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sidepull
May 10, 2006, 8:17 PM
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Which should not imply that the discussions on that board are that different in their sense of outrage:
http://www.supertopo.com/...ic_id=190843&f=0&b=0
Dingus - it seems people disagree with your take on both boards? What about b.com - oh wait, bvb climbed D-arch back in '77 (insert expletive here).
I find it telling that Climbing has yet to post a "hot flash" - I would bet they're pretty ambivalent about how to couch this, Dean is a golden child in that rag but he's placed himself in the role of a pariah.
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dingus
May 10, 2006, 8:36 PM
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In reply to: Dingus - it seems people disagree with your take on both boards?
Yes, absolutely. 3 boards actually.
The publicity thing? You folks have convinced me, twas a bad idea. I'm on board.
But the law and order crowd, the 'climbing is dead and you MUST obey the law?' folks? Bite me.
The 'what gives the mighty Dean Potter the right to do this! The ARROGANCE!' group? I don't buy that line of reasoning at all either.
I think the outrage is misplaced. A yawn would be a more telling reaction, specially with respect to Potter.
DMT
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dingus
May 10, 2006, 8:51 PM
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In reply to: There was no loophole.
Maybe you should tell that to the National Park Service?
In reply to: Arches acting Chief Ranger Karen McKinlay-Jones believes Potter's actions on Sunday violated the intent of park regulations but said the park's solicitor advised that Potter cannot be prosecuted because the regulation "was not worded well."
Loophole. Case closed it would seem.
DMT
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the_mitt
May 10, 2006, 8:51 PM
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(This post was edited by the_mitt on Nov 19, 2006, 6:39 PM)
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sidepull
May 10, 2006, 8:57 PM
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In reply to: The publicity thing? You folks have convinced me, twas a bad idea. I'm on board.
In reply to: But the law and order crowd, the 'climbing is dead and you MUST obey the law?' folks? Bite me.
In reply to: The 'what gives the mighty Dean Potter the right to do this! The ARROGANCE!' group? I don't buy that line of reasoning at all either.
If you disagree with that argument then Potter's send was still done in a public way but for personal "feel the vibrations" reasons. That combination of public spectacle and private acheivement does make it arrogant, more so because he was wrong to do it.
In reply to: I think the outrage is misplaced. A yawn would be a more telling reaction, specially with respect to Potter. |
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lonnie_utah
May 10, 2006, 8:59 PM
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For his next feat, Potter has announced that he will scale Washington's nose at Mt. Rushmore....
L
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jaybro
May 10, 2006, 9:00 PM
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Dingus is being modest because he may be uncomfortable with how many people pretty much agree with what he said.
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slcathena
May 10, 2006, 9:06 PM
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In reply to: For his next feat, Potter has announced that he will scale Washington's nose at Mt. Rushmore.... L
lol. Nice.
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dingus
May 10, 2006, 9:08 PM
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In reply to: I think the Camp 4 hey day is long gone. I don't think that means that the rebelious spirit in climbing has died, although we do tend to dress better which leads to . . .
There may be a flicker left in your soul but many have voiced the opinion that laws must be observed. That is cut and dry... and I bet good money most of them speed to the crags too.
In reply to: Sponsored athletes, by virtue of being sponsored do have more impact on their sports and how people perceive the people that participate in the sport.
In reply to: That combination of public spectacle and private acheivement does make it arrogant, more so because he was wrong to do it.
Fine, you believe it was arrogant. Do Arches regulations prohibit that too?
In reply to: I think the outrage is misplaced. A yawn would be a more telling reaction, specially with respect to Potter.
I mean a great sound and fury on the internet is fun and all and it has been demonstrated that it can cost people their jobs in the world, but this is mostly feel good venting with no real expectation of a result.
If you want Pattigucci and Potter to really feel your angst... never EVER buy anything from anyone who has anything to do with either of them. That's what I mean.
Cheers man
DMT
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rock_gizmo
May 10, 2006, 9:12 PM
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I would have to say it is irresponsible for Potter to do or even to attempt to climb an Arch in the park. I also think corporation such as Black Diamond and Patagonia etc who are huge sponsor of environmental and conservations issues would support such a climber in their ranks. It is my own opinion but any corporation who sponsors someone to climb also agrees with the ethical choices of that individual and their choice of routes they decide to climb. If climbing corporation or magazines continue to sponsor such an act by supporting the individual economically or by publishing article on them, they have doomed the environment to senseless acts. :( :evil:
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slcathena
May 10, 2006, 9:17 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Sponsored athletes, by virtue of being sponsored do have more impact on their sports and how people perceive the people that participate in the sport. This isn't a debate in a logic class. I'm telling you I don't give a damn about Potter's image or role model, not positive, not negative. I DO NOT CARE.
