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plund
Dec 28, 2005, 4:16 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Clipping to gear loop is nothing new and again, it is not the victims fault. In this case, people who were given the instruction should be liable for it. Not the "victim's" fault? At all??? Isn't he the one to whom the instruction was given? Or did you mean "giving the instruction", ie. the staff? Seems to me the ultimate victim is gonna be the owner of the facility...Gotta call BS on ya on this one, majid....it seems whatever way the consensus is running (in reference to a mess of your past injury-related posts) you oppose it....if the mob says "Belayer", you say "climber"....if the consensus is "operator error", you blame equipment. This guy was a dumbass, plain & simple....true, perhaps he should have been more closely monitored (don't know if he was a 1st-timer, etc.) but jeez, if you have a question ASK, especially considering the consequences. All that said, I hope he recovers....and tries a different activity, like fingerpainting...although, if he gets paint in his eye, is it the manufacturer's fault? Climbers with bad attitudes are more dangerous than a kid who put his harness backward. I guess you never fell when you were riding your first bicycle.
I guess I did....but that's not really the same as climbing now, is it? YOur near-morbid fascination with any & all accidents is quite the attitude as well, big guy...answer me this - how do you manage to have your nose in the air AND your head up your ass at the same time?? Inquiring minds want to know.....
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majid_sabet
Dec 28, 2005, 7:26 PM
Post #27 of 86
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Red Point Maniac
Location: Oakdale, MN
200 posts added
since 06 Mar 2003
Post Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:34 pm Reply with quote Back to top
Holy crap....sorry I suggested professional instruction...my climbing resume is not much but I can build a bomber anchor...just saying good instruction is worth it....good luck & have fun....
....................................................
Out of your 200 posted professional instruction, I found one that was worth some thing, so just work on your resume .
Majid
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climbsomething
Dec 28, 2005, 7:36 PM
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In reply to: I wasn't upset about him being hurt I was upset when the staff pulled me off a route and closed the section of the wall. I told my pops who is a nonclimber and he was furious that I showed no sympathy and I veiwed it as natural selection
And when you get to high school (assuming you don't live in Kansas) and learn what "natural selection" is maybe you'll come up with a better schoolyard diss.
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jakedatc
Dec 28, 2005, 7:57 PM
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i agree with Hil... board it's common practice to clear an area when an injury occurs so the medical staff has room to work and everyone's not crowding around...
Majid.. in your 242 posts you have contributed absolutely nothing to this board.. not to mention your last makes absolutely no fucking sense
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colkurtz
Dec 28, 2005, 8:00 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I wasn't upset about him being hurt I was upset when the staff pulled me off a route and closed the section of the wall. I told my pops who is a nonclimber and he was furious that I showed no sympathy and I veiwed it as natural selection I'd be annoyed too, if I found out I raised a dumbass self-centered kid without a trace of compassion. And when you get to high school (assuming you don't live in Kansas) and learn what "natural selection" is maybe you'll come up with a better schoolyard diss.
I'd be annoyed if my kid grew up to be a regular rc.com contributor.
wish i understood this whole natural selection thing though.
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plund
Dec 28, 2005, 8:43 PM
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****edited...changed my mind about wasting any more time on this****
Ahhhh....nothing better than an online pissing match!!!
majid, I sincerely hope you're less of a jackass in reality....it's easy to pop off online, ain't it?
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zozo
Dec 28, 2005, 8:50 PM
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In reply to: I'd be annoyed if my kid grew up to be a regular rc.com contributor.
Whoa!! Take it easy there dude. Im sure she did'nt mean anything by it. Damn, note to self, don't piss this guy off!!
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tradrenn
Dec 29, 2005, 1:18 AM
Post #33 of 86
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In reply to: ****edited...changed my mind about wasting any more time on this**** Ahhhh....nothing better than an online pissing match!!! majid, I sincerely hope you're less of a jackass in reality....it's easy to pop off online, ain't it?
Did you just describe yourself ?
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majid_sabet
Dec 29, 2005, 6:47 AM
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In reply to: ****edited...changed my mind about wasting any more time on this**** Ahhhh....nothing better than an online pissing match!!! majid, I sincerely hope you're less of a jackass in reality....it's easy to pop off online, ain't it?
There is no point of arguing, I am sure most us when looked like a dumb ass learning our first figure 8 and trying to rig the first anchor. There may be some people who may have other problems in life that makes them slow in learning, we still have to be nice to them, we cannot just call them dumb Asses just because they are not like us with experience.
So they still deserve respect even if they hurt themselves doing none sense or mistakes.
Peace.
