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roflcakes
Jan 29, 2007, 4:50 PM
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I dont get the V scale it dont make sence, V2 is 5.12, then V16 is 5.24?
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bizarrodrinker
Jan 29, 2007, 4:57 PM
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First, a V4 supposedly would roughly translate to 5.12. IN my experience I have found that the two grading systems have NOTHING in common AT ALL.
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sevrdhed
Jan 29, 2007, 5:19 PM
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I agree. It's really hard to compare the V-grades of 2 different bouldering areas, much less the relative comparison of V-grades to YDS grades. The usual conversion is that the V-scale relates to the crux of the route. So, a 5.12 may have 100 feet of v1 climbing, up to a V4 crux.
There used to be a grade chart on here that compared YDS grades to V-grades. The closest I could find to that is here:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...Conversions_529.html
But again, grades are so relative to style, strength, height, length, area, etc. that it will be practically impossible to develope a grade scale that converts neatly.
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munky
Jan 29, 2007, 6:29 PM
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This is all you need to know.
In a gym:
V0-V3- Beginner, Easy, Fat ass, Weak, short, recreational
V4-V6- Intermediate, Average, You can climb lots of stuff outside and have fun, your strong compared to your friends but compare yourself against a teenager in shape who is a climber and you suck.
V7- and up- Your a good climber, fairly strong, probably injury ridden unless your under 23 and might get your ass kicked on anything V3 and up outside
Outside ratings:
V0-V3 Do all of these at an area before you do any others. These are more than likely the first problems that went up and therefore the most classic, proudest, least contrived lines. And they probablly will feel hard. After all bouldering is hard. Cruxes are suppose to be hard
V4-V7 Depending on the area these can be super hard, moderate to hard, or soft. My experience has shown me that areas/problems that were developed years ago are stiff for the grade (like they should be) V5 should be hard as shit. Areas that are new or problems that were put up within 2-3 years are supper soft. V5's can feel like cruxing on a 5.10 trad route.
V8-V10 Same as above with the older the harder the newer the softer. Expect a problem in this range that was put up 15 or more years ago to be very hard.
V11 and up- These are hard no matter what. Unless of course you are a teenager then anything isn't that hard. If you can consistently send V11 or higher you can climb just about anything that you decide to focus on. V11-V16 are all the same in terms of difficulty if they are true to the rating.
I hope this helps. Keep this dear to your heart because everyone knows the ratings are the most important factor when deciding what you should climb. 
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sierrablaircoylew
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Jan 29, 2007, 7:16 PM
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sevrdhed
Jan 29, 2007, 7:39 PM
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Sure they do. They're both double digits. And they're both hard.
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thomasribiere
Jan 29, 2007, 7:40 PM
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^ nice first post, congratulations...
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munky
Jan 29, 2007, 8:08 PM
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Sierrablair whatever the hell your name is. News Flash Bishop ratings are wayyy soft. Anyone who has been climbing awhile and well traveled knows that anything in the V11 to V16 range is damn hard if the rating is legit. As far the difference between an V11 and a V16 that is very subjective based on things such as fear factor (ie. Evilution) height dependency, conditions, how a climber feels that day. Come out to North Carolina or anywhere in the Southeast any see how many boulder problems are rated harder than V11. Maybe 1 or 2. Then try them and get your ass kicked. Then go back to the Mandala, Buttermilker, Spectre or any of those V-hard problems and see the difference for yourself. Absolutely none. That's why people like James Litz poop all over V13-14 boulder problems out west because they are the same as the V11's back home. V11-V16 same damn grade V-Fucking Hard!!
Now Go kill yourself!!
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dpinto15
Jan 29, 2007, 8:17 PM
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Also the rating of the climb can differ from climber to climber. If i am great on crimps and smaller moves, a guy who is great at dynos and awsome on slopers might do dynamic sloper problems eaiser than I and vice vera. The no rating system is perfect cause everyone has different strengths and weaknesses.
The V however i have been told was an old slang term from the roped climbers and called the boulers Vermen, and the rated the climbing in Vs
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bizarrodrinker
Jan 29, 2007, 8:18 PM
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First of all, you may need to chill out a bit. There is no need to get heated on such a trivial subject.
Secondly, where is this new V16? I have still yet to hear of a v15 whose grade wasn't called into question.