That's great that you don't care. I hate to break it to you, other people do care, and some of those people have the power to change access to lots of places. No, this isn't a logic class, but it is the real world where people don't act in a vacuum and high profile people should have the decency to know how their actions affect the rest of us. The last thing we need is another Hueco.
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dingus
May 10, 2006, 9:23 PM
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In reply to: That's great that you don't care. I hate to break it to you, other people do care, and some of those people have the power to change access to lots of places. No, this isn't a logic class, but it is the real world
Here? On rc.com? Real world? If you say so...
In reply to: where people don't act in a vacuum
HERE??? ON RC.COM????
In reply to: and high profile people should have the decency to know how their actions affect the rest of us. The last thing we need is another Hueco.
Like I said the publicity angle, I'm with you. But I see no parallels to Hueco.
DMT
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tslater
May 10, 2006, 9:25 PM
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yeah, with every swing of the axe there is a consequence. And we don't live in a vacuum. I think we should focus on the action though, and not the individual.
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slcathena
May 10, 2006, 9:26 PM
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My point wasn't about RC.com. I really could care less what happens on a message board, my points were discussing the real world, and how actions affect people.
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yanqui
May 10, 2006, 9:32 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Let's just hope the NPS has the good sense to crack down on Potter and not anyone else. I think we can agree on this. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!! (that was a joke, right? I noticed that you are an expatriate... maybe you haven't been paying attention to what's been happening lately... the NPS could give a f--- who they trample as long as they don't chase away the RV's and snowmobilers. These imbeciles are of a piece with the HUD secretary that canceled a contract because the provider was unhappy with Bush -- they don't seem to understand that their job is to serve the American people, *NOT* some f---ing chimp in the White House who changes every 4-8 years.) Anyways, I'm off to climb Shiprock and sell some photos of my highline on it!
Not that I wanna hijack all the wonderful goose-steppin going on (Dingus excluded), BUT ....
as an interesting aside, I recently read an article in the Washington Post about how the USDA (you know, the Forest Service) is getting the message from above that they need to start painting rosy pictures of the Iraq occupation in their official USDA announcements:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...AR2006050700898.html
In reply to: Now, you might still be scratching your heads, trying to figure out how this is going to work when people expect a talk about agriculture issues. Not to worry. The attachments -- which can be viewed at http://www.washingtonpost.com/fedpage -- show how easy it is to work a little Iraq happy talk into just about anything. There's a sample introduction: "Several topics I'd like to talk about today -- Farm Bill, trade with Japan, WTO, avian flu . . . but before I do, let me touch on a subject people always ask about . . . progress in Iraq." See? Smooth as silk. So then you talk about how "we are helping the Iraqi people build a lasting democracy that is peaceful and prosperous." If it looks like the audience is with you, try to slip in the old Iraq/al-Qaeda/terrorism link and say Americans are helping build a country "that will never again be a safe haven for terrorists." |
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sidepull
May 10, 2006, 10:00 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Sponsored athletes, by virtue of being sponsored do have more impact on their sports and how people perceive the people that participate in the sport. This isn't a debate in a logic class. I'm telling you I don't give a damn about Potter's image or role model, not positive, not negative. I DO NOT CARE.
Sorry - I wasn't trying to bowl you over with logic, I was admitting that my argument had holes but that it was part of my rationale and I was simply trying to understand yours.
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roy_hinkley_jr
May 10, 2006, 10:31 PM
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Potter can lie his ass off about not knowing it was off limits all he wants. Only a moron buys that argument. So nice of him to say he won't violate the "new" regulations because they were so different from the "old." :roll:
The story was reported by AP this morning and has now been printed with the photo in dozens of newspapers all over the country. Google News is showing it places like Houston, San Diego, Seattle, Atlanta, plus London, Australia, etc.
Great job Dean! Way to get yourself international attention. Thanks for exposing millions of people who otherwise couldn't care less to the antics of climbers. Perhaps you can score a book contract and movie deal out of this, hot damn. No doubt, Climbing will run it as a cover story for the September issue, perfectly timed for OR. Great way to sell more magazines. Unless Outside outbids them. Yep, Potter is sure a climber to admire.
