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k.l.k
Nov 17, 2008, 10:24 PM
Post #26 of 37
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itstoearly wrote: [H]ow are other threads going to be any different?
In the earlier threads, the most knowledgeable folks weren't quite so sick of responding, and arguing, over the same topics. As a result, there have been a number of threads, in this forum, with responses from lots of folks with useful experience, some working professionals, and a certain amount of speculative dross from random passersby. But there have been some really good discussions.
Anyone could just enthusiastically post a new thread without thinking to search first. I won't flame you for doing that. But now that you've been advised to research the old threads, you tell us that's stupid advice. That's not a good approach.
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CSC0321
Nov 18, 2008, 4:08 AM
Post #28 of 37
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try isolating your bi's and tri's, but beware: exercise cannot be done properly without close examination of oneself using the life-sized mirror that has been provided. followed by dropping the weights loudly, and an immediate search of the area to see if anyone saw how badly you just crushed those 35rs
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itstoearly
Nov 19, 2008, 7:34 PM
Post #29 of 37
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borntorocku wrote: You could answer some of these questions if you want constructive feedback: In reply to: Not without knowing where you are at now, where you want to be, specific goals, current diet, etc. I don't know a cookie-cutter weight-lifting program for climbing. One possible exercise could be weighted pull-ups. A program for weighted pull-ups was outlined today on Mountain Athlete: http://mtnathlete.com/id285.html
The thing is, I'm not looking for a training routine, so much as just what are some of the better muscles to focus on to complement training. Should I focus on the muscles I use more in climbing? Should I try to excersize muscles not used as often in climbing, so I maintain a muscular balance? I really just want to avoid a big mistake more than I want to find the perfect workout routine. I have, for example, been told that if you only workout one muscle without working out its complementary muscle at all, you are more prone to injuries in the surrounding joints. I sport and toprope most of the time with a bit of bouldering, if that's at all relevant.
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borntorocku
Nov 19, 2008, 8:35 PM
Post #30 of 37
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It all depends (and you haven't given enough information to make an informed response). Are you using the weightroom as a substitute or an addition to climbing?
Stop thinking about muscles (unless you are competitive bodybuilder). I would think about possible imbalances. Your bench should equal your front squat, upper and lower body balance. Your bench should equal your weight plus weighted pull-up, push and pull balance. Do a little bit of research to find more.
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addicted2alpine
Nov 19, 2008, 9:12 PM
Post #31 of 37
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borntorocku wrote: Stop thinking about muscles (unless you are competitive bodybuilder). I would think about possible imbalances. .
I like this. this is pretty much right on when it comes to training for a specific sport. Strength coaches are supposed to get athletes stronger for their sport but that doesnt mean continually strengthening movements that you see in the sport. Much of their job is to eliminate imbalances to make sure the athlete doesnt get injured.
borntorocku wrote: Your bench should equal your front squat, upper and lower body balance. Your bench should equal your weight plus weighted pull-up, push and pull balance. Do a little bit of research to find more.
i dont like this though. bench equal your squat? thats crazy talk! that would mean you have shoulders and chest like arnold and but legs like a chicken. you should be able to squat much more than your bench. being well balanced does not mean that you can lift the same numbers with upper and lower body, it means that you arent letting muscles like your lats and chest overpower your rhomboids and traps, forcing your upper body into whats called internal rotation, for example.
you should try to get away from training muscles and focus on training movements. for instance, climbing requires a lot of vertical pulling (if you want to now muscles involved, think lats, rhomboids, biceps) so you would want to train that movement to get stronger (by, say, doing lat pulldowns or pullups) but you would want to spend even more time working the opposing muscle groups (Traps, pecs, triceps) because you already strengthen that movement while climbing. Now, most peoples day to day lives pull them into interior rotation to begin with (think sitting at a desk or in a car, bent at the waist, with shoulders slumped forward) so most people need a lot more work on the posterior muscles such as the glutes, traps, rhomboids, etc. to pull them back into a neutral position. Anyway, its difficult to tell you exactly what to work because training programs are very individualized and can change very much depending on what that person needs to focus on. Generally speaking though, work hard at training every fundamental movement of the body and you will naturally become stronger for climbing.
(This post was edited by addicted2alpine on Nov 19, 2008, 9:19 PM)
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borntorocku
Nov 19, 2008, 9:27 PM
Post #32 of 37
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I said front squat, i.e. bar racked across your clavicles, not back squat, i.e. bar racked across your back. Typically your front squat is 20% less than your back squat.
