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calamity_chk
Apr 14, 2004, 3:23 AM
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In reply to: With Karl talking about bonking so much I`m starting to feel horny. Sorry, just caught up from page 4 of this thread after spending the last six days down at Arapiles climbing my heart out.
freudian slip or colloquial misinterp?
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timstich
Apr 14, 2004, 3:30 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: With Karl talking about bonking so much I`m starting to feel horny. Sorry, just caught up from page 4 of this thread after spending the last six days down at Arapiles climbing my heart out. freudian slip or colloquial misinterp?
No, Phil just thinks about that kind of stuff...a lot. That could be a safety issue there, Phil. Focussssss.
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bobd1953
Apr 14, 2004, 3:34 AM
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In reply to: Surely I'm not the only person on the face of the planet who's misunderestimated how much work is involved on their first "real" wall.
No there is about 50-100 people on this site who think or thought (about their abilties) the way you did.
I am not trying to hammer you or put you down. I respect your somewhat honest assestment of your skills or lack of them. Leading a handful of trad-pitches and jugging some aid routes really doesn't make you ready for a big-wall ascent. Reading books on anchors does not make you an expert on them and maybe, just maybe if you spend more time doing longer mutli-pitch routes you would have prepared yourself for the amount of effort it takes (gear placement, speed, setting proper rappel systems, proper eating, hydration etc...) to do them.
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curt
Apr 14, 2004, 3:36 AM
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In reply to: Curt, I .. :deadhorse: .. admit .. :deadhorse: .. that .. :deadhorse: .. I .. :deadhorse: ... shouldnt .. :deadhorse: ... have .. :deadhorse: .. been .. :deadhorse: .. there. (Tim - why do these smilies have to look so mean, can we have a deadhorse that looks less angry?) The point I was trying to make about gear placements and anchors is more semantics than anything. The last time that someone told me that I wasnt ready for a wall, their feedback was to work on gear, anchors, and organization. I naively misinterpreted the degree to which I needed to work on those things. The reason that I'm pointing it out isnt an attempt to justify my mistake. Again, falling 160' in what I fully expected to end in my death taught me that lesson much more effectively than lectures ever could have. The reason that I'm pointing it out is for fear of how the other ten of thousands of people reading this might interpret things. Surely I'm not the only person on the face of the planet who's misunderestimated how much work is involved on their first "real" wall. Personally, now that I have things to do over again (metaphorically speaking), I'll be doing long, easy routes in Eldo for a while.
Sorry if I pissed you off. I was merely trying to explain to you what I think Bob meant by his comment.
Curt
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moabbeth
Apr 14, 2004, 3:37 AM
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I have a question though....if I remember that pitch, it's more like a 120 ft pitch. Assuming you rapped from the anchors on your lead line, then eventually off the end of the rope, that means you still rapped a good distance on your rope before you came off it. And came to a blessed stop about 20 ft above your belayer? How much actual air did you take? Cause a full 160 ft air whipper would have messed you up something serious.
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squish
Apr 14, 2004, 3:45 AM
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In reply to: Bob, while I agree that I hadnt paid sufficient dues before getting on Moonlight. If I had been more willing to do countless more multi-pitch trad routes, then I likely would have experienced the incredible hypoglycemic fit that I had at those anchors.
Amber, who's to say that your epic bonk wouldn't have happened with the same consequences on any of those multi-pitch trad routes that you supposedly needed to have under your belt?
Just my opinion, but whether you gained your "epic handling" experience on a free route or an aid route shouldn't matter. I mean, we're talking 4 pitches here, never mind what's above: this accident effectively happened on a 4-pitch route.
I didn't originally want to post anything about your skills in relation to your goals, since that's something only you and your partners can assess, but you sound like you had the skills to at least mount an attempt. Topping out might have been iffy depending on your speed and endurance, but that has very little to do with the probability of having an accident. You could (and should) have climbed your 4 pitches and retreated safely to the ground. I don't think that it was necessarily "ambition and ego" that got you into trouble here. As Tim said, you weren't trying to press on.
You had what it takes to "try," but unfortunately, the only item that wasn't in your bag of tricks was experience with running out of gas. I don't know that you could gain that knowledge any other, potentially safer way. How else would you expect to find those limits?
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sinshan
Apr 14, 2004, 4:10 AM
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:robert:
Hey folks, I'm taking a second to chill and to celebrate the fact that some force of magic, God, will of nature or whatever you call it resulted in Amber's continued living and breathing, and in her wisdom to share this story with a broad audience so we can all figure out what the heck to make of it.
