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holmeslovesguinness
Apr 14, 2004, 11:26 PM
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In reply to: squish, atg just answered the question. sure hypoglycemia sucks and is never fun to cope with, but encountering a low sugar fit 600' off the deck on a C1 and encountering it on a 5.6 multi pitch in eldo or on granite terrain are entirely different - the stakes are just different.
I disagree - anytime your judgement is impaired (for whatever reason) on ANY kind of climb the stakes are pretty much the same. Make a poor descision and you can get hurt or killed.
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charley
Apr 14, 2004, 11:30 PM
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Just readthis, Amber. It was posted while I was away. I'm shocked! I am also so happy that you are ok. It serves as a reminder of how close we are to death each time we're up there. Again, thank God your ok.
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moabbeth
Apr 14, 2004, 11:45 PM
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In reply to: Two simple thongs that could have changed the whole day. Amber quite eating those sugar gels unles you are performing highly aerobic activity, they do not provide enough fuel for someone who is not used to working within their reserves. Eat whole foods. ALWAYS rappel with an autoblock, it would have saved you, no doubt about that. Moabbeth, you are a posuer quite trying to prove otherwise.
Go eff yourself a-hole. So gawd, I guess you didn't have any valley climbers to rat out today so you decided to play online. :twisted: :twisted:
Amber is a friend. Her accident shook me. I've gone over her scenario numerous times with partners we have in common. If she tied a stronger knot than a overhand it likely would NOT have gone through her device. I am not a poser for saying that, I've discussed her accident with NUMEROUS experienced climbers who know both myself and Amber and *to a person* they all said that was a HUGE mistake on her part, that she only tied an overhand, and tied it at the very very end of her rope making it supereasy to unravel and go straight thru her device. They've all repeated that you should always use at least a figure 8 or something stronger tied at the end of the rope and have a little bit of line left. I'm sure that's a lesson she and anyone else who reads this thread will remember. So STFU and go out and play with your TOOL buddies freaktard. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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bobd1953
Apr 14, 2004, 11:51 PM
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In reply to: . So STFU and go out and play with your TOOL buddies freaktard.
Temper, temper. This girl/lady got's some spirt.
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calamity_chk
Apr 15, 2004, 1:39 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Two simple things that could have changed the whole day. Amber quite eating those sugar gels unles you are performing highly aerobic activity, they do not provide enough fuel for someone who is not used to working within their reserves. Eat whole foods. ALWAYS rappel with an autoblock, it would have saved you, no doubt about that. Moabbeth, you are a posuer quite trying to prove otherwise. Go eff yourself a-hole. So gawd, I guess you didn't have any valley climbers to rat out today so you decided to play online. :twisted: :twisted: Amber is a friend. Her accident shook me. I've gone over her scenario numerous times with partners we have in common. If she tied a stronger knot than a overhand it likely would NOT have gone through her device. I am not a poser for saying that, I've discussed her accident with NUMEROUS experienced climbers who know both myself and Amber and *to a person* they all said that was a HUGE mistake on her part, that she only tied an overhand, and tied it at the very very end of her rope making it supereasy to unravel and go straight thru her device. They've all repeated that you should always use at least a figure 8 or something stronger tied at the end of the rope and have a little bit of line left. I'm sure that's a lesson she and anyone else who reads this thread will remember. So STFU and go out and play with your TOOL buddies freaktard. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
first, gawd's point about my diet is dead on, the auto block rap device is also something on my list.
second, beth, i like you, but the knot is something that i acknowledged in the initial post and is something that was discussed early on in the thread. also, to the best of my knowledge, we only have a few experienced climbing friends in common (joe, atg, art and possibly tim and flamer) and only one actual climbing partner in common that i know of (atg).
though, in light of your slamming gawd, it might be helpful to reiterate what our mutual climbing partner, mr atg200 had to say - bearing in mind that although he and i never specifically discussed MB, he did try to dissuade me from aid once he noticed that frightening glimmer in my eyes every time i talked about something big.
In reply to: beth - you are the main person who needs to learn from this experience, and from talking to you and reading your posts i don't think you have learned anything. jugging big routes doesn't prepare you for anything but jugging big routes. amber jugged behind me on the kingfisher, did a really good job of it, and still nearly got herself killed on something over her head. you need to step back and figure out what you are doing on tame ground before you get yourself and maybe a partner killed.
i also remember getting pm's requesting that i delete posts in the aid forum because you were afraid that no one would want to partner with you on aid climbs. specifically, i recommended that you learn from my experience and get some more trad practice in before pursuing aid full throttle and still stand by the advice - i've paid the dues and taken the lumps (and am continuing to do so) for trying to jump the learning curve. there's no way in hell that i'm going to encourage anyone to skip the fundamentals, especially not a friend.
hell, read what bob's had to say about my errors. our climbing experience and attitudes were very similar prior to my fall. our experiences are still somewhat similar, but my tune has changed a lot.
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bishopclimber
Apr 15, 2004, 5:09 AM
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In reply to: Personally, I'll be happy if I can lead 5.6 again by the end of the summer and can stop having nightmares about falling to my death. bad it's so difficult to find an honest yet encouraging mentor.
with a comment like that I don't see you being a climber that much longer.
you might want to consider another sport.