Thirdly (and perhaps most importantly) any opinions a person has to offer on grades they haven't climbed (other than "jeez that looks rediculously hard) should be discarded as purely speculation and never given a second thought.
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perionychium
Jan 29, 2007, 8:27 PM
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bizarrodrinker wrote: First, a V4 supposedly would roughly translate to 5.12. IN my experience I have found that the two grading systems have NOTHING in common AT ALL.
Same here. For a long time I have been confused by the grading scale and have searched for an adequate translation. I cannot deny that bouldering may be more challenging for me (in respect that the moves are more dynamic and substantially more aggressive), but I cannot really find a comparison in the grading system. Therefore, I choose to adopt a Chris Sharma approach telling myself that, "This climb is V-hard."
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munky
Jan 29, 2007, 8:31 PM
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Just sent Full Monty at Hueco. V12. Hard as shit. Looked at Crown of Aragon. V13. Hard as shit. Same damn thing. Man up. Punch the clock. Go to work. And eventually collect your paycheck. Yea somethings will take forever if you'll ever get it. But V11-V16 are all the same. HARRRD! The difference is that some people can climb V11 all day long. Those are the true sickos. The ones that can climb those in a few sessions, at every area, consistently. V16 doesn't exist. I'm just using what the mags have said about possible new V16s such as Wheel of Life (more like V-hard for a long time or 5.15) and D Woods Ode to the Modern Man. You know, I don't buy that crap. Keep it plain and simple. V11 and up hard as shit. Nobody should be able to flash V11 unless they can do 50 quarter pad one arm pull-ups starting from an open handed grip while hanging and turn it into a crimp on their first pull up. Then maybe they could flash V11. V11 and up should be wicked hard, sharp, thin, small holds far apart, and VERY technical. Not just power.
End of discussion
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bizarrodrinker
Jan 29, 2007, 8:33 PM
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Yeah I tend to walk up to rocks and give a look and if it looks doable, I give it a shot. Then consult the guide to see what grade it was, and if I have outdone myself or if there was good reason that I got nowhere on it.
Roped climbs I consult the guide first because I am out to climb, not fall.
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bizarrodrinker
Jan 29, 2007, 8:34 PM
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Then you have more to say on the subject than I do. I don't climb that hard. I consider myself average on the scale of climbers.
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perionychium
Jan 29, 2007, 8:41 PM
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bizarrodrinker wrote: Roped climbs I consult the guide first because I am out to climb, not fall.
I do the same thing! I guess that the issue with the grading system is that grades are so subjective. I remember flipping through the guidebook in "New England Bouldering" thinking, "This can't be a V4, it is just way to hard!"
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fluxus
Jan 29, 2007, 9:31 PM
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roflcakes wrote: I dont get the V scale it dont make sence, V2 is 5.12, then V16 is 5.24?
I think its best to avoid direct comparisons of this type. The V sacle tends to be progressive, that is, the difference between V7 and V10 is significantly greater than the difference between V0 and V3.
Also, the V scale and the YDS are measuring different things.
Another point to consider is that over the past 12 years or so both grading scales have changed at the higher end. For example, 5.14a seems to have gotten harder, while at the same time V9 and up have gotten a little easier.
What I think does work well is to use the V scale as a way of thinking about cruxes or individual moves / sequences on a climb.
so for example (depending on where you live) you could make this comparison:
On a 5.10 the hardest move you are likely to encounter is V1-
On a 5.11d the hardest move you are likely to encounter is V2
on a 5.12d the hardest move you are likely to encounter is V5
on a 5.13c the hardest move you are likely to encounter is V7
This is a rule of thumb for short bouldery rotes, on longer climbs the moves won't be as hard for the grade. Naturally, the comparison will change from reigon to reigon.
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munky
Jan 29, 2007, 9:36 PM
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That's the point. V4 is relatively hard. Especially a proud highball that was put up in the early 80's. We are talking about cruxing on a 5.12a way off the deck looking at a ground fall if you blow it. I guess the point Ive been trying to make is this: Don't take grades too seriously. Realize its a boulder PROBLEM for a reason, meaning it should be a problem for you to get to the top, and keep it simple. V0-3 kinda hard, fun, V4-V8 hard, might piss you off, might do quickly and should be very proud, V9 and up: Hard as shit and if you keep pulling moves that hard for a very long time well then you're probably young and haven't been injured yet or you're very lucky and I wish I had the same body as you. If you've climbed at least 100 routes (trad or sport) mid 5.11 and up, you could probablly send V9 and under if you really worked on it. Some might spank you and you might never get, others might take a few years, and others might come in a season.