Got to say that I can relate to something Amber said early in the thread, about ease of acquiring information for routes on crags across the country resulting in people getting in over their heads. I think newbies especially take guidebooks too literally and lightly - - cause just a few years ago I was one of them. It only took a few two hour approaches that the guidebooks described as "10 minute hikes," and setting off on trad routes that I thought were 5.5's, but really were the 5.8x's to the left of my targeted route, to realize I had a lot to learn about routefinding, gauging climbs from the ground, and making climbing enjoyable rather then a survival stress fest minus the million dollar payoff.
Good climbers will always be pushing themselves, and it's only when things go wrong that we say "Maybe I wasn't ready. . ." well, that means different things for all of us. Whenever I'm laced up at the foot of a climb and I have doubts, I remember what my grandma used to say - - "Some folks have more confidence then common sense."
And usually that helps clarify for me whether I"m being an ass if I continue, or a dumbass if I don't.
peace out and many happy climbs - -
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alpnclmbr1
Apr 14, 2004, 4:34 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Bob, while I agree that I hadnt paid sufficient dues before getting on Moonlight. If I had been more willing to do countless more multi-pitch trad routes, then I likely would have experienced the incredible hypoglycemic fit that I had at those anchors. Amber, who's to say that your epic bonk wouldn't have happened with the same consequences on any of those multi-pitch trad routes that you supposedly needed to have under your belt? Just my opinion, but whether you gained your "epic handling" experience on a free route or an aid route shouldn't matter. I mean, we're talking 4 pitches here, never mind what's above: this accident effectively happened on a 4-pitch route. I didn't originally want to post anything about your skills in relation to your goals, since that's something only you and your partners can assess, but you sound like you had the skills to at least mount an attempt. Topping out might have been iffy depending on your speed and endurance, but that has very little to do with the probability of having an accident. You could (and should) have climbed your 4 pitches and retreated safely to the ground. I don't think that it was necessarily "ambition and ego" that got you into trouble here. As Tim said, you weren't trying to press on. You had what it takes to "try," but unfortunately, the only item that wasn't in your bag of tricks was experience with running out of gas. I don't know that you could gain that knowledge any other, potentially safer way. How else would you expect to find those limits?
This is my take on the event as well.
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epic_ed
Apr 14, 2004, 6:12 AM
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In reply to: I have a question though....if I remember that pitch, it's more like a 120 ft pitch. Assuming you rapped from the anchors on your lead line, then eventually off the end of the rope, that means you still rapped a good distance on your rope before you came off it. And came to a blessed stop about 20 ft above your belayer? How much actual air did you take? Cause a full 160 ft air whipper would have messed you up something serious.
Nope. Supertopo lists it as 180'. Another topo has it as 160'. It was the last pitch I lead when I was there last fall, and I seem to recall it was closer to 180'.
The prevailing theory that makes the most sense is that each piece of gear she hadn't yet clean acted at least to slow her down. It's likely that since she stopped only 15-20 ft above the belay that she ripped some gear on the way down.
Ed
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tim
Apr 14, 2004, 8:50 AM
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In reply to: I have a question though....if I remember that pitch, it's more like a 120 ft pitch.
only if you stop at the old/free anchors (single bolt). rebolted sling anchor is at 180'
In reply to: Assuming you rapped from the anchors on your lead line, then eventually off the end of the rope, that means you still rapped a good distance on your rope before you came off it.
about 10' is what the math works out to, and Amber's position was about 10' away from the belay when she started screaming about the end of the rope. with about 10' out on the bottom, that gives her 190' of rope out to play with. the ejecta from the non-multidirectional pieces up high (nuts) that I found at the base of the wall supports this idea, namely, her aiders jammed into the slot of the ATC that she still had rope running through, then the top-most multidirectional piece arrested the fall. A 160' fall on 190' of rope (or thereabouts), not even a factor 1 fall -- not nearly as forceful as you're thinking.
In reply to: And came to a blessed stop about 20 ft above your belayer? How much actual air did you take? Cause a full 160 ft air whipper would have messed you up something serious.