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jimdavis
Dec 29, 2005, 7:30 AM
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In reply to: VE shouldn't have to take any blame for dumb asses (sp)
I don't think so. I myself work at a gym, and strongly feel that the gym is at fault, to some extent.
I usually supervise 9 ropes, and a 12'x15' bouldering wall...moving pads under climbers, checking belays, giving belay tests, giving new orientation procedures, etc...it's me and 1 other person doing this.
This is the job you have paid staff doing!
Christ, anyone that looked at that guy from any direction could tell something was up, he had a friggin belay loop in the back! No one, staff or non-staff, approached this guy and you can bet he fumbled with his harness for a while before he got it on.
He was evidently new, had no idea what he was doing, had not been check out with any staff...and just walked up and clipped into a gear loop. You have to have policies and safety checks in place to prevent this.
Every now and then, someone will slip through with their own gear, and look like they have an idea of what they're doing....that's why I look at evey biner, and every buckle on every harness, i look at the tie-in on the climber, how confident and attentive the belayer is, etc. It doesn't take long, and it's not hard....you just have to do it.
No one did...the gym deserves what they get. Hopefully gyms with inadaquate safety measures will step it up some now, so this doesn't happen again.
Did i actually read that the guy fell 5 feet and broke his ankle? They have a concrette floor or something??? Talk about unlucky.
Cheers,
Jim
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bear
Dec 29, 2005, 9:55 PM
Post #36 of 86
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Should I blame my trad climbing instructor when I take a bad fall my next time out after failing to place a cam properly? Should I blame my ceramics teacher when my off-center pot collapses and spews clay everywhere? In either case, I have recieved instruction, and still managed not to follow it. There's no reason to blame the instructor because I didn't follow directions.
It is the climber's responsibility to climb safely. Unless a VE staff member specifically instructed him incorrectly or okayed an incorrect use of equipment, VE did not fail to provide a safe climbing environment; the climber failed to use his equipment properly. Whether we'll ever learn the details is a question for the future.
Getting off my "accepting personal responsibility" soapbox now...
VE has 9"-12" of chipped rubber throughout; I'm guessing that the original poster just saw the last part of the fall, and was likely prompted by the sound of the auto-belay finishing its ascent.
If I recall correctly, there are even signs at the auto-belays suggesting that climbers have someone double-check that they are tied in correctly. I haven't been in months, so this may have changed. Climbing is inherently dangerous; failure to use equipment properly may result in serious injury, or worse.
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plund
Dec 30, 2005, 6:09 PM
Post #37 of 86
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In reply to: In reply to: ****edited...changed my mind about wasting any more time on this**** Ahhhh....nothing better than an online pissing match!!! majid, I sincerely hope you're less of a jackass in reality....it's easy to pop off online, ain't it? Did you just describe yourself ?
Probably...can't thank you enough for all the time...
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gonz
Dec 30, 2005, 11:15 PM
Post #38 of 86
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It's amazing to see all these responses from a bunch of assclowns who have no idea what they're talking about.
The staff at VE is some of the most well trained in the country. No other gym that I have been to has anywhere close to the program in place to train the staff. This is for everything from top rope checks to teaching lead classes. If you think this has anything to do with faulty teaching or a staff member that doesn't know what they're doing then you're just dumb.
VE in Chicago is within a Lifetime Fitness. 90% of the members at Lifetime are a bunch of whiney bitches who think they're entitled to everything and that the world revolves around them. So it's a fairly safe bet that this joker just waltzed right in and thought he could just clip in and start climbing. If you wrote that you work at a gym and that could never happen then you're naive. Unless of course your gym is the size of a closet.
And as far as not being able to climb with your shirt off, you've got to be joking right? BFD. Are you so vain that you think it's important to be able to show off your ribs? Or wait, let me guess, that tank top is just way too restrictive and gets in your way. STFU and just climb and have fun.
So there :!:
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jimdavis
Dec 31, 2005, 5:40 AM
Post #39 of 86
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In reply to: It's amazing to see all these responses from a bunch of assclowns who have no idea what they're talking about. The staff at VE is some of the most well trained in the country. No other gym that I have been to has anywhere close to the program in place to train the staff. This is for everything from top rope checks to teaching lead classes. If you think this has anything to do with faulty teaching or a staff member that doesn't know what they're doing then you're just dumb. VE in Chicago is within a Lifetime Fitness. 90% of the members at Lifetime are a bunch of whiney b---- who think they're entitled to everything and that the world revolves around them. So it's a fairly safe bet that this joker just waltzed right in and thought he could just clip in and start climbing. If you wrote that you work at a gym and that could never happen then you're naive. Unless of course your gym is the size of a closet.
