Re 1904climber: I would ask people working in the gym if I had absolutely no idea about what the inside grades map to outside. They'll give a ballpark estimate, like recreational=below V grade, intermediate=v0-v1, advanced=v2-vwhatever, open=vwhatever+1

Re Jay: My gut says that it's better to have gym and outside grades use a different scale because the two are just different enough and it symbolizes that only outside climbing is real. Anecdotal evidence: search for "best bouldering gym in the US" and you get The Spot in Boulder. They give 1 to 5 dots/spots to their problems.

I agree with setting problems for beginner climbers.

I started going to a climbing gym with a friend in 2006 and as a poor college student with too many hobbies already I didn’t see it through. I found that the routes were too hard and after working one out for 30 min. my forearms/grip was shot. *For all you nay sayers try to remember your grip limitations as a beginner*
After a handful of visits i counldt justify spending the $7 to climb a couple of rainbow'd routes. After all $7 was the difference of a burger + beer vs ramen noodles. Anyway, I just never saw the appeal *Read-busting your ass just to be able to pull yourself up a wall of plastic* and my other hobbies + chasing girls was just... more rewarding.
So fast-forward 4.5yrs I have not so much free time, a decent job, a great girl, and a desperate need to reach out for something that offers freedom and now.... I get it.
I get on the wall and everything disappears its just me and the problem. Its not the adrenaline rush that movies like cliff hanger told me I was supposed to be getting. Its not chest pumping while one-uping the boys. Its about the discipline and focus. Its about problem solving and that feeling when you "get it right" This is the shit we are made of and its been stripped out of modern society.
So to get back to the OP, I wish I would have gotten it in the beginning. I think jug routes could be the proverbial carrot that many need.
As far as the proposed ratings system...Implement it where you can. If its good it will catch on. Think of it like evolution. The first step is variation.
Edit: I didnt mean to say we are made of shit ha

Re 1904climber: I would ask people working in the gym if I had absolutely no idea about what the inside grades map to outside. They'll give a ballpark estimate, like recreational=below V grade, intermediate=v0-v1, advanced=v2-vwhatever, open=vwhatever+1

Re Jay: My gut says that it's better to have gym and outside grades use a different scale because the two are just different enough and it symbolizes that only outside climbing is real. Anecdotal evidence: search for "best bouldering gym in the US" and you get The Spot in Boulder. They give 1 to 5 dots/spots to their problems.

1) Why bother mapping indoor grades to outdoor grades? That's not the purpose of grades indoors, as far as I'm concerned. Grades outdoors vary from region to region, so a gym's indoor ratings should focus on being consistent within the gym. If it generally matches up to the local region, then that's great, but not necessary.

2) By saying "whatever" you really made arguing for your rating system easier on yourself. Does V5/V6 and V10 fall into the same category? Sure looks like it does. Does that make sense? Hardly.


You still haven't answered how they're different. You mentioned that outdoors there's more freedom, in comparison to taped indoor routes. How exactly does that mean that grading should become less sensitive (i.e., changing from 17 grades (V0-v16) to four our five)?

Your statement that the holds are made out of plastic does make any sense to use as an argument as to why grades shouldn't be used in gyms.

"It symbolizes that only outdoor climbing is real"? What? You do realize that like 85% of this site doesn't even think that outdoor bouldering is real climbing either, right?

1. Some rough mapping is needed for reasons that spikeddem mentioned. All you need to know is the general V grade equivalent and whether the area you climb outside is soft or hard.

2. I said "whatever" because I haven't sent the hardest Advanced boulder problems, so I haven't the slightest clue.

If you agree that bouldering is a valid form of climbing then you'll agree that doing it outside on real rock is the real thing.

The Spot has the best bouldering because of the quality of the problems they set, not because of the stupid rating system. If they used V grades, they would still have the best bouldering.

Also, you will find precious few VB boulder problems there. If you don't want to just spend all your time climbing up the downclimbs that are the designated descents off the boulders, you'd better learn a thing or two pretty fast.

And you think climbing something labeled "V0" is embarrassing, try fighting with the stream of climbers coming down off a boulder just to get up your "problem". There's some encouragement to get better.

I've only been to The Spot once, but a V0 roughly corresponded to 3 dots iirc. I remember seeing plenty of problems below that.

Unless they go up to like 10-15 dots, I find that pretty unlikely that you're recalling the situation correctly.

Well, you haven't been there so you'll just have to trust me on that. They go up to 5 dots.

Well, you haven't been there so you'll just have to trust me on that. They go up to 5 dots.

Actually, you don't have to trust him and no he is not recalling correctly. According to The Spot's website: http://spotsettingblog.wordpress.com/spot-grading-system/

3 spots is roughly equivalent to V2.

And to refer back to those who are crying out for 5.6 - 5.8 boulder problems, those are 1 and 1- spots. Those are few and far between at the Spot.

GO

Actually, you don't have to trust him and no he is not recalling correctly. According to The Spot's website: http://spotsettingblog.wordpress.com/spot-grading-system/

3 spots is roughly equivalent to V2.

And to refer back to those who are crying out for 5.6 - 5.8 boulder problems, those are 1 and 1- spots. Those are few and far between at the Spot.

Re 1904climber: I would ask people working in the gym if I had absolutely no idea about what the inside grades map to outside. They'll give a ballpark estimate, like recreational=below V grade, intermediate=v0-v1, advanced=v2-vwhatever, open=vwhatever+1

Does that really coincide with your experience climbing there ? I could clean 4- problems with a few tries, but I was nowhere near to doing a V4 when I climbed at HP40 or JTree. Or leading a 5.12 outside. Wish I was that good.

1904climber: There's nothing wrong with assigning grades to outdoor climbing/bouldering, since that's the real thing.

I asked you before. What in the world do you mean by this? What is "the real thing?" Why is it inherently legitimate to assign grades to this mystical "real thing" but not an equally contrived idea indoors?

I guess that's climbing philosophy; the way I view indoor and outdoor climbing differently. Did my example of bragging about the first 5.11, 5.12 or 5.13 you do outside but never inside not resonate with you ? Sorry but I cannot explain better.

The fact that a climb is indoor or outdoor has no effect on the softness or hardness of the grade. If you're pumped about achieving a grade, then you're excited about climbing something at a certain level of difficulty. Therefore, softness/hardness of the rating of the individual route is the important factor. There are soft ratings indoors, and there are sandbagged ratings indoors just the same.

i agree with you, but...
climbs indoors have little tags telling you where the next hold is. when you are outside there isn't anything telling you where to hold on. you gotta figure it out.

so unless the route setters take that into consideration a 5.12 in the gym is going to be easier than one outdoors. i know a few climbers that can climb a grade higher indoor than they can outdoor.

i agree with you, but...
climbs indoors have little tags telling you where the next hold is. when you are outside there isn't anything telling you where to hold on. you gotta figure it out.

so unless the route setters take that into consideration a 5.12 in the gym is going to be easier than one outdoors. i know a few climbers that can climb a grade higher indoor than they can outdoor.

i agree with you, but...
climbs indoors have little tags telling you where the next hold is. when you are outside there isn't anything telling you where to hold on. you gotta figure it out.

so unless the route setters take that into consideration a 5.12 in the gym is going to be easier than one outdoors. i know a few climbers that can climb a grade higher indoor than they can outdoor.