This was a full-length whipper, and unless my 60m rope shrank up (a LOT) that pitch was almost the full rope length. 180-20 = 160'
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gawd
Apr 14, 2004, 11:09 AM
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This is great to read about mistakes people make. The people who are flaming her need to be in a similar situation first before a comment like theirs is anything other then posing. Though I would like to comment that this mistake appears to lie in the hands of her partner as he was in theory the better skilled one to handle a route like this. Two additional comments, Moonlight is a beginners trade route and nothing more, there is nothing harder then C1 placements on the entire route, so kudos for the girl in attempting to learn the game in the BIG arena instead of some shitty little sandbox. Life will always become stagnet if we are afraid to reach out beyond our perceived potential and folow the path of the unintiated. Excuse cannot be made and should not be made both people involed need to take responsibilty for their action wheter right or wrong.
Two simple thongs that could have changed the whole day. Amber quite eating those sugar gels unles you are performing highly aerobic activity, they do not provide enough fuel for someone who is not used to working within their reserves. Eat whole foods.
ALWAYS rappel with an autoblock, it would have saved you, no doubt about that.
Moabbeth, you are a posuer quite trying to prove otherwise.
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crankingclimber
Apr 14, 2004, 2:50 PM
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Wow. So glad to hear that you are still with us. Reading your story chilled me to the bone. Congratulations to all who were involved who managed to make the day turn out alright in the end.
I've read the first 6 pages of posts, but not the rest, have to go to class unfortunately, so I apologise if I post something redundant or wrong in any way, but here's what I'm imagining happened:
She starts to rappel - Short end pulls through the belay device and she begins to free fall - As she falls the line still through her ATC, the longer line, is running down through all of her gear placements - She windmills her arms as you do during a fall like that - While windmilling her arms they got caught with the aiders/daisy as would happen becuase they would be floating up above her head - This was also when she got her arm caught in the lead rope going down through the pieces - She was falling past that part of the rope, it's forming a loop above her, atleast before it begins to come tight with the pieces placed in the crack, and she windmills her arm into it, gets tangled - The rope comes tight on the pieces in the crack, some of them may rip, one holds, her fall is caught.
WOW
This makes a little more sense than her arm getting caught on the shorter side of the rope because that side of the rope essentially becomes the brake side with this fall, meaning that for her arm to have arrested her fall, her arm must have pulled through the ATC somehow. Also that end would have been above her, atleast for a while, and might make a little more sense as to how long it would have taken to get her arm all caught up.
Then when she was lowered the end of the lead rope pulled through her ATC, since the piece which must have caught her fall was above halfway height - if it wasn't she would have ended up below her belayer.
Wow again. You are one lucky person. Thankyou so much for sharing this with everyone, much can be learned from it, and I know I have definitely gained maturity as a climber having read it.
Will
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calamity_chk
Apr 14, 2004, 3:22 PM
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Curt, you didnt piss me off. I learned a lot from that fall, more than I know how to express - but the incessant posts telling me that I shouldnt have been there is pretty much beating a dead horse at this point. Barely slipping through the Grim Reaper's fingers catches one's attention. ;)
Personally, I posted the account because I know of several people who could learn from my blind ambition. I want them to understand how horrifying it was and how incredibly unheroic it would be to die a brutal and untimely death where your eulogy is, "I told you so."
In reply to: I respect your somewhat honest assestment of your skills or lack of them. Leading a handful of trad-pitches and jugging some aid routes really doesn't make you ready for a big-wall ascent. Reading books on anchors does not make you an expert on them and maybe, just maybe if you spend more time doing longer mutli-pitch routes you would have prepared yourself for the amount of effort it takes (gear placement, speed, setting proper rappel systems, proper eating, hydration etc...) to do them.
Thanks, I respect and value your statements as well - and, again, I agree that doing more multi-pitch trad routes that were relatively soft in grade would have been better learning grounds. I've been so focused on ascending the rock that I've neglected to pay attention to all of the other little things that go along with it. To quote a friend who's been wall climbing for slightly over a decade, "wall climbing is a different level. you have to deal with so much more than just the climbing aspect. Hell that's the easy part." Said to me after the fall.
I guess that's why I made the post. To use myself as an example to demonstrate this point. I know it now, I have a deeply ingrained understanding of it - but I want other people to learn it through me. I want people to understand that when you rope up, you roll the dice. The best that any of us can do is to progress slowly enough to stack the cards in our favor.
In reply to: She windmills her arms as you do during a fall like that - While windmilling her arms they got caught with the aiders/daisy |
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unabonger
Apr 14, 2004, 4:18 PM
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In reply to: At some point I realized everything had gone to hell (or at least became very uncomfortable with the sketchy information I had) and requested the line be fixed, but Amber was unable to do so. Things promptly went downhill fast from there.
