Well well well.

Curt, I am guessing you had at least one carabiner and maybe even three. Here's one more thing you could have done, assuming the rope was long enough.....

Now, if you are serious and not trolling, I'm willing to TR on your shoe belay, as long as you will share the scotch, because, for one thing I'm betting that you could hold a typical TR 'fall' with no belay method other than two hands on the rope. Assuming you did slip and fall, as long as you did not let go of the rope, no great tragedy would follow, and I'm guessing that YOU and probably your friends have the sense to know that no matter what the belay method is, you just have to do one thing for it to be successful, and that is, DON'T LET GO OF THE ROPE!

So now I have some questions:

Is this a joke or is it serious?

If the answer to the last question is, "It's serious.", then,
How did you set the top rope up?

What does JT have to say about this new belay method?

Did you have both hands on the brake side while lowering? Sorry, couldn't resist.

is quite possible, and in fact easy to move around using this belay--lifting your foot is not a problem and does not fuck up the belay

I will give you an A+ for inventiveness, and creativity. however there just, to me anyway, seems to be too many factors to make this reliably safe dude. I will throw in a quick moment of vertigo in for the list of things that could cause this to fail. I get 'em and I know that I'm not the only ones. lift your foot even just a few inches and you run the risk of the rope slipping off your foot. a hip belay, however waaaaaaaaaay more ungodly uncomfortable, just seems to have less chinks in its safety armor

Congrats on developing a new belay technique that worked for you. I would have to see this in person and in live action to fully discount it as unsafe. afterall I said that the overhand knot for rappel was unsafe until I saw it in action too.

Kman can you see the looks on peoples faces if we were to bring this one out at Grassi Lakes. HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA ah man that would be funnnnnnny

PS curt, I've sent this over to a budddy of mine who is full mountain guide to see what he thinks of it. I'll let you know what the findings are.

I will reword it then. While lowering or while catching a fall you can lift your foot up without f'ing the belay? What if your moving and the guy falls?

Can't think of a situation for why you would even want to use this.

And, I don't aid climb--its cheating, to a free climber, that is. Haha.
Curt

Well, it sounds like you may at least have an open mind. I have already suggested a way you can try this for yourself, with no risk at all. Do this and then let me know what your thoughts are. I guarantee that this looks way more hairball than it actually is.

We tried that too and you are correct. However, we didn't like that method for a couple reasons. Principally, because the arm strength required to catch a falling climber with that method is quite high and your forearms arms get tired. So, when it is your turn to climb--you're pumped. I do not recommend that method.

I have already given several reasons.

While lowering or while catching a fall you can lift your foot up without f'ing the belay? What if your moving and the guy falls?

Yeah, I think so and I don't think that is a huge problem.

My point here was, that if you were using your new method, and a wlid boar suddenly burst out of the woods and bit off your brake leg, as long as you did not let go of the rope, the climber would not hit the ground. What you would do about your missing leg and the now drunk (on good scotch at least) wild boar would be for another thread.

I'll still ride on this belay, given some decent scotch and a wild boar free environment.

It's called short term memory. A result of many years of pot smoking and heavy lsd use lol.






I am going to try it and see what happens ( in a safe situation ). I am willing to bet on the following:
1. I will be able to hold a simple tr fall and lower.
2. My 105 pound wife will not be able to hold me.
3. If I take my foot off the ground while lowering I will probably loose control.

I am also curious how hard it is to move a little bit while lowering.

Whatever. I think you're wearing the Andrea Bocelli t-shirt. Now if THAT don't scream gumby, I don't know what does 8-)

course, you seem to be some sort of expert on this belay technique in spite of your total ignorance of it

Yeah, but you're an old trad climber who actually knows how things work. What are you doing posting in this thread anyway? This thread has long ago turned into a forum for gumbies like kman and others who don't wear long pants yet to expound vacuously on things they have no understanding of. Haha.

Curt

Andrea Bocelli is great. Gumbies do not listen to Andrea Bocelli. Anyway, climbing attire-wise, the Prana pants ought to offset the Bocelli t-shirt, don't you think? Haha.

Curt

O.k. time to clarify things a bit instead of mud slinging.

I never claimed to be any kind of "expert". I never doubted that you could hold a tr fall with it. What I said was if you need to dodge a rock (add:) while under load you'd be screwed. And I still think so. It would be hard to move while under load without losing it. That is all.

I will use 3 biners as you did. The place where I will try it out will have to be so that It will run throught the 3 biners directly to the belayer without touching any rock...since I am doing it at home.

My wife weighs 105 lbs and I am 180. I would be very suprised if she can hold it. It would be possible if enough friction was introduced though.

I still think that when I lift my foot off the ground while under load it's going to be damn sketch to maintain control.

I still think that it is not a "very safe" method. However, I would take a pro using this method over a noob with a gri gri.....in the right situation.

For optimum radness, you should coat the left cheek of your pranas in pink gatorade. I think my berry punch gatorade stain gave me mojo this weekend. Too bad I didn't have a Bocelli shirt, I might have gotten a B1 that way 8-)

It does seem that you are befuddled by relatively simple things.

Once again, you are wrong on all counts.

Of course, you seem to be some sort of expert on this belay technique in spite of your total ignorance of it.

The problem here is that neither of you two geniuses even have the slightest idea of what you're talking about.

Canadians aren't smart enough to figure it out.

Also, a gumby is someone who speaks out of their ass about things they have no knowledge of. In other words--you.

Form the looks of this, the biggest concern I would have would be the difficulty moving, say, to dodge a rock, which probably was no factor on that slab.

-Jay

However, she would not be able to hold you with a conventional belay either

"I believe that if the climber were to fall at that exact moment the belay would still work."

What people have to keep in mind about Curt, is that he is infallible.

Just look at some of his statements:


You see, Curt is always right! He has to be right. He has consulted 85 years of climbing experience that tells him it's safe; therefor, all of us must be wrong.

How could we possibly argue with "being a gumby" ?

Curt is just right!

We should follow in his example: use "old chunks" of rope to climb on, leave our harnesses, biners, and belay device at home. Climb without helmets, and learn to be as experienced and resourceful as Curt.

We should ignore the critisizms of other "gumby's" who question our superiority, whether they be certified guides or boulder toads new to belay techniques.

Curt has found a way for us to forget almost all of our formerly essential climbing gear at home, and still rope up and climb..."safely"!

How could anyone possibly question him?!?

Take notice here guys...we're witnessing history.

Couldn't get pulled off balance moving around with one leg in the air could you?

naw!

Wow. Your profile says that you have been climbing for three whole years now. Such vast experience you have. Obviously everyone here should listen to you. Do you really think you look very intelligent putting your climbing credentials up against mine, or Brent Bingham's or Chris Raypole's? They are the other guys who developed this belay technique with me last weekend. Give it a break n00b. Oh, and don't forget to clean off the mirror after you pop your zits before going to bed tonight, kid. There is no reason to leave your mother with that mess to deal with.

Curt