004, 9:29 PM
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In reply to: To really make this interesting we should break this down into area/region. Yosemite, Colorado and the Gunks. Layton Kor, John Stannard etc...
Yeah, that should probably be a requirement. There are a lot of regional differences appearing in the responses posted here.
For the Gunks, I think Stannard wins hands down. Not only was he the best climber of his generation, he was also the driving force behind clean climbing on the east coast--much as Robbins was out west.
Curt
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yosemite
Aug 20, 2004, 10:28 PM
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oregonalpine
Aug 21, 2004, 6:13 AM
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I'd say either Anatoli Boukreev or Alex Lowe, both for obvious reasons and the fact that both weren't just good climbers, they were great people.
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crag
Aug 23, 2004, 2:43 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: To really make this interesting we should break this down into area/region. Yosemite, Colorado and the Gunks. Layton Kor, John Stannard etc... Yeah, that should probably be a requirement. There are a lot of regional differences appearing in the responses posted here. For the Gunks, I think Stannard wins hands down. Not only was he the best climber of his generation, he was also the driving force behind clean climbing on the east coast--much as Robbins was out west. Curt
Bob
What about influences in PA?
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dingus
Aug 24, 2004, 3:14 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: To really make this interesting we should break this down into area/region. Yosemite, Colorado and the Gunks. Layton Kor, John Stannard etc... Yeah, that should probably be a requirement. There are a lot of regional differences appearing in the responses posted here.
Regional differences in who has influenced climbing the most? That is pretty funny when you think about it. I mean, if there are? Regional differences? Then NO ONE has influenced climbing the most.
DMT
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timstich
Aug 24, 2004, 3:25 PM
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It seems to me that climbers who had prolific writing output were in the end more influencial, even though their accomplishments might not stand above their peers if put side by side.
So would that be influence peddling?
I don't particularly like elevating anyone above all others. Even the best climbers would be better served by being described as "one of the most influencial" rather than "the most influencial."
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actionfigure
Aug 24, 2004, 3:27 PM
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I think Sharma and Graham have influenced more numbers of young climbers. At least american kids. Ask a strong young sport climber who Warren Harding is.
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dingus
Aug 24, 2004, 3:37 PM
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dingus
Aug 24, 2004, 3:38 PM
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In reply to: I think Sharma and Graham have influenced more numbers of young climbers. At least american kids. Ask a strong young sport climber who Warren Harding is.
Or better yet, ask most any climber at all who Abalokov... ignorance is not limited to the young and stupid. The assumption in this thread that the most influencial person on the sport of climbing will be American seems faulty from the start.
Just because you don't know about someone doesn't mean they didn't have influence on you. Fame and influence are not necessarily the same things.
DMT
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timstich
Aug 24, 2004, 3:40 PM
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In reply to: I think Sharma and Graham have influenced more numbers of young climbers. At least american kids. Ask a strong young sport climber who Warren Harding is.
It's me, you little know-nothing punks!
http://www.huecotanks.org/...es/WarrenHarding.jpg
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