In reply to: .. wow, that felt fast for lowering 100' of rope, but maybe i just zoned out or something. again, the thought crosses my mind to radio down and say that i dont feel like i'm thinking clearly, something doesnt feel right, but decide to get a drink of water and head down instead of wasting more time.
Two things:
Time is all we have. And...
When something doesn't "feel right", its time to step back and evaluate why. Impatience in these moments must be stifled. There are numerous points in the narrative of this accident where that feeling is described and brushed aside.
Sorry if someone's pointed this out, I've not read every single post. Yet.
Thanks for posting all of this, it was the right thing. I was involved in an accident years and years ago, and even though I "accepted responsibility" for it, it was some time before I could react objectively and without pride to accurately evaluate my actions. I guess my point is, Amber, and Tim, it might be wise to temper your responses somewhat to the more judgemental responders. As you gain more experience and distance from this, you may find yourself better able to judge their criticisms.
The UnaBonger
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calamity_chk
Apr 14, 2004, 5:13 PM
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In reply to: When something doesn't "feel right", its time to step back and evaluate why. Impatience in these moments must be stifled. There are numerous points in the narrative of this accident where that feeling is described and brushed aside.
You're absolutely correct on this, which is why I included these details in the narrative. One of my most immediate regrets was tuning out my own intuitive feelings of doing things wrong.
As to the more judgmental responders, I guess my feeling is this. While I dont disagree with them, my responses have two basic agendas.
First, I think that it's entirely too easy for others (inexperienced and ambitious) to point a finger and then think "that could never happen to me." I dont have any problems with intellectualizing the situation, and in fact, that's why I posted it. Part of me would like to see a more general discussion though so that other people (again, inexperienced and ambitious) can get more information from it. If it slips into a blame game, then my fear is that the people who need to learn the most from this will simply jump on the finger-pointing bandwagon.
Second, while I'm probably not as articulate as I should be, I have taken a lot of criticism to heart - but the critiques are also reaching the point of beating a dead horse. A) I'm already aware of these things, B) They are critiques that have already been shared multiple times, and each of those times I have agreed.
Quite honestly, the beauty of humility is the loss of ego and shame. Bottom line for me, I lived and am learning. I barely slipped through death's cold fingers, and I'm aware of it - this has caught my attention more than harsh words of an internet persona ever will. Further, there's no way in hell that words will ever be more powerful than seeing my son for the first time after the accident. I've gained my own wisdom from it which will continue to grow based not only on the advice of valued friends and experienced climbers, but also based on my own personal experiences.
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unabonger
Apr 14, 2004, 5:41 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: When something doesn't "feel right", its time to step back and evaluate why. Impatience in these moments must be stifled. There are numerous points in the narrative of this accident where that feeling is described and brushed aside. You're absolutely correct on this, which is why I included these details in the narrative. One of my most immediate regrets was tuning out my own intuitive feelings of doing things wrong.
Well said. No more horses will be beaten in this post.
The BeatenBonger
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leinosaur
Apr 14, 2004, 6:37 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: When something doesn't "feel right", its time to step back and evaluate why. Impatience in these moments must be stifled. There are numerous points in the narrative of this accident where that feeling is described and brushed aside. You're absolutely correct on this, which is why I included these details in the narrative. One of my most immediate regrets was tuning out my own intuitive feelings of doing things wrong.
Amber - you mentioned the hypoglycemia early on but it's a crucial factor here, and as a fellow blood-sugar-challenged apprentice climber it sounds to me like the blood sugar was very involved.
Mostly because as the sugar drops one doesn't just get woozy or weak-feeling, but there's a real crabbiness & impatience that goes along with it - at least for me I'm much more likely to say things I'll regret later or act rashly, when I haven't eaten enough of the right stuff (& power gel sounds like it would be good for a bit then send that sugar down down down)
Thanks to you Amber & RC.com in general for reminding us apprentices that good climbers aren't made in a season -
here's to APPRENTICESHIP,
HUMILITY, and PROTEIN!
Anyway your prose is captivating and clear - I second the motion to send this and more to the mags; hell, if that's what's in 'em I might even shell out the bucks! Don't know if cuttin' teeth in Duane R's homestate will help, but he was back here for the Spring Fling this year at Baldy. Go Quartz!
