Actually, no. I thought your response was spot on!

[..]I have a basic idea of how the class (which is 4 full days long, 8am-7pm) will go, but I'm looking for cool suggestions to include in the curriculum. [..]They have plenty of other classes, (like ice climbing, Rope Techniques, Rope Rescue, physical training, etc), but I will be teaching a sport/lead class and would love to hear some cool suggestions!

To answer your question about experience, I've only been climbing for two years, yes. I've been manager here for a little over a year now, and I'd say I've learned from the best,

[..]So, I'm basically charged with giving the 12-15 students a complete introduction to rock climbing and lead climbing as a building block for bigger things to come.[..]

I won't be teaching how to build anchors, but I will do a small intro on them,

The students are recieving National Ranger Training Institute Cert.'s on Rappelling and Rope Techniques, and Vertical Rope Rescue (I've already completed both) where they learn all about anchors from a very skilled teacher.

Jay, Socal and jim
Thank you all for wasting, more or less, an hour of my life and work time with this extremely enlightening pissing match.

Socal Climber... can I sign up for your sniping driving school???? That sounds pretty cool and it would go over very well when I commute to DC

MarkC is again spot on point. Yes, I am over the top. I'm that way in person as well. Regardless, I know so many talented climbers that would make terrible guides. Again see my earlier post the climbing is #6 on the top 5 things that make a good guide.

Nicely put.

Absolutely. My class will cost you $220/day, cash up front. It will have guns and lots of bullets and stuff, plus a ton of alchohol. We can shoot stuff, then you can go to Iraq now fully trained by me to defend yourself and your country. Don't worry, you'll be safe. I'll even give you a certificate stating that you indeed have graduated from the Robert Fonda school of shooting.

A good friend of mine who knows a ton about fire arms recently said "Don't worry, if you get into a gun fight with Robert, just stand in front of him. You'll be perfectly safe".

So, who's on board. I'm ready to start making money in my new found line of work..... After all, I'm an expert.

My issue is the difference between knowing how to do something (even with a good amount of proficiency) and being able to teach it. [..]

Tisar wrote:

"Fully agreed, to the rest of your post also...."

How dare you hijack an already hijacked thread. Oh, the shame....

What other discipline teaches beginners by the method of trial-and-error?
Jay

"Yes, that's a good point about accidently glossing over stuff because it's become second nature.


Now onto more important things! Socal, will laser scopes be available? Also, bring some of those hard hats that say "don't mess with texas" on the front the with a pint on each side and rubber sip straws coming down. "

Okay, this is getting good. We now have a marketing plan. Pure inspiration. I'll even pay you for your creative input. Maybe we could use things like fluffy bunnies and kittens for targets. Hey, I'm an engineer, I bet we could even make them scream when we shoot them.....

Boy am I liking this.... Anyone from PETA wanna sign up???

Not going to sling mud......but Jim probably tries to act more experienced than he is.

bebop is inevitably going to teach this course whether you berate him about his lack of experience or not.

And you're PROBABLY talking out' your ass. I have yet to lie about my experience on here. What I've stated is my opinion, and based on the experience I've gathered, starting off in an apprenticeship role and coming to be a trainer for a place I work(ed) for.

But, I reviewed all the posts I made in this thread, anyway...and I'm still sticking to what I said.


This is the point that we all agree on, but think about differently. I've stressed the importance on consulting a professional guide about this matter...but the fact of it is, a lot of people never will do that. Countless people learn from people under worse circumstances than we have here. No-one here is gonna talk someone out of doing something, certainly not in the tone many other users have used in their posts.

While these might not be a course to becoming a trad daddy, overnight...it's a lot more instruction than some people get!

Many people on this site would rather offer up "your a n00b...leave this stuff to the real men around here" than actually post something usefull and somewhat informative...even if it is just their own opinion.

So do people put on this "yur gonna DIE n00b!" face, just to be mean? or because they're terrified somebody is gonna quote their rc.com post in court? The OP is trying to be cautious, no live leads, asking for SUGGESTIONS not what he "needs" to be teaching...so what's the big fuckin' deal? Half of the people you have running climbing programs for the boy scouts are on the same or lower tiers of experience as the OP...doesn't make it even close to ideal...but it's not like were gonna stop em!!!

I get a friggin hoot out of this...but about the only way you can try and stop inexperienced people from teaching/ guiding above their ability levels is to mandate certifications. If you all can think of a better way, let me know....but slinging insults on the internet isn't it. I can see people cringing at the mere mention of this...but if that's your goal, how else are you going to achieve it? Don't quote me as saying this is what SHOULD be done, but IF you want to keep inexperienced people out of leadership roles...this is probably the biggest step you could take.

If you don't like my opinions, don't read my posts. The OP found my advice helpful, some of you even found it entertaining! Wonderful!!

Those of you who want to debate my opinions, I'll welcome the discussion if you do it in a reasonable tone. But giving me shit about overstating my experience...unless you've met me, how the hell would you know?

Jim

That's all fine and dandy... but the important thing here is, are you a good shot?



Smile everybody, it's friday. It's supposed to be 67 tomorrow and Seneca becons...