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johnwesely
Jan 29, 2010, 8:14 PM
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Gmburns2000 wrote: Parkerkat wrote: I’d trust their decision based on user behavior over anyone griping on RC.com. - JW with his trolls If that ^^ doesn't win the fight then we've got more in the tank. I think the above list is hardly the beginning of the potential we've got here.
Honestly, I work at Apple, and the Ipad was my idea.
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johnwesely
Jan 29, 2010, 8:20 PM
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kriso9tails wrote: johnwesely wrote: Parkerkat wrote: Dude, at this point I will call you out as an old man shaking your cane as some newfangled technology beyond your ability to understand. I am hardly an old man, and I love technology. That answers my longstanding question as to who buys Fleshlights.
Pervs?
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kriso9tails
Jan 29, 2010, 8:21 PM
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Oh, guess I misinterpreted 'love'.
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johnwesely
Jan 29, 2010, 8:25 PM
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kriso9tails wrote: Oh, guess I misinterpreted 'love'.
I meant it more in the "think it is great" way.
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Parkerkat
Jan 29, 2010, 8:48 PM
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No, You just act like an old man.
Not one to use an external keyboard for the times you need to write an essay? docking station? Obviously if your purpose is to get a machine for massive amounts of work - This clearly is not the product for you. You make a moot argument? are you hoping for some magical machine that is everythign to everyone? You've lost me here which is a sign you have no point!
You've flipped your argument - first it was that this won't work for climbing apps, now you're whinning about the corporate SYSTEM and not liking the application coding platform?
Sorry man, but you say my final argument is not a good one.
You call out my final argument as a bad one... Show me Apples list of Stupid business decisions? Show me how they have lost revenue in recent years? show me how they are not smarter than you? if yuo only argument is their monopoly on their own product - Sorry - that is not a good one either.
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johnwesely
Jan 29, 2010, 8:51 PM
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Parkerkat wrote: No, You just act like an old man. Not one to use an external keyboard for the times you need to write an essay? docking station? Obviously if your purpose is to get a machine for massive amounts of work - This clearly is not the product for you. You make a moot argument? are you hoping for some magical machine that is everythign to everyone? You've lost me here which is a sign you have no point!
I am saying it is a bad product because products that cost half as much do twice as much.
In reply to: You've flipped your argument - first it was that this won't work for climbing apps, now you're whinning about the corporate SYSTEM and not liking the application coding platform?
Now you are confused. I never said anything about it working or not working as a guidebook.
In reply to: Sorry man, but you say my final argument is not a good one. You call out my final argument as a bad one... Show me Apples list of Stupid business decisions? Show me how they have lost revenue in recent years? show me how they are not smarter than you? if yuo only argument is their monopoly on their own product - Sorry - that is not a good one either.
It was a bad argument because it was a blind appeal to an authority. An argument based on a logical fallacy is a poor argument.
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kriso9tails
Jan 29, 2010, 9:07 PM
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johnwesely wrote: I am saying it is a bad product because products that cost half as much do twice as much.
Which products?
(edited due to lactose intolerance)
(This post was edited by kriso9tails on Jan 29, 2010, 10:24 PM)
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johnwesely
Jan 29, 2010, 9:15 PM
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kriso9tails wrote: johnwesely wrote: I am saying it is a bad product because products that cost half as much do twice as much. In reply to: Which products? Netbooks.
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johnwesely
Jan 29, 2010, 9:16 PM
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And cheesetits.
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majid_sabet
Jan 29, 2010, 9:23 PM
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I do not understand why people need guide book. 30 years ago, there were no guide book. may be few book on Everest or k2 but these days, there is a freaking guide book on how to climb a 4 feet high rock in Santa Monica beach
com on people
are you handicap ,slow or have IQ deficiency that you can look at a route and figure things on your own ?
how the heck those before us who nailed those rocks climbed when they could not even write ?
this climbing thing is turning in to how deliver a baby for idiot and some (called master of whatever) are making money publishing bunch of stupid books on how to do this and that thinking, they are really doing something good.
fuc* all guide books
get your sh*t, go to Island, look at the wall and do it or die and leave that stupid book at home
a true climber should figure shi* on their own and without guidebook or topobook or whatever the fuc* you call them.
sincerely yours
a true wannabee climber
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Jan 29, 2010, 9:25 PM)
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i_h8_choss
Jan 29, 2010, 9:23 PM
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Gmburns2000 wrote: i_h8_choss wrote: xaniel2000 wrote: A guidebook in any form is a poor substitute for a friendly local  Nice.....  Beta from a real mouth. This I like alot ! [quickly searches to find a way to get his blog to read to blog readers]
Aahhh Burnsie, can I call you Burnsie? I think when I'm a hundred and twenty years old, I'll put "read Burnsie's blog" on my bucket list. 
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Gmburns2000
Jan 29, 2010, 9:33 PM
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i_h8_choss wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: i_h8_choss wrote: xaniel2000 wrote: A guidebook in any form is a poor substitute for a friendly local Nice..... Beta from a real mouth. This I like alot ! [quickly searches to find a way to get his blog to read to blog readers] Aahhh Burnsie, can I call you Burnsie? I think when I'm a hundred and twenty years old, I'll put "read Burnsie's blog" on my bucket list.