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robbovius
Nov 19, 2008, 9:53 PM
Post #33 of 37
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itstoearly wrote: Seeing as how my question was "(In a weight gym setting) what muscle groups should I really focus on to complement and comlpete my climbing workout? ", and I have received responses regarding kettlebells, using things not available in most weight gyms, and people typing stuff that does nothing to answer my question, how are other threads going to be any different? It's hard enough to get a straight, serious answer from anyone on these boards. Most people answer a question you didn't ask, or bitch about your question, or just pop in to say something unrelated, unimportant, and unhelpful.
... and welcome to Rockclimbing.com, both the blessing and the curse of the climbing world.
serious, answer:
light-ish weights, lots of reps on the muscle groups that are used most in climbing. pulldowns, rows, shrugs, lateral raises, light bench, incline and marine presses. FWD lunges @ bodyweight, side lunges at bodyweight (one legged squats are a climbing fundament, I've found ;-) ), MAYBE some squats, but don't go heavy on the bar. calf raises at bodyweight. MANY REPS. classic situps, crunches, leg raises, toe touches...
basically do all the usual weight training you might do for an overall body workout, but go light on the weight to aviod building bulk.
spend one day on chest with abs and legs, then the next on back with abs and legs. and the third day on climbing.
dont' go crazy with muscle specific things like curls or tricep extensions. a good overall body workout/general strengthening is the philosophy.
youi don't need any special tools/equipment. most weight rooms will have what you need to get the job done nicely.
that help?
(This post was edited by robbovius on Nov 19, 2008, 9:55 PM)
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addicted2alpine
Nov 19, 2008, 10:53 PM
Post #34 of 37
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borntorocku wrote: I said front squat, i.e. bar racked across your clavicles, not back squat, i.e. bar racked across your back. Typically your front squat is 20% less than your back squat.
ahh, missed that - makes things a lot different - and a bit more realistic.
robbovius wrote: basically do all the usual weight training you might do for an overall body workout, but go light on the weight to aviod building bulk.
I dont understand why people always think they have to go light to avoid building bulk. Your trying to get strong here. that requires lifting heavy weight. your not going to get huge unless you train to get huge. you can get strong without getting huge. and if you do put on a little size (which will probably happen if you start weight training and arent conditioned to it) who the hell cares, you likely just increased your strength to weight ratio in the process (and thats what is key in climbing)
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robbovius
Nov 20, 2008, 2:57 PM
Post #35 of 37
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addicted2alpine wrote: [ I dont understand why people always think they have to go light to avoid building bulk. Your trying to get strong here. that requires lifting heavy weight. your not going to get huge unless you train to get huge. you can get strong without getting huge. and if you do put on a little size (which will probably happen if you start weight training and arent conditioned to it) who the hell cares, you likely just increased your strength to weight ratio in the process (and thats what is key in climbing)
well, perhaps I shold clarify but replacing "light" with "Moderate". you want the weight you're lifting to become difficult to lift after 10-12 reps, so that you can keep going to 15 or so.
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addicted2alpine
Nov 20, 2008, 5:29 PM
Post #36 of 37
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robbovius wrote: addicted2alpine wrote: [ I dont understand why people always think they have to go light to avoid building bulk. Your trying to get strong here. that requires lifting heavy weight. your not going to get huge unless you train to get huge. you can get strong without getting huge. and if you do put on a little size (which will probably happen if you start weight training and arent conditioned to it) who the hell cares, you likely just increased your strength to weight ratio in the process (and thats what is key in climbing) well, perhaps I shold clarify but replacing "light" with "Moderate". you want the weight you're lifting to become difficult to lift after 10-12 reps, so that you can keep going to 15 or so.
not really. if your training strength for sport you should be lifting much heavier weights at much lower reps than what you specifiy. Why would you stop lifting a weight after 10-12 reps if you can lift it 15 reps? your not going to get strong doing that - considering your probably barely lifting 50% of your 1RM at that point. this is closer to muscular endurance and though, if your body isnt conditioned to resistance training, it might get you stroger than you are now its not going to maximize your strength potential
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headchop
Nov 21, 2008, 3:20 PM
Post #37 of 37
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If you want to get stronger without bulking too much, stick to a small number of reps (<6) at near maximum weight to train recruitment.
I would, however, only really recommend antagonist training (in this case, light weights). But if you really aren't getting in all that much climbing, lock-off training might be worthwhile - one-armed at different angles. Add assistance or additional weight, as required.
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