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verticalearth
Aug 14, 2001, 2:05 PM
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dear climb 512,
guess it is u who is ignorant and haven't been in a life and death situation u donot keep a written record on the face man only a fool would do that but after reaching the rescue site till evac arrives please keep a record write on the ground or keep it in ur mind because if the decision u have taken for the rescue and aid has gone wrong and causes a fatality. THE CHARGES COULD BE PRESSED ON U and the rest of ur climbing can be done behind bars believe me Iam a paramedic (hope I have caused no offence)
p.s. If u think if u carry a pen and pad in ur knapsac then ur sac will become heavy i donot know wat to say all the best in ur climbing friend:)
[ This Message was edited by: verticalearth on 2001-08-14 07:14 ]
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kriso9tails
Aug 17, 2001, 10:26 AM
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It's pretty pointless to rely on the written law. There are to many laws that sacrificed clarity for wordiness leaving them subjective semanticly, circumstancially, and through interpretation of application. All in all it seems to be whoever has the better lawyer in the end who wins. However, I'd rather be sued than let someone die needlessly, yet I have no useful training for something like a broken neck, so I'd do whatever I could, but not even attempt what I was unsure off, lest it be a desperate last chance effort. This is the point where ignorance can kill.
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climb512
Aug 17, 2001, 10:39 AM
Post #28 of 41
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lawyers suck! plain and simple. i pay over 9k a year in malpractice insurance, thanks to this suing crazed society,propagated by attorneys. the good samaritan rule protects you from being sued, not to give the right to the injured to seek damages. doesnt matter if you are certified or not as long as it is just first on the scene care and the proper authorities are contacted asap(medics,rangers..etc).YOU CANNOT BE SUED, so help if you can.
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verticalearth
Aug 17, 2001, 10:52 AM
Post #29 of 41
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yes guys help if u can it is verry difficult
to see a climbing partner, a friend or even a stranger die or wither in pain and not do anything hope we don't have to face a situation like that
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krillen
Aug 17, 2001, 3:07 PM
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Actually when you take first aid they tell you that you have to ASK the victem if they want your help and you have to inform them of your qualifications. If the are unconscious then you can take it as an affirmative answer. Of course thisis if you are TRAINED by st. John's ambulance. They also have a blanket coverage so if you do get sued but followed their proceedures you have legal coverage...IF the suit goes through. Hmmm...I should really retake my First Aid....re-cert.
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coach
Aug 17, 2001, 7:10 PM
Post #31 of 41
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In most states that have "Good Samaritan" laws the rule of thumb is that if a bystander decides to act as a good samaritan and chooses to intervene, he or she will be liable to the victim if rescue actions were unreasonable, and indeed aggravated the plight of the sufferer. The unreasonable portion is the reason many of us take first aid courses if we are in a role where possible injury may occur. We have some legal protection if what we do is considered reasonable. This doesn't mean you can't be sued, it only means that if you are sued you will have some protection if what you did was reasonable. Either way, I don't think I would stand by and simply watch an injured party suffer. If help is on the way take the basic life saving steps (stop bleeding, start breathing, protect wound, treat for shock) but if help is not coming do what you can.
Climb On
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climb512
Aug 17, 2001, 9:14 PM
Post #32 of 41
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i think common sense dictates what you do, and the good sam law was passed to protect people who were getting sued for helping out, they were suing even when no wrong was done and it was a family/victom coerced by a lawyer(scum sucking pigs) do take legal action. that is when joe average stoped helping for fear of losing his/her house.
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climb512
Aug 17, 2001, 9:22 PM
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vertical, i take no offense, i responded after a bad day. i just run into a lot of people who are classroom smart and have no practical exp. i spent 4 years of med school/4 yrs interning and when i got done i still felt classroom smart and learned very fast that classroom is the classroom and real life...completely different. i am an orthopedic by day and climber when i can, a few more years and i hope to reverse that. so i apologize for getting out of line with your posting, keep on climbing!
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verticalearth
Aug 18, 2001, 8:58 AM
Post #34 of 41
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hay climb512 thanx firstly for taking the issue in the spirit u just made a friend any time in india just call and will take u to some reall good climbs and to tell u the truth even after all the FA courses and mock sessions that I have done there is still a real life and death situation that I have not faced there have been accidents but well within the reach what I want to ask is that when faced with one real critical situation do these rules and steps matter can we be in control of the situation at the moment cause there have been cases when at the moment of truth people falter I do not want that to happen to me what should I do to be prepared mentally thanx again
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triznut
Aug 18, 2001, 10:00 AM
Post #35 of 41
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Registered: Jul 26, 2000
Posts: 96
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Most of you are all funny. We all know rockclimbing is dangerous. If it wasen't, then people won't die or get hurt. And to be honest. I personaly get a kick out of the mental game you know leaving that bolt or pro down below you. If their wasn't that thrill factor, then climbing would be just as boring as working out at a SPA (but with a better view). Unless you have alot of fine women around you. Anyway let not kid ourselfs. Climbing is dangerous and the odds are against us. They will never be for us. But of course if you have experience and your partner or partners do as well and you have common sence then you can greatly reduce the odds. But I don't care what anybody says. Climbing is dangerous and you can check evey micro detail with (weather, equip. etc....) because sometimes it doesn't show up or have signs until it happens).We are dealing with mother nature and just like you can't control the weather or even always know what it is going to do nexted, or know what rock might come down and smash you (there are rocks out their that even a helmet won't do much for you if it hits you.). All I'm trying to say is we cannot control all the factors. So if you think it is dangerous or not just have fun and don't do stupid things to greaten the risk of injury or death. Thanks.
DAMN I WISH THESE HAD SPELL CHECKERS!!!!!
[ This Message was edited by: triznut on 2001-08-18 03:04 ]
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climb512
Aug 18, 2001, 10:26 AM
Post #36 of 41
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vertical, when it comes to a life/death situation it boils down to your character. how you react to split second decision making. i ve seen guys come from the best schools and fail completely when under pressure. so part of it is training, but a lot has to do with the person. maybe someday you can make it to new york.
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verticalearth
Aug 18, 2001, 3:05 PM
Post #37 of 41
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talking about shock does anybody have any parafernelia bout hypovolumic shock please mail me at mountainiya@yahoo.com thank u
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verticalearth
Aug 18, 2001, 5:05 PM
Post #38 of 41
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I had thought over here the topics posted would be taken as topics for the whole community to see and reply this dosent seem to be happening in some cases wat was wrong in asking about hypovolumic shock in this forum PLEASE REPLY
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climb512
Aug 18, 2001, 6:12 PM
Post #39 of 41
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it is shock induced by low blood volume
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verticalearth
Aug 19, 2001, 9:02 AM
Post #40 of 41
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in case of a CLW (contured lacerated wound )
and exsesive bleeding u might go into hypovolumic shock but my problem is that in such a case in the mountains what r the prelimenery steps to be taken and what is the point of no return for such victims
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snuffyalpine
Sep 3, 2001, 3:52 AM
Post #41 of 41
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Registered: Apr 19, 2001
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somebody said earlier that a certificate really doesn't mean anything- and well I guess I agree, but the training to get it should mean something. I'm sure most people that have been climbing a while can figure out most ways of getting people down saftely, but I guarantee that with training you can do it a whole lot quicker. As for treating shock......if you think its going to be a problem go buy a book or take a med class. I've never seen a good med. book meant for climbers but I would recommend "Emergency Care" which is available at almost any local college (its the standard EMT training book) and if you've been climbing for a while chances are you've met some doctors or such, ask them, and they can (legally) help you get the right medicines for your bag.
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