WOW! Only one more year! Suhweet!!!
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kriso9tails
Jan 29, 2010, 9:46 PM
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This isn't really true though. Netbooks and the iPad are somewhat dissimilar products. The point of the iPad is to offer something that has a more organic, user-friendly interface. The point of a netbook is to be small, cheap, and awkward so that you don't really give a shit if it breaks or gets stolen.
Okay, maybe that's not fair, but even if both products are aiming at a similar middle ground, they're doing it in different ways.
I don't know why anyone would try to use the iPad as a laptop. Personally, I consume a lot of digital media. Books, music, television, movies, news (etc.). The iPad is geared towards this type of usage.
(This post was edited by kriso9tails on Jan 29, 2010, 9:47 PM)
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desertwanderer81
Jan 29, 2010, 10:06 PM
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We still have a bit to go to get this technology wise.
1) Download rates and areas need to increase, a lot.
or
2) Storage space needs to increase, a lot.
I'm sure you could put this on an i-pad, but ultimately it will find its home on smaller, more mobile devises such as the iPhones, Google Phones, and Blackberries.
Eventually they will implement cross-phone code which will allow developers to make their products for all smart-phones simultaneously. When will this happen? Not till they get their heads out of their asses, but it will happen eventually.
The guide books will integrate themselves into online forums with an accent log type feature.
One feature which I am fairly sure will be present will be the ability to take a picture of the base of a route then have the application automatically tell you what the route is with the photo recognition system.
How long will this take? I'd imagine that the guidebooks will come piecemeal for the phones/kindles/ipads from various map makers. Expect these to start coming out for remote areas in 1-2 years. Sometime afterwards, you will be able to subscribe to supertopo/whatever and download be able to download guidebooks for a specific area.
A year or two after that, they will start including electronic maps of the climbing areas and use your GPS to identify where you are in relation to the climbs. At the same time, or shortly after you will be able to access your online accent log on your phone. After that, photo identification of the base of routes will be available.
Depending on technology and the integration of code for the phones, I suspect that we will see a fully interactive guidebook within 5 years.
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sspssp
Jan 29, 2010, 11:32 PM
Post #90 of 151
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majid_sabet wrote: I do not understand why people need guide book. 30 years ago, there were no guide book. com on people are you handicap ,slow or have IQ deficiency that you can look at a route and figure things on your own ? how the heck those before us who nailed those rocks climbed when they could not even write ? get your sh*t, go to Island, look at the wall and do it or die and leave that stupid book at home a true climber should figure shi* on their own and without guidebook or topobook or whatever the fuc* you call them.
If you want to go someplace and spend days wandering around and figuring out which is what and do dozens of chossy routes for every gem, then sure go for it and have your adventure.
I've been there, done that. Don't need to do that again.
Or alternately if you are in the local "cool" crowd and can get the beta from those that have gone before you.
I would rather be able to show up someplace new where I don't know anyone local. Be able to quickly find the quality routes that are an appropriate challenge for me and have a general idea of the rack that might be needed. And not be dependent on finding friendly locals (although I certainly enjoy it when I do).
I mean you could have an adventure trying to drive around LA without map. Come on, be manly, fuc that google map sh*t.
(This post was edited by sspssp on Jan 29, 2010, 11:35 PM)
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majid_sabet
Jan 30, 2010, 2:44 AM
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you right
I am such a dumb guy who never thought about GPS for climbers where you could press the key in IPHONE and bang, here is a picture of the crack with #1 BD right where I am about to place mine
climbing is about adventure where you got to figure things up on your own. Following all these stupid guidebook is like going in to autopilot mode where you fly to Patagonia thinking that in Dec 14, weather will be nice cause they said so in the stupid book but then you freeze your ass off for weeks pushing snow out of the tent
I go to other countries and see climbers climb much harder than those in North America and without a book cause they got none and here, climbers are turning in to puss*ies following a bible all day long
hey is this rock the jack 5.10 C?
walk 1.768 mile then turn right
you will see a dead tree
make a left and go .375 mile to big rock
measure 3.87 feet from edge of the round rock and you will see a crack called " deadguidebook"
place BD #1 6.5 feet on the first hole and then place Alien # 2, 13 feet higher......blah blah blah
once you reach the top, run 15 feet of 1" webbing using the two dead tree as your rap anchor....blah blah
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Jan 30, 2010, 2:47 AM)
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louBlissab
Jan 30, 2010, 3:40 AM
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Guide-book on an I-pod to take on a climb? What, another piece of equipment to bring? What about committing the route description to memory or using notes.
Too much reliance on technology and not enough "old-school" out-door skills!
The whole point of climbing, hiking, backpacking, canoeing...etc (in my opinion) is to get away from the technology and the accountability of todays lifestyle and to use your own god-giving and personally developed outdoor skills and judgment to get into, to navigate through and to get out of the wilderness experience in one piece and live to do it again.