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philbox
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Apr 15, 2004, 5:27 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Personally, I'll be happy if I can lead 5.6 again by the end of the summer and can stop having nightmares about falling to my death. bad it's so difficult to find an honest yet encouraging mentor. hey Amber, with a comment like that I don't see you being a climber that much longer. you might want to consider another sport.
I see Ambers comment here as being a heat of the moment thing that will pass as she gets into climbing again. I can see that she has been extremely humbled by this experience and her tail is firmly between her legs. I`ve been there and know from experience that it is always best to jump right back on the horse and keep riding it. Sorry about mixing the metaphors.
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kalcario
Apr 15, 2004, 6:42 AM
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*Personally, I'll be happy if I can lead 5.6 again by the end of the summer and can stop having nightmares about falling to my death.
bad it's so difficult to find an honest yet encouraging mentor.*
You just have'nt found your niche in climbing yet. The people with real passion in this sport, like you, start out as beginners wanting to do big walls. Yours truly literally ran away from home at the age of 15 fixated on NW Face of Half Dome. I met some people in C4 who were going up on it and flat-out lied to them as to how much experience I had (in reality, 2 previous roped climbs total) and they let me tag along. It took us 4 days, I ate about 1 meal's worth of food for the whole route and should have died and/or killed the whole crew every time I led a pitch - on the second Zig Zag I hauled and had the second jumaring off 1 fixed pin. So I would be a hypocrite if I accused you of anything, because that fully could've been me with even worse results. Later I figured out that wall climbing really wasn't my bag, and that free climbing was more suited to my ability and skinny frame. So don't give up, it's not all about doing big walls, or just wait and get more experience before you go back up on one again.
Lynn Hill, the best American climber of the 90's, fell 100' to the ground because of a stupid mistake, and it didn't even phase her. Look what she came back and did after that. It never occured to her for one second to quit climbing. Learn from it and move on.
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alpnclmbr1
Apr 15, 2004, 6:58 AM
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^^^ That is about the most kind spirited thing I have seen you write on rc.com. If that post reflects you’re intentions in this thread, then you have my apologies for my previous remark.
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papounet
Apr 15, 2004, 8:50 AM
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dear Amber,
happy to hear you are well.
From what I could read, your report is the first step on your recovery from your near-miss experience, acting as catharsis.
It will take some more time for the nightmares to go. But they'll go if you turn toward the future. You are here still with the people you cherish, alive and kicking.
Coming close to dying or loosing a partner often help to:
a/ re-discover the true priorities of one's life
b/ assess your technical abilities
c/ assess your physical abilities
d/ evaluate advice received on its value and not on wether it support your ambitions
e/ and hopefully bring your ambitions closer to realistically achievable-yet-streching enjoyable objectives.
This goes beyond climbing. What hasn't destroyed you is already getting you stronger.
To the rest of the readers,
I hope that the emotions-heavy thread will get through where pure rational explanations don't.
Accidents don't "just" happen. Going "above your head" or relying on partner's experience (consciously or unconscioulsy) will bite anyone sooner rather than later.
I am not in favor of "paying your dues", as it sounds to much like "bowing to the great old ancients", "learn it the way I learn it",....
Nonetheless, if a bigwall was a marathon, how would you prepare for it ?
would you be doing 400-m dash, 5k, 10 k...? how often, for how long ??
The simplest way to think about climbing proficiency is a pyramid.
Forget about maximum performance and focus on sustained performance.
Although you should extend your capabilities by trying harder, you should at the same time broaden them by ticking without failure almost everything simpler.
In other words, if you best onsight is 5.xx , are you really able to do 80% of level 5.xx-1 day-in/day-out ?
On walls, I would think the same rule could apply about grade IV and V ?
Although I don't support the abrasive language and/or attitude some contributors project in this virtual arena, I sort of feel a kind of frustration with some "accidents-waiting-to-happen" people I glimpse online or at the crags. I can spot them well, I was one ;-).
Seriously: how many of you have thought: "I could have made similar errors, what do I do to avoid them ?"
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calamity_chk
Apr 15, 2004, 12:13 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Personally, I'll be happy if I can lead 5.6 again by the end of the summer and can stop having nightmares about falling to my death. bad it's so difficult to find an honest yet encouraging mentor. hey Amber, with a comment like that I don't see you being a climber that much longer.
maybe i wont be, who knows, or maybe i will. i doubt that either decision will have a huge or lasting impact on the climbing community, so my guess is that it's a moot point - but that's just my humble thought on the matter.
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granitegod
Apr 15, 2004, 9:37 PM
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Well, nothing new to add (how could there be, after 26 pages?)....
just wanted to post something to show off my new signature.
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bflank
Apr 16, 2004, 4:52 PM
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After reading 26 pages of posts, it becomes apparent that the "cause" of an accident or near-accident like this is rarely a single mistake. In aviation I've been taught that there is usually a chain of bad judgements that lead to an accident. In this case it would be beating Amber's dead horse to list those bad judgements.