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paulj
May 10, 2006, 10:32 PM
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From the Access Fund:
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
May 10, 2006
Contact:
Robb Shurr, Access Fund
robb@accessfund.org
303.545.6772 x100
Access Fund Condemns Delicate Arch, UT Climb
A recent ascent of Delicate Arch in Utah’s Arches National Park has fueled a firestorm of media coverage and interest from federal land managers, politicians and the climbing community. See Park tweaks rules after Delicate Arch climb in the May 10 edition of the SALT LAKE TRIBUNE (http://www.sltrib.com/ci_3804296). Many individuals—both climbers and non-climbers—have expressed outrage at this event, and the climb has received both statewide and national media attention.
The Access Fund does not condone the climb of Delicate Arch and the actions of this individual are not representative of the climbing community.
The Access Fund supports justifiable climbing restrictions which protect natural and cultural resources and works towards effective and reasonable climbing management policies is cooperation with land managers and the greater climbing community. This process of discussion limits unnecessary restrictions, results in climbing management policies based on mutual agreement, and helps to ensure cooperation and effective enforcement of climbing policies.
We trust the public will understand that the actions of one person should not condemn the larger community of climbers who are equally appalled by this event. The Access Fund urges all climbers to recognize and limit the impacts of their climbing practices on the environment and other users of the land and to respect existing closures. If questionable restrictions arise, climbing advocacy efforts opposing such unreasonable restrictions should follow proper administrative procedures.
Climbers pride ourselves on respect for the environment and the Access Fund’s stewardship efforts around the country speak directly to the greater climbing public taking responsibility for climbing resources.
Policy Questions: contact Jason Keith, jason@accessfund.org
Media inquiries: contact Robb Shurr, robb@accessfund.org
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Deleted
May 10, 2006, 11:14 PM
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In reply to: For his next feat, Potter has announced that he will scale Washington's nose at Mt. Rushmore.... L
http://www.npr.org/.../gmartinez_large.jpg
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sidepull
May 10, 2006, 11:54 PM
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doubt he'll be happy if he feels vibrations climbing Washington's nose - "tectonic sneeze coming right up!"
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ccox
May 11, 2006, 12:37 AM
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Dean Potter is a narcissist, just like his wife. They can't go climbing without a photographer to capture their insignificant feats of self-promotion on film, for example - Astroman, Salathe free. They must think they are the chosen ones, and we all should be in awe. I don't really give a shit about the rules he broke in Arches, but I'd sure enjoy seeing his image in a courtroom. Would he still look around to be sure the cameras were aimed at him?
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slablizard
May 11, 2006, 12:50 AM
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Wow guys....so much for climber's camraderie eh?
Yes he broke the law climbing there, did you ever broke the law yourself?
He left chalkmarks, they'll be gone with the first rain, if a flock of birds would have covered the arch in poop it would have been worst I guess. But no one would complain about that.
He didn't bolted the arch, he free soloed it...I think you're exxagerating a bit here.
I am sure that someone like Potter considered all the danger and damage involved in a feat like this. AS I am sure he did all he could to avoid any damage.
Was he right? Probably not, but he's still a climber,
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djoseph
May 11, 2006, 1:03 AM
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Not sure if this has been posted already, but off the AP wires (http://news.yahoo.com/...arches_park_climbing
In reply to: Climber Dean Potter scaled Delicate Arch, the soaring desert symbol of southern Utah. Now, the National Park Service wants to make sure he doesn't do it again. Arches National Park on Tuesday announced a tightening of its rules on climbing after Potter announced with photographs and video that he made an unassisted climb of the arch just after daybreak Sunday. Arches Park Superintendent Laura Joss said she reported Potter's climb to the Interior Department's chief lawyers, and park rangers were investigating whether Potter did any damage to the arch. Joss said she was rewriting the rules to ban climbing of any named arches or natural bridges in the park. The new rules took effect Tuesday and were posted prominently on the park's Web site, http://www.nps.gov/arch. Potter said he will not violate them. Potter said he didn't know of any other climber going to the top, but didn't take credit for a first ascent. "I would think somebody a hundred years ago figured out a way to get up, maybe with ladders and rope," said Potter, a 34-year-old professional climber. "It's only 70 feet tall." |
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potreroed
May 11, 2006, 1:30 AM
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Having quietly poached a few illegal routes myself, all I can say is that it's too bad he didn't do this a a true solo, without the photographers and publicity.
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