Heck, most people who find themselves outdoors these days cannot even use a compass and a map to navigate in the wilderness. "Where's my GPS, cell-phone, I-pad, lap-top..."where the hell am I. No worries, I'll just use my cell-phone to call in a rescue".
How lost would these people be, when the batteries die-out.
Just my opinion for whatever its worth. Climb safe!
AB
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socalclimber
Jan 30, 2010, 4:08 AM
Post #93 of 151
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While the iphone, ipad, or what ever "smart" device may exist, I think guide books are definately on their way out the door. I own lot's of them, but I have certainly down loaded what I needed for a given area and just take the print outs with me.
You really don't need the "smart" device, just print out what you want and off you go.
(This post was edited by socalclimber on Jan 30, 2010, 4:09 AM)
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mheyman
Jan 30, 2010, 5:18 AM
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I thought I was going to have a gps and I'd be informed of every move via audo and my head up display.
Guess it should warn me of falling rock in time and the like too!
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gmggg
Jan 30, 2010, 1:42 PM
Post #96 of 151
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louBlissab wrote: The whole point of climbing, hiking, backpacking, canoeing...etc (in my opinion) is to get away from the technology and the accountability of todays lifestyle and to use your own god-giving and personally developed outdoor skills and judgment to get into, to navigate through and to get out of the wilderness experience in one piece and live to do it again.
This is such a load of garbage. I don't know you, but I will venture out on a limb and say that you have no outdoor skills, and neither do the extreme majority of people. I agree that a smartphone guidebook is frivolous, but so is most of the outdoor "gear" that people lug out for their two day wilderness experience. Just take a quick look at your camping gear and clothing and divide it into two pile necessary and luxurious. Go ahead...you can't truly do this. You/We have been indoctrinated to a point where the basics have become extravagant. disclaimer: I don't that there is anything wrong with this, but there is no reason to ignore it.
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dingus
Jan 30, 2010, 2:38 PM
Post #97 of 151
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The big problem with guidebooks is the rampant theft of the material by those who post known routes to online databases pretending it is their own, original material.
Like the routes db on this board, it contains hundreds of such thefts.
Go ahead and use that plagiarized beta. Go ahead and document every last shred of climbbable rock everywhere, put it all in your GPS.
Have a nice convenient life.
And when you open one of those old relics (we called them BOOKS) harken back to a time when not all was known, when there were still white places on the maps.
Enjoy your stolen music on your iPod, stolen movie on your IPad, stolen beta on your iPhone. Its all a brave new world!
DMT
ps. I don't exempt myself from the above critique, btw. I do have done it too. We need to think about this shit. Its not too late to delete, you know. Repent, delete, whatever you want to call it.
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chrisJoosse
Jan 30, 2010, 9:47 PM
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i_h8_choss wrote: Yeah and people will immediately update thier blogs as soon as they get off the climb, still pumped, light up a ciggy, and tell the interweb all about thier sick send. Blogger fans will be standing by, waiting for the update. Call me old-school.....but technology is pretty lame sometimes. It takes away the purity and art in certain things.
Fortunately, with technology you can largely choose what content you consume. Sure, there will always be the chest-beating spray, whole tribes organize themselves around that stuff. That's not a problem with tech, it's a problem with people.
Nothing is taken away when someone blags their 'sick send'.
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mabijou
Jan 30, 2010, 11:10 PM
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i dunno about anybody else, but if ppl start bringing laptops to the crag, not the crowd i would really wanna be around at the crag. I would cry, cause thats not what climbing is about and i would not wanna c the day that i would not want a guidebook, like for the Red River Gorge. (going through the pages, the routes, ppl u have climbed with, etc... PRICELESS!
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chrisJoosse
Jan 31, 2010, 12:08 AM
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slavetogravity wrote: The best part is that this technology will allow smaller, lesser known areas that could never justify the publication of a proper guide book to get published. Wait, what?
Sort of like http://www.mountainproject.com ?
One of the great things about technology is that it already allows people to coordinate and contribute to common projects in ways that scale massively- witness Wikipedia's success in the face of competition from established encyclopedias. Wikipedia is the success it is because people with expertise and knowledge want to contribute- all that was lacking before was a way to organize their contributions. I expect that guide books in their current form will eventually give way to crowd-sourced content aggregators in similar fashion... if a single problem can be solved: how to carry the wiki-guide with you so you can read it when you want to change plans and you're in the field. For that, today, a book is still the best solution- or when weight is an issue, printed pages in a ziploc bag.
As hardware gets better, I suspect we'll see the sort of breakout app/device game-changer you're talking about, but I doubt the iPad is that- yet. There are a number of problems that are yet to be solved: archive storage, retrieval and presentation, durability, portability, power- and the iPad seems not to deal with many of these isses. It's not clear how it'll be any more than incrementally better than any other tablet device or laptop.
And I'm hungry for that to happen, for the record. Today's book experience leaves a lot to be desired. Books are heavy, bulky, come in non-standard sizes, and wear out. They are expensive to create, inefficient to market and distribute, have non-standard indices, can't be searched or updated. Their manufacture is environmentally problematic in a lot of ways as well. I have cubic yards of books I'd gladly trade for digital equivalents... if I could just know how to store it that'll work 10 years from now.
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