But consider that often if you can identify any ONE of the bad judgements and reverse it - you break the chain and avoid the accident.
Several people including Amber have referred to this indirectly in speaking about listening to those feelings that "something is not right". The trick is, of course, to be able to tell the difference between simple nerves and indications of a real brewing problem. Only experience will do that.
Perhaps like flying, the superior climber uses all of their superior judgement and superior experience to avoid having to use all of their superior skill.
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moabbeth
Apr 17, 2004, 4:21 AM
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I'm done with this thread. As I leave it I want to just say....
Amber, I am VERY glad you are still among us and wish you a speedy recovery. Take good care of yourself, you deserve it. And get back on the rock whenever you feel ready.
I hate gawd cause of the crap he pulls in the valley. Normally I do not respond to posts with cursing and most people who read my posts know that.
Yes I am an aid noob and will not be adding anything to this discussion since I don't wanna be talking out of my ass. But I am committed to learning aid, love it more than any other form of climbing and, and especially in light of the Amber situation, triple safety concious now. Baby steps....and all in good time. I'm off to go lurk in supertopo, devouring the intelligent aid discourse that goes on over there.
So Amber's thankfully among the living, and as they say at the end of every South Park episode....
"I think I learned something today."
Over and OUT!
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ginerbiner
Apr 20, 2004, 3:03 AM
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I'm amazed!!! Amber, darlin', if ever there was a sign that you are supposed to be here among us, this is it. How frightening an experience!! And what a fluke of life saving happenstance! I cannot judge at all what was correct or not, but I'm so glad that it ended without an ending! Ever hear the Hindu saying, "Good fortune, bad fortune, who can tell?" Your life will be different from that point forward. I'm interested to hear about the changes, realizations, any new sense of purpose and priorities. The existentialist's dream... But humans still question... "Okay, I'm for sure supposed to be here, but for what?" But at least you have half of an answer more than the rest of us!! Glad you were and are okay. Wow!
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shakylegs
Apr 20, 2004, 7:55 PM
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You'll never get yourself a man looking like that. Heh.
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calamity_chk
Apr 20, 2004, 8:02 PM
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:wtf:
i'll never get myself a man for a whole sht load of reasons. my mom says it's because my kitchen isnt clean and i dont like to cook. my ex-bf's say it's because i'm a nutbag. i think it's because i'm jaded and like to spend most of my time out of town.
nyah.
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sandbag
Apr 20, 2004, 8:05 PM
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In reply to: :wtf: i'll never get myself a man for a whole sht load of reasons. my mom says it's because my kitchen isnt clean and i dont like to cook. my ex-bf's say it's because i'm a nutbag. i think it's because i'm jaded and like to spend most of my time out of town. nyah.
Amen sister! Your singing to the choir, cept i cook and have an immaculate kitchen, and they are the nutballs...... ;)
Glad youre doin better, those owwwies look like no fun, but better then the alternative.
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okieterry
Apr 20, 2004, 8:12 PM
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Do you rodeo?
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leinosaur
Apr 20, 2004, 8:26 PM
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hey Amber,
with a comment like that I don't see you being a climber that much longer.
maybe i wont be, who knows, or maybe i will. i doubt that either decision will have a huge or lasting impact on the climbing community, so my guess is that it's a moot point - but that's just my humble thought on the matter.
Humility is good - but whether you climb or not is not moot. It may or may not make a big diff to the community (it's made a big one though, 16 pages worth on this one - dang) but it will make all the diff in your life; not to say you have to or ought to keep climbing - that's always personal - but just that it's been such a powerful force, maybe you'll be more appreciative of takin' it easy, working up more slowly on trad & whatever. Your ego's taken a shot so don't do the ego stuff so much - do the appreciating nature stuff. Like you said, 5.5-5.6 trad, baby - then you're out there on the rock, with the rock, in the rock and the rock in you.
solid
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kalcario
Apr 20, 2004, 8:44 PM
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*i'll never get myself a man for a whole sht load of reasons.*
Dude, remember, you're in Boulder, CO, the San Francisco of the Midwest...here in SoCal the girls have to bring baseball bats to the crags...
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epic_ed
Apr 20, 2004, 8:47 PM
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Yeeeeeowwwwch!! Hope it's healing quickly. And as for the asthetics of it -- hey, guys dig scars. Nut bags who can't cook with scars? Now you're pushing it. ;-)
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maculated
Apr 20, 2004, 8:47 PM
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Tee hee . . .
That's a good one. ::pats louisville slugger::
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calamity_chk
Apr 20, 2004, 8:49 PM
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In reply to: *i'll never get myself a man for a whole sht load of reasons.* Dude, remember, you're in Boulder, CO, the San Francisco of the Midwest...here in SoCal the girls have to bring baseball bats to the crags...
touche. though, i was told that finding a man in CO wouldnt be too difficult either. oh well. maybe i'll try uc davis for my phd. i should be a sorta decent climber by then, maybe.
though, "must dig scars" has definitely been added to the already lengthy list of traits for probable mates.
ps - terry, i dont rodeo, but i am from texas. maybe i should take up rodeo instead of kayaking, hah.
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Re: ambition & ego: my 160' fall in zion
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