Worthless.
In reply to: The staff at VE is some of the most well trained in the country. No other gym that I have been to has anywhere close to the program in place to train the staff. This is for everything from top rope checks to teaching lead classes. If you think this has anything to do with faulty teaching or a staff member that doesn't know what they're doing then you're just dumb.
If any staff lets someone in, lets them put on their harness, and clip in with their harness on backwards and climb...they're incompetent.
So you wanna convince all of us that a gym that can't control who gets in and who climbs there is the best in the world? :lol: :lol: :lol:
And they use an autobelay sytem? For their "top notch" instruction?
The guy hit a floor from 5 feet up and hurt himself? So you've got inattentive staff, on a autobelay setup, over a hard floor? And you think they're "top notch"?
Sounds like the worst gym I've heard of, yet.
In reply to: If you wrote that you work at a gym and that could never happen then you're naive.
Policies must not have been explained, he was never checked out, and no one took a second look at him. The gym is at fault, and they know it.
Jim
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tdk
Dec 31, 2005, 7:13 AM
Post #40 of 86
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In reply to: The gym is at fault, and they know it.
Please.
You’re not omniscient, and you know it.
Absolutly no personal responsibility necessary.
It’s the fast food restaurant’s fault because I’m too fat.
The bar is responsible for my DUI because they served me.
The bicycle helmet manufacturer is responsible for my head injury because I didn’t put it on.
Look at the civil court system and you can gag on that kind of nonsense all you want.
Let’s take this one step further. Why don’t you just climb for the guy, and he can stay home on the couch. Ooops! Now it’s your fault because he needs bypass surgery from being inactive.
It’s the climbers fault.
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mowz
Dec 31, 2005, 7:41 AM
Post #41 of 86
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In reply to: And as far as not being able to climb with your shirt off, you've got to be joking right? BFD. Are you so vain that you think it's important to be able to show off your ribs? Or wait, let me guess, that tank top is just way too restrictive and gets in your way. STFU and just climb and have fun.
Sometimes it's not about vanity. Sometimes, it's about sweat and having a clean, dry shirt to wear on the drive home. Sometimes, it's also about being able to cool down. If it's anywhere near 75 at the top and it was a moderate route, I'm sweating my balls off. I would like to climb without a shirt so that I don't get so warm.
The next time you're doing yard work, or anything physically taxing, and it's warm outside, I want you to think about your post. The next time you're at the beach and you want to take your top off because it's hot, think about what you posted.
Now, you STFU!!!!!!!
WTF is a BFD? You? A big fucking dumbass?
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gonz
Dec 31, 2005, 3:52 PM
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Hey Jim, reading comprehension isn't one of your strong suits is it?
It's already been mentioned within this thread that the floor of that facility is made up out of recycled rubber, anywhere from 9-12" thick. So no, that's not a hard floor.
Also, the original poster mentioned that by the time he looked over the guy was only five feet off the ground. However it's been mentioned that he feel from much higher up.
And where has anyone said that the staff knowingly let this guy in? Or trained him on how to use the autobelay?
Overall, if you are blindly criticizing the gym and making assumptions about the equipment, training or facility, you're simply showing your ass and how little you really know about the climbing industry. Just so you know, the gentleman who owns VE is responsible for a majority of the safety procedures and guidelines that are standard accross the climbing gym industry. He also was fundamental in setting standards for climbing wall construction in regards to engineering, materials, workmanship and safety.
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gonz
Dec 31, 2005, 3:56 PM
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In reply to: WTF is a BFD?
Big Fucking Deal. Now eat me. :lol:
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mowz
Dec 31, 2005, 7:37 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: WTF is a BFD? Big f---ing Deal. Now eat me. :lol:
I don't eat shit.
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csgambill
Dec 31, 2005, 8:29 PM
Post #45 of 86
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Hell, all I know is that as a paying member of that gym I want to be able to climb with my shirt off. I would love to talk to (or meet in a dark alley) the assmonkey(s) who have made my climbing days a little less pleasant. Thank you, whoever you are. Your complaints have certianly made the world a better place. If you're a mom trying to shelter her kids, you've done them a great service in hiding the fact that, yes, even men have nipples. If you are, as I so eloquently described in my prior post, some feminazi bitch, why don't you just try taking your shirt off too? Betty Friedan would be proud. Finally if you're a guy and you complained about this, now that's just plain weird.