Thanks for livin' girl
leinosaur
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atg200
Apr 14, 2004, 6:43 PM
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In reply to: Just my opinion, but whether you gained your "epic handling" experience on a free route or an aid route shouldn't matter. I mean, we're talking 4 pitches here, never mind what's above: this accident effectively happened on a 4-pitch route.
i want to go back to this. there is a huge difference between a 4 pitch aid route on sandstone and a 4 pitch 5.6 on granite, even if the aid route is easy. one 4 pitch route does not necessarily take the same amount of effort as another.
the reason why i keep harping on doing the multipitch trad lines is that moderate ones are way less complicated and time consuming than easy aid trade routes. lots of SNAFUs will crop up along the way, and you can learn to deal with them in a less threatening and exhausting environment. i had dealt with stuck ropes, rappelling in the dark, bailing off routes, getting tired, racing the clock, and all kinds of other minor problems on trad routes within my ability before i ever encountered them on walls.
you can't learn to be efficient when you are in over your head.
beth - you are the main person who needs to learn from this experience, and from talking to you and reading your posts i don't think you have learned anything. jugging big routes doesn't prepare you for anything but jugging big routes. amber jugged behind me on the kingfisher, did a really good job of it, and still nearly got herself killed on something over her head. you need to step back and figure out what you are doing on tame ground before you get yourself and maybe a partner killed.
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squish
Apr 14, 2004, 6:57 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Just my opinion, but whether you gained your "epic handling" experience on a free route or an aid route shouldn't matter. I mean, we're talking 4 pitches here, never mind what's above: this accident effectively happened on a 4-pitch route. you can't learn to be efficient when you are in over your head.
My point was that Amber's accident was not caused by the mechanics or the difficulty of the climbing itself. It happened on rappel when tired and out of her mind, which you might need to do on a 5.6 as well. The consequences of screwing up are the same, either way.
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calamity_chk
Apr 14, 2004, 7:06 PM
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squish, atg just answered the question. sure hypoglycemia sucks and is never fun to cope with, but encountering a low sugar fit 600' off the deck on a C1 and encountering it on a 5.6 multi pitch in eldo or on granite terrain are entirely different - the stakes are just different.
In reply to: Mostly because as the sugar drops one doesn't just get woozy or weak-feeling, but there's a real crabbiness & impatience that goes along with it - at least for me I'm much more likely to say things I'll regret later or act rashly, when I haven't eaten enough of the right stuff
as for the mags, i'm talking to climbing right now. assuming that i can edit the narrative to 800 words and still be comfortable with it, it will likely be a mini epic in their epics edition. i'm also trying to rework the article for alpinist. i'm not sure if R&I would be willing to publish the same basic story as climbing, but enough R&I folks browse this site that if they were interested, they probably would have contacted me already.
and, yes, i love quartz. but the 'tas have my heart.
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calamity_chk
Apr 14, 2004, 7:21 PM
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In reply to: My point was that Amber's accident was not caused by the mechanics or the difficulty of the climbing itself. It happened on rappel when tired and out of her mind, which you might need to do on a 5.6 as well. The consequences of screwing up are the same, either way.
true, falling 600' is falling 600', and accidents happen to even the most experienced climbers; however, i'm still a beginning climber in the grand scheme of things. i had the book knowledge but lacked sufficient pragmatic experience.
a) the mechanics and difficult of the climbing, combined with poor dietary habits and a known history of low-blood sugar, led to the fatigue.
b) experience is safer to acquire on easier terrain. experience helps mitigate danger by burning habits into muscle memory.
when i hit autopilot, i was a sport climber instead of being an aid climber. had i done hundreds more trad routes before that, then i would have been able to more properly manage my diet on the route and probably would have either done things correctly out of sheer habit or would have dropped the pride and radioed to tim instead of trying to work through the sugar fit. what's more, i would have warned him that i have a history of LBS and would have talked more extensively about my climbing accomplishments and would have asked more about his .. preparing for a climb, climbing, and all of the other little bs things that go along with it are things that you learn in time. i didnt get myself enough time to even know what questions to ask, i was just eager to climb.
finally, not sure if this is abstract rhetorical play or an honest attempt to understand something. i want people to learn, but being abstract and theoretical about this just isnt possible for me right now. i have a little boy at home who counts on me to keep a roof over his head, i almost lost that.