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jt512
Jan 29, 2007, 9:58 PM
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roflcakes wrote: I dont get the V scale it dont make sence, V2 is 5.12, then V16 is 5.24?
Yeah, that V-scale is almost impossible to understand. The higher the number, the harder the problem. I just can't get my head around it.
Jay
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thomasribiere
Jan 29, 2007, 10:06 PM
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Yes, what not using the French Oysters cotation? The 00 are the biggest, the 6 the smallest.
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cintune
Jan 30, 2007, 1:09 AM
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dpinto15 wrote: The V however i have been told was an old slang term from the roped climbers and called the boulers Vermen, and the rated the climbing in Vs
Not quite. John Sherman, aka "Vermin," came up with the V-scale, then everyone else took off with it. History class dismissed.
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sidepull
Jan 31, 2007, 2:31 AM
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munky wrote: That's the point. V4 is relatively hard. Especially a proud highball that was put up in the early 80's. We are talking about cruxing on a 5.12a way off the deck looking at a ground fall if you blow it. I guess the point Ive been trying to make is this: Don't take grades too seriously. Realize its a boulder PROBLEM for a reason, meaning it should be a problem for you to get to the top, and keep it simple. V0-3 kinda hard, fun, V4-V8 hard, might piss you off, might do quickly and should be very proud, V9 and up: Hard as shit and if you keep pulling moves that hard for a very long time well then you're probably young and haven't been injured yet or you're very lucky and I wish I had the same body as you. If you've climbed at least 100 routes (trad or sport) mid 5.11 and up, you could probablly send V9 and under if you really worked on it. Some might spank you and you might never get, others might take a few years, and others might come in a season.
Wow. I mean the first post is an obvious troll, and then there's munky, noob spraylord spawn of Burt Bronson, who seems to be de-evolving the v-system to reinvent the B grading system. What a thread!!!
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curt
Jan 31, 2007, 2:38 AM
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Bscale4lyfe.....
Curt
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rjtrials
Jan 31, 2007, 3:38 AM
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munky wrote: . V16 doesn't exist. I'm just using what the mags have said about possible new V16s such as Wheel of Life (more like V-hard for a long time or 5.15) and D Woods Ode to the Modern Man. You know, I don't buy that crap. Keep it plain and simple.
The three or four proposed 8c+ problems have not been repeated OR downgraded.
munky wrote: Nobody should be able to flash V11 unless they can do 50 quarter pad one arm pull-ups starting from an open handed grip while hanging and turn it into a crimp on their first pull up.
When someone is able to flash or onsight at that level. 3 or 4 grades higher doesnt seem that difficult to project.
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munky
Jan 31, 2007, 2:01 PM
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Sidepull I have no idea what a troll is, other than those stupid funny looking toys a few years ago. But, I do know that you are retarded. I'm not trying to invent Gill's B scale but instead trying to add my 2 cents on a very complicated, evolving, and inflating grading system. A shift towards Gills scale would be a much needed improvement. After all, your climbing rocks that are generally under 20'. Lets keep it simple. Now, I know that your fat-ass desk jockeying job having can't possibly understand what its like to climb at a high level. But if you did you would understand that anything V11 and up is really hard and the difference between those problems is so minimal that many upper level climbers agree that they find certain V13 easier than V11 and vice versa. I've said it once and I'll say it again, V11 and up is damn hard and you just need to put the work into it. There is no real difference in terms of difficulty. Now, why don't you get off your ass sidepull and start climbing so you can understand.
Munky
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sidepull
Jan 31, 2007, 6:44 PM
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munk, you're going to be a joy to have around - in fact, I'm thinking of moving into a trailer park so that I can be surrounded by more people that demonstrate your level of thinking.
Sarcasm aside, I don't have much of a problem with your propositions, it's the fact that you seem incapable of communicating like a civil human being that bothers me. But I guess some people choose their handles as a shorthand for what we should expect from them both in terms of IQ and communication skills. Now go update your 8a scorecard.
(This post was edited by sidepull on Jan 31, 2007, 8:20 PM)
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