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gonz
Dec 31, 2005, 9:27 PM
Post #46 of 86
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Just for the record, I don't care if folks climb with their shirts on or off. But just take a second to think about where you are at. Lifetime Fitness is a high class upper end establishment, with all kinds of prissy bitches and CEO types that prefer a clean sterile environment. Unfortunately for climbers that means that if they enforce the shirt wearing rule everywhere else in that club, the same applies for the climbing wall. Climbing walls are not a large enough source of revenue for Lifetime that they wouldn't think twice about enforcing all kinds of absurd rules, so having to wear a shirt or tank top is not the end of the world.
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raingod
Dec 31, 2005, 9:31 PM
Post #47 of 86
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In reply to: It's amazing to see all these responses from a bunch of assclowns who have no idea what they're talking about. The staff at VE is some of the most well trained in the country. No other gym that I have been to has anywhere close to the program in place to train the staff. This is for everything from top rope checks to teaching lead classes. If you think this has anything to do with faulty teaching or a staff member that doesn't know what they're doing then you're just dumb. VE in Chicago is within a Lifetime Fitness. 90% of the members at Lifetime are a bunch of whiney b---- who think they're entitled to everything and that the world revolves around them. So it's a fairly safe bet that this joker just waltzed right in and thought he could just clip in and start climbing. If you wrote that you work at a gym and that could never happen then you're naive. Unless of course your gym is the size of a closet. :!:
Most gyms I've been to have some form of entrance so the staff can see who is waltzing in. Then they have some form of belay card/membership card so the staff can tell who has been properly orientated etc...
This does not cancel out the need for personal responsibility of the person who had the accident, if you don't know what you are doing you shouldn't just assume you can figure it out
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csgambill
Dec 31, 2005, 10:31 PM
Post #48 of 86
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In reply to: Just for the record, I don't care if folks climb with their shirts on or off. But just take a second to think about where you are at. Lifetime Fitness is a high class upper end establishment, with all kinds of prissy b---- and CEO types that prefer a clean sterile environment. Unfortunately for climbers that means that if they enforce the shirt wearing rule everywhere else in that club, the same applies for the climbing wall. Climbing walls are not a large enough source of revenue for Lifetime that they wouldn't think twice about enforcing all kinds of absurd rules, so having to wear a shirt or tank top is not the end of the world.
Hey buddy, if you looked at my profile you may notice that I'm one of those executive types. Personally I don't care what my peers think of climbers taking their shirts off. Not to mention your obviously ignorant of the fact that this is not Lifetime's rule, but VE's rule. If I can't climb wearing what I choose or choose not to wear I may have to either:
A. Climb somewhere else... thereby leaving behind all my buddies and an otherwise great gym.
B. Build my own climbing gym across the street... If you've ever seen the movie Dodge Ball you know how this could turn out, although I have much better relationships with banks than the poor dude in that movie.
C. Bitch until the rule gets changed back to the way I like it... As you can tell I've chosen this option.
So Mr. ja sure you betcha Minnesota man, take that and go cleanse yourself in the waters of lake Minnetonka! Nah, I love MN. I actually matriculated at St. Olaf College down in Northfield.
I'm getting really sick of this thread. It needs to die.
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gonz
Dec 31, 2005, 11:08 PM
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In reply to: Not to mention your obviously ignorant of the fact that this is not Lifetime's rule, but VE's rule.
Yeah, what would I know, I only used to work for VE, am good freinds with the owner and manager of all three gyms, and helped build the place, as well as about 75% of all the other lifetime walls out there. VE is within the Lifetime Fitness, and one of the things they can do as a result is ask VE to have a rule, just like everywhere else under the roof, that members must be properly attired while working out, which includes climbing.
And don't feel like you're alone, my wife and I also fall under the stereotype of "Fancy Lady Doctor/CEO Rich Boy", we just choose not to endorse it and let those who take the time to get to know us choose whether or not we're assholes.
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reno
Jan 1, 2006, 1:16 AM
Post #50 of 86
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In reply to: It’s the fast food restaurant’s fault because I’m too fat.
This has been argued in court. As of yet, the plantiff hasn't won. Yet.
In reply to: The bar is responsible for my DUI because they served me.
This has been argued... and WON... in court. Worse, there have been cases where the patron got smashed at one bar, went to another bar and had one drink, then got the DUI. The second bar was liable, and paid a ton of money.
In reply to: The bicycle helmet manufacturer is responsible for my head injury because I didn’t put it on.
If you change this to "because they didn't instruct me on how to properly apply the helmet," then you've got a good case.
If you don't want to accept that the gym has a measure of culpability, that's your lookout. But they do have a duty, and from what I've read, it sounds like they failed in that duty.
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