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calamity_chk
Apr 14, 2004, 7:27 PM
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In reply to: My point was that Amber's accident was not caused by the mechanics or the difficulty of the climbing itself. It happened on rappel when tired and out of her mind, which you might need to do on a 5.6 as well. The consequences of screwing up are the same, either way.
true, falling 600' is falling 600', and accidents happen to even the most experienced climbers; however, i'm still a beginning climber in the grand scheme of things. i had the book knowledge but lacked sufficient pragmatic experience to be an equal partner on a wall.
a) the mechanics and difficulty of the climbing, combined with poor dietary habits and a known history of low-blood sugar led to the fatigue.
b) experience is safer to acquire on easier terrain. experience helps mitigate danger by burning habits into muscle memory.
when i hit autopilot, i was a sport climber instead of being an aid climber. had i done hundreds more trad routes before that, then i would have been able to more properly manage my diet on the route and probably would have either done things correctly out of sheer habit or would have dropped the pride and radioed to tim instead of trying to work through the sugar fit. what's more, i would have had a better grasp of the work involved and would have warned him that i have a history of LBS. i also would have talked more extensively about my climbing accomplishments and would have asked more about his .. preparing for a climb, climbing, and all of the other little bs things that go along with it are things that you learn in time. i didnt give myself enough time to even know what questions to ask, i was just eager to climb.
additionally, everyone seems to have some sort of "coming of age" experience somewhere around their second year. the theory is, you're finally getting smart enough to do something incredibly stupid*. i ignored this and didnt bother waiting around on easier terrain to acquire my reality check - i learned about the realities of death/danger in climbing in a completely terrifying way. sure, i would have had some sort of "coming of age" sooner or later, everyone does - but it would have been less severe because the environment and route themselves would have been less severe.
finally, not sure if this is abstract rhetorical play or an honest attempt to understand something. i want people to learn, but being abstract and theoretical about this just isnt possible for me right now. i have a little boy at home who counts on me for everything, i almost lost that.
*theories provided by friends who are climbing guides and have about 20yrs worth of climbing experience.
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tedc
Apr 14, 2004, 8:24 PM
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Various quotes:
"I have only read the first 6 pages but..."
"I don't know if this has already been mentioned butt..."
"I don't understand..."
"What caught your fall?"
People. :evil: Read the f'in thread :evil: .
If you don't want to read all the posts then go start your own thread. I can't even guess how many times the same info has been repeated in this thread. All the valid info could be contained in 10 pages.
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squish
Apr 14, 2004, 10:21 PM
Post #374 of 457
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Registered: Sep 2, 2003
Posts: 470
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What you say about having everything burned into muscle memory has merit, but who knows how you would truly act when you suddenly find your head unable to function, if you've never been there. And dealing with fatigue and low blood sugar is something that you might not have encountered until you attempted a tough route like this and got completely drained by it. That's a valuable climbing lesson too.
In reply to: finally, not sure if this is abstract rhetorical play or an honest attempt to understand something. i want people to learn, but being abstract and theoretical about this just isnt possible for me right now. i have a little boy at home who counts on me for everything, i almost lost that.
It hits a lot closer to home for you than it does for the rest of us, but it still gives (most of) us great pause for reflection, I'd bet even more so for those of us with kids. I have a young family that depends on me, too.
I'll admit that I'm being just a bit rhetorical about this, but I just don't think you should beat yourself up over being "too ambitious." You were -- in effect -- out cragging, having climbed only 4 pitches, and the fourth was pretty much optional: "Let's climb this and then we'll go home." How committed (in terms of having an easy way out) were you?
From way over here, it doesn't sound like you were "in over your head." From way over here, it just sounds like you're looking for any reason why you shouldn't have been in that place at that time, and you're seeing your ambition as a convenient excuse. I don't know. I could be wrong.
I just don't see being on the route as an error in judgment that led to the accident. Of course, not being there would have avoided the accident altogether, but I don't think that's the point in this case. This was a subjective hazard.
Like you said, it's probably too early for you to think of the accident in these terms, but I'm just throwing this out there as food for thought. Who knows, maybe it will help you understand and learn to live with it.
Cheers to you & your son.
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very
Apr 14, 2004, 11:02 PM
Post #375 of 457
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Registered: Jan 22, 2004
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Amen to that Brother!
less than 1000 feet from the road and only one pitch off rocker is not committed.
Any route where from the middle 3 ropes can get you to the top or bottom is not committing.
rapping off a rope is not due to inexperience, overzealousness, or being on a hard route. If I rap off a rope after bailing on pitch 25 of some nail up hard pitch, it still is the same as coming off when my rope is through 2 cold shuts 125' off the ground.
if you can't rap in your sleep, don't try it. Rapping is one of those skills that you have to be able to do drunk while being attacked by weasels in a freaking blizzard with only 2 fingers and a fork where your left hand used to be. kinda of like driving a car, but more serious.
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Re: ambition & ego: my 160' fall in zion
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